Flight Attendant Rant
#61
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 261
You missed the word "trying."
See post 56, and do a search. There has been a lot of information posted on this already.
pmCO flight attendants and current management like the pmCO work rules because the flight attendants earn more and are more productive.
pmUA make less, but have more flexibility in their work rules.
No one is trying to reach a compromise. Some of the obstinance is evident in this thread and others.
At the end of the day, it is the passengers who suffer the most.
See post 56, and do a search. There has been a lot of information posted on this already.
pmCO flight attendants and current management like the pmCO work rules because the flight attendants earn more and are more productive.
pmUA make less, but have more flexibility in their work rules.
No one is trying to reach a compromise. Some of the obstinance is evident in this thread and others.
At the end of the day, it is the passengers who suffer the most.
I hardly see how it's UA fault that the work group hasn't even sent a proposal. There hasn't been much negotiation, so how can you come to the conclusion of what UA wants?
#62
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
Now 1Ks sit in the back 90% of the time. Not only do they sit in the back, when they are offered paid upgrades, it is for substantially more than the price offered to Kettles. Yeah, that inspires loyalty.
But UA doesn't give free meals in Y on domestic flights anyway. Now passengers get to buy them. Hard to see that as an improvement. If I am going to buy something, I'll buy it and bring it on the flight with me.
On international flights, I buy F and C. Again, I haven't had a Y meal in years.
UA has been taking punitive action against pmUA flight attendants to force them to accept pmCO work rules in the new contract. Management has laid off pmUA flight attendants while at the same time hiring new pmCO flight attendants.
There are very good reasons why pmUA flight attendants are extraordinarily angry at current management. In all fairness, I haven't seen a lot of willingness of the pmUA flight attendants to compromise, but I can say that about all three parties. It is the pmUA flight attendants who are taking the brunt of that, however, as management wants pmCO work rules.
You can do further research on your own.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jun 30, 2015 at 8:51 pm Reason: merging consecutive posts by same member - pleae use multi-quote
#63
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: ORD/MDW
Programs: BA/AA/AS/B6/WN/ UA/HH/MR and more like 'em but most felicitously & importantly MUCCI
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UA has been taking punitive action against pmUA flight attendants to force them to accept pmCO work rules in the new contract. Management has laid off pmUA flight attendants while at the same time hiring new pmCO flight attendants.
There are very good reasons why pmUA flight attendants are extraordinarily angry at current management.
There are very good reasons why pmUA flight attendants are extraordinarily angry at current management.
When Delta did Northwest a lot of us Northwest customers felt bad about it but boy, they ripped the Band-Aid off all at once. It was a clear, unequivocal takeover of NW, albeit by ex-NW people. But you never saw a brand disappear so fast and that operation is healthy today. UA looks doomed in comparison.
#64
Join Date: Jan 2013
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 304
There are some protections that the NLRA puts forward related to organizing and other protected activity. It is admittedly a grey area. But given this was a public space, and they were talking very loudly, and the items they were discussing had nothing to do with organizing, pay, etc, I tend to think this would not be covered and the offending FA could be punished. Given that Delta baggage handler who was fired last December for doing MUCH less that what this FA did, I would say they at least are at high risk if UA wanted to take action.
#65
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1K, GE/Nexus, Marriott Gold
Posts: 266
A couple of points:
1. I agree with everything the FA said in her rant - but, as a customer, I do not care to hear it from an FA (or anyone else) while flying;
2. If an employee feels that badly about his of her employer, it is time for separation, voluntary or involuntary - it can only benefit everybody involved.
3. Can anyone imagine similar rants from FAs working for another airline? Global airline? Say, LH (which has a strong union, by the way)? Ummm, no.
4. PmCO vs pmUA vs Management as a group are having a multi-year spat over petty issues like work rules while the airline is visibly faltering? Good job, everyone.
5. I do not think UA can survive another summer of 2000, if that is what this is. (How is that - let us hurt our employer to make our jobs better?)
