What happened to UA's flagship hub, IAH?
Jun 18, 2015, 10:07 am
#61
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Jun 18, 2015, 10:29 am
#62
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"Flagship" typically means it's the most important piece of a network (a ship in naval terms), usually carrying the commander as well.
With the volume of flights and passengers that pass through O'Hare on UA, and that fact that HQ is in Chicago, it's pretty easy to say this is the flagship. It's a major connection point for many flights within the US and internationally.
Flagship has nothing to do with the best airport or the favorite. It would be pretty far down the list of my favorite UA hubs, with SFO at the top and EWR at the bottom. I'd rather hang out at IAH than ORD, but that's not the point.
Jun 18, 2015, 11:06 am
#63
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As someone pointed out earlier, is the carts. Absolutely hate those. There are big airports elsewhere, but you don't see as many. Last week, walking between E and C, I counted FOUR in a row. When the drivers yell, "cart please," I have taken to informing them "you don't have right of way." I'm not sure if that is true or not, but I am just sick of the carts.
Jun 18, 2015, 11:07 am
#64
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A number of things have changed.
1. Continental employees used to work for a company they loved. Now most of them hate it. United can put all the food they want on the airplanes and lounges, they can add as much wifi as they like and entertainment galore. They will still come last in every metric until they fix the employee problem. The employee problem stretches across both companies equally.
2. Houston used to be proud of their hometown airline. Most now think United is terrible. No one is proud of an association with United now.
3. After investing billions on developing a new International Terminal E with all new customs and immigration facilities, as well as an agreement with Houston Council that Intercontinental airport would be the only international airport in Houston, The Council reversed course and opened Houston Hobby up for International travel and granted international access for Southwest airlines. United saw this more or less as Houston declaring war on them, and have ramped down development in Houston significantly since that time.
All of these things are part of the problem.
1. Continental employees used to work for a company they loved. Now most of them hate it. United can put all the food they want on the airplanes and lounges, they can add as much wifi as they like and entertainment galore. They will still come last in every metric until they fix the employee problem. The employee problem stretches across both companies equally.
2. Houston used to be proud of their hometown airline. Most now think United is terrible. No one is proud of an association with United now.
3. After investing billions on developing a new International Terminal E with all new customs and immigration facilities, as well as an agreement with Houston Council that Intercontinental airport would be the only international airport in Houston, The Council reversed course and opened Houston Hobby up for International travel and granted international access for Southwest airlines. United saw this more or less as Houston declaring war on them, and have ramped down development in Houston significantly since that time.
All of these things are part of the problem.
Jun 18, 2015, 11:18 am
#65
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IAH has a Whataburger in Terminal B. I'll choose a layover there just for that!
Jun 18, 2015, 11:22 am
#66
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1. The employee problem is spot on. Staffing shortages leading to stress and grumpiness, an sUA unreliable operation, and a general feeling that they are there to serve their wall street masters prevails. Who will want to fly UA if their employees do not want to work there?
Let's not go there. Most of the changes were sCO changes foreced down sUA employees and flyers.
Recently the changes are more pro sUA as the pro sCO changes were bombs and dragged this airline down.
Jun 18, 2015, 11:39 am
#67
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sUA unreliable operations?? Really?? What about the antique computer systems, the awful public criticsm that sCO management had on sUA employees?
Let's not go there. Most of the changes were sCO changes foreced down sUA employees and flyers.
Recently the changes are more pro sUA as the pro sCO changes were bombs and dragged this airline down.
Let's not go there. Most of the changes were sCO changes foreced down sUA employees and flyers.
Recently the changes are more pro sUA as the pro sCO changes were bombs and dragged this airline down.
You'd think that (based on history) at ex-CO hubs there would be a certain caliber and professionalism when it comes to customer service. Every time I've been to EWR or IAH I've encountered surliness and attitude problems. With EWR this was a problem when they were CO back in the 1990s, but at IAH it's been worse since the merger.
No doubt CO changes have come to UA for everyone to digest. Some sCO employees have too much pride and/or ignorance to realize this but it's true. It's why for me I avoid UA as much as possible because pre-merger CO was lousy from an operational and customer service standpoint.
But back to IAH, employee bitterness probably has more to do with IAH losing the name and HQ to ORD than anything else. Not much has changed there day to day except for signage.
Jun 18, 2015, 11:57 am
#68
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1. The employee problem is spot on. Staffing shortages leading to stress and grumpiness, an sUA unreliable operation, and a general feeling that they are there to serve their wall street masters prevails. Who will want to fly UA if their employees do not want to work there?
CO and UA both had far better operations than the combined entity, so it's entirely disingenuous, false, and bias to say that we are at "sUA unreliable operation" levels.
Jun 18, 2015, 12:37 pm
#69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by halls120
Calling IAH the "flagship" hub is a joke. SFO and ORD deserve that title far more than IAH.
+1
Assuming you can only have one flagship, I'd vote ORD. And it has nothing to do with the fact it's my home airport. I would say SFO is my favorite in the network, and a close 2nd as the flagship.
If we must have a title for IAH, how about the "Gateway to South America"?
Originally Posted by halls120
Calling IAH the "flagship" hub is a joke. SFO and ORD deserve that title far more than IAH.
+1
Assuming you can only have one flagship, I'd vote ORD. And it has nothing to do with the fact it's my home airport. I would say SFO is my favorite in the network, and a close 2nd as the flagship.
If we must have a title for IAH, how about the "Gateway to South America"?
I wish OZ took it a bit more serious wrt pilot staffing but that is a tangent.
