BB2220

Ok how are they trying? And adjustments in flying don't mean that they are trying to force anything work rule related.

I hardly see how it's UA fault that the work group hasn't even sent a proposal. There hasn't been much negotiation, so how can you come to the conclusion of what UA wants?

Always Flyin

Before the merger, 1K upgrades cleared. I didn't have to fly in Y, so I don't know what meals in Y were like.

Now 1Ks sit in the back 90% of the time. Not only do they sit in the back, when they are offered paid upgrades, it is for substantially more than the price offered to Kettles. Yeah, that inspires loyalty.

But UA doesn't give free meals in Y on domestic flights anyway. Now passengers get to buy them. Hard to see that as an improvement. If I am going to buy something, I'll buy it and bring it on the flight with me.

On international flights, I buy F and C. Again, I haven't had a Y meal in years.

This is my last post on the matter since you apparently don't want to do any research on your own.

UA has been taking punitive action against pmUA flight attendants to force them to accept pmCO work rules in the new contract. Management has laid off pmUA flight attendants while at the same time hiring new pmCO flight attendants.

There are very good reasons why pmUA flight attendants are extraordinarily angry at current management. In all fairness, I haven't seen a lot of willingness of the pmUA flight attendants to compromise, but I can say that about all three parties. It is the pmUA flight attendants who are taking the brunt of that, however, as management wants pmCO work rules.

You can do further research on your own.

BearX220

Hey, we're all angry at current management. But your post helps show the folly of Smisek's best-of-both-worlds, merger-of-equals, adopt-one-brand-now, sort-out-fine-print-later approach. Line employees still think it's two airlines quarreling under one brand. The company therefore pays an insane friction tax that cripples morale, efficiency, reliability, and in the end customer sat. Smisek pretty much has to say he doesn't care about those factors and wants to run UA like a freight company, because he has no levers to affect them.

When Delta did Northwest a lot of us Northwest customers felt bad about it but boy, they ripped the Band-Aid off all at once. It was a clear, unequivocal takeover of NW, albeit by ex-NW people. But you never saw a brand disappear so fast and that operation is healthy today. UA looks doomed in comparison.

sogboulder

Perhaps. As you said it's a grey area. Employers have, however, been sanctioned for taking action against employees for discussing "working conditions" (even publicly on social media), and this rant may well have fallen into that category.

nikolastojsin

A couple of points:

1. I agree with everything the FA said in her rant - but, as a customer, I do not care to hear it from an FA (or anyone else) while flying;

2. If an employee feels that badly about his of her employer, it is time for separation, voluntary or involuntary - it can only benefit everybody involved.

3. Can anyone imagine similar rants from FAs working for another airline? Global airline? Say, LH (which has a strong union, by the way)? Ummm, no.

4. PmCO vs pmUA vs Management as a group are having a multi-year spat over petty issues like work rules while the airline is visibly faltering? Good job, everyone.

5. I do not think UA can survive another summer of 2000, if that is what this is. (How is that - let us hurt our employer to make our jobs better?)

For what is worth, my recent UA experiences have led me to look elsewhere - and to a firm belief that the whole US airline industry needs a serious jolt. Removing restrictions on foreign ownership may provide such a jolt.

SJC ORD LDR

I had something similar happen on an OO flight where the 2 FAs were in the galley complaining about how DL was no longer paying OO by block time and they were flying slower to ensure they won't be early. Then they went off on a bunch of other topics that were not work related. I wrote it in.

If it's unprofessional and you didn't ask a question to get that response, write it in.

zombietooth

Yes I can.

I was in F on LH 465 a couple of months ago, and the FAs were complaining about LH management, unfair scheduling, greedy corporations, etc.

They knew we were American, didn't know that I spoke German, and there were only 4 of us in the cabin, in the first two rows-far away from them in the galley, so I don't believe they thought that they would be overheard.

Nonetheless, it didn't bother me at all. I would rather know what someone really thinks than to be fed politically correct pablum continually, and their service was impeccable. And no, I never considered ratting them out to management.

PsiFighter37

I'm of two minds of this: yes, it's an unprofessional thing to do; on the other hand, I have blown off steam about work plenty when I've been at work (getting coffee, etc.) - the FAs don't really have anywhere else to go.

Either way, I don't think they were necessarily saying anything that FTers / generally frequent flyers would disagree about with any real vehemence.

Always Flyin

Petty to you. Their life and livelihood to them.

While I agree the flight attendants should not be discussing such things in front of passengers, with espoused attitudes like this, I can see why they couldn't care less if passengers overhear them or not.

FlightNurse

Reading this brought back memories of a flight on CO, EWR-PHX when the lead FA sat in the jump seat the entire flight and did nothing, and truly mean nothing but complain about her job to the poor junior FA serving F, and how horrible it was working with the public, and yes, she was loud enough for all in F to hear her.

I get the frustration but to really sit in front of a group of people and complain is so unprofessional beyond belief.

BearX220

I heard it on CO in the old days. Heard it on NW in spades circa 1996-99, when the troops were extremely unhappy. I've heard plenty of galley snark about Waterside on BA. I've been hearing it on UA for decades nonstop, except for a brief period post-9/11, pre-BK when they tried to pull themselves together.

Airline workers love to complain about management, often in public. There's probably no more emotion-driven workforce except maybe restaurant chefs.

nikolastojsin

What I was trying to say is that FAs livelihood really depends on their employer staying in business and being successful - and, if you have not noticed, I have included management on the list (who I blame the most, incidentally). And I am not disagreeing with you that stakes are high - that is exactly why differences are petty in comparison. In the three-way zero-sum game that they are now playing, everyone can only lose.

As for complaining in front of passengers, that just reinforces the bad mojo UA currently has in spades...

KRSW

If the FA's on the clock, then her mouth needs to be shut. Period. UA's paying her to be a company representative. Tow the company line, or at least have a clever "no comment" line. Why would pax want to fly on an airline where employees are unhappy. Usually such discontent manifests itself in poor service. The FA, is essentially shooting them self in the foot. If pax choose another airline over UA, then they stand to lose their jobs/shifts when demand drops for UA flights.

Now, if the FA is off the clock, like the hotel bar, that's a different story in my book. I still expect the employee to be somewhat respectful, but at the same time if they're clearly blowing off steam I don't think it should be taken too seriously or count against them.

We stopped flying UA as of last month, mainly due to the increase of IRROPs and even worse handling of pax by UA when IRROPs happens. I can't point to a specific UA FA or in-flight crew I've flown with and say they were terrible, but very few stand out as excellent either. In contrast I have multiple positive memories of FAs/FOs I've flown with on DL/B6 where I thought they went above and beyond. I know of a B6 employee who found an iPad left on a plane, drove to the Apple store, got the owner's name, compared it to the flight manifest and was able to reunite the iPad with its owner. You don't get that with UA.

Always Flyin

Why would an airline want to develop an environment where its employees are so unhappy?

When an employee is not at work, they are free to say WHATEVER they want as long as they are not disclosing any confidential trade secrets (like flight attendants are privy to any in any event).

So employee attitude didn't matter anyway. The airline itself gave you enough other reasons to leave . . .

gobluetwo

Would you be okay with one of your employees badmouthing your company in front of customers/clients, even if he had a legitimate gripe about his situation?

While one may be free to say (or post to social media) whatever they like, the company is also well within its right to take action against said employee based on those off-the-clock comments. It has happened many times in the past, and will continue to happen. If this particular FA wants to keep her job as it is today, it would be prudent of her to show more discretion in front of her customers.