For what is worth, my recent UA experiences have led me to look elsewhere - and to a firm belief that the whole US airline industry needs a serious jolt. Removing restrictions on foreign ownership may provide such a jolt.
1. I agree with everything the FA said in her rant - but, as a customer, I do not care to hear it from an FA (or anyone else) while flying;
2. If an employee feels that badly about his of her employer, it is time for separation, voluntary or involuntary - it can only benefit everybody involved.
3. Can anyone imagine similar rants from FAs working for another airline? Global airline? Say, LH (which has a strong union, by the way)? Ummm, no.
4. PmCO vs pmUA vs Management as a group are having a multi-year spat over petty issues like work rules while the airline is visibly faltering? Good job, everyone.
5. I do not think UA can survive another summer of 2000, if that is what this is. (How is that - let us hurt our employer to make our jobs better?)
For what is worth, my recent UA experiences have led me to look elsewhere - and to a firm belief that the whole US airline industry needs a serious jolt. Removing restrictions on foreign ownership may provide such a jolt.
#66
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: SJC
Programs: DL PM MM, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 3,276
I had something similar happen on an OO flight where the 2 FAs were in the galley complaining about how DL was no longer paying OO by block time and they were flying slower to ensure they won't be early. Then they went off on a bunch of other topics that were not work related. I wrote it in.
If it's unprofessional and you didn't ask a question to get that response, write it in.
If it's unprofessional and you didn't ask a question to get that response, write it in.
#67
Join Date: Oct 2009
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton ♦ , Hyatt Carbonado, Wyndham ♦, Marriott PE, "Stinking Bum" elsewhere.
Posts: 4,986
I was in F on LH 465 a couple of months ago, and the FAs were complaining about LH management, unfair scheduling, greedy corporations, etc.
They knew we were American, didn't know that I spoke German, and there were only 4 of us in the cabin, in the first two rows-far away from them in the galley, so I don't believe they thought that they would be overheard.
Nonetheless, it didn't bother me at all. I would rather know what someone really thinks than to be fed politically correct pablum continually, and their service was impeccable. And no, I never considered ratting them out to management.
#68
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: NYC (Primarily EWR)
Programs: UA 1K / *G, Marriott Bonvoy Gold; Avis PC
Posts: 8,994
I'm of two minds of this: yes, it's an unprofessional thing to do; on the other hand, I have blown off steam about work plenty when I've been at work (getting coffee, etc.) - the FAs don't really have anywhere else to go.
Either way, I don't think they were necessarily saying anything that FTers / generally frequent flyers would disagree about with any real vehemence.
Either way, I don't think they were necessarily saying anything that FTers / generally frequent flyers would disagree about with any real vehemence.
#69
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
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Posts: 8,745
While I agree the flight attendants should not be discussing such things in front of passengers, with espoused attitudes like this, I can see why they couldn't care less if passengers overhear them or not.
Last edited by goalie; Jun 30, 2015 at 6:38 pm Reason: Perdonalized comment towards another member removed
#70
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Flying today on an A319 and seated in 1F. Throughout taxi and takeoff the FA in the jump seat closer to the door was loudly voicing her opinion of all things wrong with UA to her colleague. I felt bad that she was so upset but don't think that passengers should have had to listen to it. Some of the highlights:
*Repeatedly saying that Jeff was an [expletive] idiot and that he ruined UA.
*Complaining that PS would no longer be out of JFK and that EWR was in NJ and that no one wants to go there. She also said that B6 and DL are making $ on the route so UA was stupid to pull out.
*Discussing Goose Bay and how bad that was.
*Talking about the new menu as "the garbage we shove in front of them"
*Discussing the "Chairman's Route" and how someone should go to jail for that.
*Talking about how the aircraft are not properly maintained and that they look bad.
And the list went on and on and on. The biggest surprises for me were the amount of profanity and the number of times she called out the CEO. The skies around the jumpseat were anything but friendly this AM.