Jun 18, 2015, 12:46 pm
#70
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SFO is also more vital to other airlines (think all the Asian and S Pacific) than even ORD. and of course the size of CA's economy. which I think tips things to SFO if only can pick one as THE ONE.
I wish OZ took it a bit more serious wrt pilot staffing but that is a tangent.
I wish OZ took it a bit more serious wrt pilot staffing but that is a tangent.
Jun 18, 2015, 12:48 pm
#71
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I was IAH-based for a while pre-merger and through the beginning of the merger (which is one reason I cheerleaded the merger - something I now greatly regret). Of course, this is when the OP last said he was there and liked the airport, so who knows what's changed - but honestly, I thought IAH was a good airport. Good food options, quick through CBP (in my experience, anyway), and I never thought it was that crowded. The only real negative was lack of people movers. (Although probably still better than DEN even with people movers.)
IAH also has very convenient parking options available for frequent travelers, which is a huge plus in my book. Before they closed the alternative security on the E Gates side and introduced PreCheck (does that make it the pre-PreCheck days?), I could be from my car to security in less than one minute.
IAH also has very convenient parking options available for frequent travelers, which is a huge plus in my book. Before they closed the alternative security on the E Gates side and introduced PreCheck (does that make it the pre-PreCheck days?), I could be from my car to security in less than one minute.
Jun 18, 2015, 4:01 pm
#72
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There are also 747's. When you have as many flights out of an airport as UA does, you're going to see every aircraft (except the 787).
"Flagship" typically means it's the most important piece of a network (a ship in naval terms), usually carrying the commander as well.
With the volume of flights and passengers that pass through O'Hare on UA, and that fact that HQ is in Chicago, it's pretty easy to say this is the flagship. It's a major connection point for many flights within the US and internationally.
"Flagship" typically means it's the most important piece of a network (a ship in naval terms), usually carrying the commander as well.
With the volume of flights and passengers that pass through O'Hare on UA, and that fact that HQ is in Chicago, it's pretty easy to say this is the flagship. It's a major connection point for many flights within the US and internationally.
Code:
carrier | origin | flights | seats | asm | types ---------+--------+---------+-------+----------+------- UA | ORD | 563 | 50431 | 57924742 | 16 UA | IAH | 538 | 51933 | 62512280 | 17 UA | EWR | 389 | 41264 | 76583079 | 16 UA | DEN | 380 | 34650 | 31531894 | 17 UA | SFO | 293 | 33476 | 66366424 | 17 UA | IAD | 227 | 20823 | 36696364 | 18 UA | LAX | 159 | 18049 | 33885354 | 15
Code:
carrier | origin | flights | seats | asm | types ---------+--------+---------+-------+----------+------- UA | IAH | 225 | 34146 | 51817142 | 12 UA | ORD | 214 | 30947 | 48174628 | 10 UA | EWR | 190 | 30308 | 70995102 | 10 UA | SFO | 170 | 27280 | 62846065 | 13 UA | DEN | 155 | 21675 | 24098327 | 9 UA | LAX | 96 | 14894 | 31977938 | 11 UA | IAD | 78 | 12831 | 33206087 | 10
In light of all that I wouldn't say it's easy to say ORD is the flagship.
Jun 18, 2015, 4:44 pm
#73
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UA+UAX average daily flights/seats/asm and distinct aircraft types for the next year:
UA mainline only:
So ORD has the most flights, but IAH has the most seats, EWR has the most asm, IAH has the most mainline flights, IAH has the most mainline seats, and EWR has the most mainline asm. 4 hubs have more types than ORD and 3 hubs have more mainline types than ORD.
In light of all that I wouldn't say it's easy to say ORD is the flagship.
Code:
carrier | origin | flights | seats | asm | types ---------+--------+---------+-------+----------+------- UA | ORD | 563 | 50431 | 57924742 | 16 UA | IAH | 538 | 51933 | 62512280 | 17 UA | EWR | 389 | 41264 | 76583079 | 16 UA | DEN | 380 | 34650 | 31531894 | 17 UA | SFO | 293 | 33476 | 66366424 | 17 UA | IAD | 227 | 20823 | 36696364 | 18 UA | LAX | 159 | 18049 | 33885354 | 15
Code:
carrier | origin | flights | seats | asm | types ---------+--------+---------+-------+----------+------- UA | IAH | 225 | 34146 | 51817142 | 12 UA | ORD | 214 | 30947 | 48174628 | 10 UA | EWR | 190 | 30308 | 70995102 | 10 UA | SFO | 170 | 27280 | 62846065 | 13 UA | DEN | 155 | 21675 | 24098327 | 9 UA | LAX | 96 | 14894 | 31977938 | 11 UA | IAD | 78 | 12831 | 33206087 | 10
In light of all that I wouldn't say it's easy to say ORD is the flagship.
By the way, I love the reports you pull and post on FT. Very helpful facts for these discussions! I wouldn't have thought that SFO had such a low volume without seeing the tables above.
Jun 18, 2015, 6:21 pm
#75
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I like connecting through IAH because of the KLM Crown Club but it is not a very attractive airport -- just like EWR and CLE.
SFO and ORD are my favorite UA hubs from an aesthetic perceptive.
Yes, IAD loses by a longshot, though the midfield immigration terminal is incredibly helpful and so, so much better IMO than ORD and even SFO.
SFO and ORD are my favorite UA hubs from an aesthetic perceptive.
Yes, IAD loses by a longshot, though the midfield immigration terminal is incredibly helpful and so, so much better IMO than ORD and even SFO.