*Repeatedly saying that Jeff was an [expletive] idiot and that he ruined UA.
*Complaining that PS would no longer be out of JFK and that EWR was in NJ and that no one wants to go there. She also said that B6 and DL are making $ on the route so UA was stupid to pull out.
*Discussing Goose Bay and how bad that was.
*Talking about the new menu as "the garbage we shove in front of them"
*Discussing the "Chairman's Route" and how someone should go to jail for that.
*Talking about how the aircraft are not properly maintained and that they look bad.
And the list went on and on and on. The biggest surprises for me were the amount of profanity and the number of times she called out the CEO. The skies around the jumpseat were anything but friendly this AM.
I get the frustration but to really sit in front of a group of people and complain is so unprofessional beyond belief.
#71
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Join Date: Jul 1999
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Airline workers love to complain about management, often in public. There's probably no more emotion-driven workforce except maybe restaurant chefs.
#72
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: NYC
Programs: UA 1K, GE/Nexus, Marriott Gold
Posts: 266
As for complaining in front of passengers, that just reinforces the bad mojo UA currently has in spades...
#73
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Somewhere in Florida
Posts: 2,614
If the FA's on the clock, then her mouth needs to be shut. Period. UA's paying her to be a company representative. Tow the company line, or at least have a clever "no comment" line. Why would pax want to fly on an airline where employees are unhappy. Usually such discontent manifests itself in poor service. The FA, is essentially shooting them self in the foot. If pax choose another airline over UA, then they stand to lose their jobs/shifts when demand drops for UA flights.
Now, if the FA is off the clock, like the hotel bar, that's a different story in my book. I still expect the employee to be somewhat respectful, but at the same time if they're clearly blowing off steam I don't think it should be taken too seriously or count against them.
We stopped flying UA as of last month, mainly due to the increase of IRROPs and even worse handling of pax by UA when IRROPs happens. I can't point to a specific UA FA or in-flight crew I've flown with and say they were terrible, but very few stand out as excellent either. In contrast I have multiple positive memories of FAs/FOs I've flown with on DL/B6 where I thought they went above and beyond. I know of a B6 employee who found an iPad left on a plane, drove to the Apple store, got the owner's name, compared it to the flight manifest and was able to reunite the iPad with its owner. You don't get that with UA.
Now, if the FA is off the clock, like the hotel bar, that's a different story in my book. I still expect the employee to be somewhat respectful, but at the same time if they're clearly blowing off steam I don't think it should be taken too seriously or count against them.
We stopped flying UA as of last month, mainly due to the increase of IRROPs and even worse handling of pax by UA when IRROPs happens. I can't point to a specific UA FA or in-flight crew I've flown with and say they were terrible, but very few stand out as excellent either. In contrast I have multiple positive memories of FAs/FOs I've flown with on DL/B6 where I thought they went above and beyond. I know of a B6 employee who found an iPad left on a plane, drove to the Apple store, got the owner's name, compared it to the flight manifest and was able to reunite the iPad with its owner. You don't get that with UA.
Last edited by goalie; Jul 1, 2015 at 1:32 pm Reason: replaced quasi-offensive term
#74
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
Why would an airline want to develop an environment where its employees are so unhappy?
When an employee is not at work, they are free to say WHATEVER they want as long as they are not disclosing any confidential trade secrets (like flight attendants are privy to any in any event).
So employee attitude didn't matter anyway. The airline itself gave you enough other reasons to leave . . .
So employee attitude didn't matter anyway. The airline itself gave you enough other reasons to leave . . .
Last edited by goalie; Jul 1, 2015 at 1:33 pm Reason: comment removed as quoted post edited to remove quoting reference
#75
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: gggrrrovvveee (ORD)
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Posts: 6,091
Originally Posted by Always Flyin
When an employee is not at work, they are free to say WHATEVER they want as long as they are not disclosing any confidential trade secrets (like flight attendants are privy to any in any event).