PTahCha

UGH. Seriously.

The LA flights are already staffed with LAX-based crew, and many of the (now former) JFK-based crew are working on the int'l flights out of EWR instead of transcon or out of LGA. The general expectation is also having the new FA base in EWR once the contract is negotiated.

dparkinson

This is clearly a B6 reaction. You can't have a plane that's 28J and offer 1000$ RT J Seats and make a profit when you have no connecting feed. That said, it's not like PS flights ever went out with empty seats.

As for *A, I believe SN is the only European *A carrier that flies into JFK and not EWR. SAA is served at IAD if you need a west coast connection.

Adelphos

Surprised no one ever discusses VX when it comes to transcons. Their premium product is old, but a lot of SF tech companies are loyal to VX, and a lot of people fly those planes in economy. VX flies to both SFO/LAX from both EWR/JFK and isn't going away anytime soon, which will may keep rates down.

eefor jfp

Isn't the EWR-DUS flight going away with the closing of the LH base in Dusseldorf? in any case, all intra-European DUS flights are now operated by GermanWings/EuroWings except those to FRA and MUC. So what you've done several times (go via DUS) won't be possible in the future.

REPUBLIC757

In shock. This is quite dumb on a few different levels (IMHO):

1. Abandoning JFK and the traditional coast to coast market for HVF clientele -- particularly in LA where many are accustomed to flying into Kennedy, the premier NY airport (Sorry, EWR is just not. I'm from NJ and it's hard to defend that POS.)

2. Flooding the EWR-SFO/LAX with all those seats? LAX 15x, SFO 17x? I'm sorry, isn't UA is a mainline shortage? Why not just keep the frequencies down using all flatbed and use the mainline to continue to phase out ERJ? This approach is not going to last.

3. Part of the CO ignorance we've seen since day one of the merger. Fortress EWR is king, even though operationally it's a huge embarrassment. Just look at all the diversions yesterday.

4. Question on DL slots at EWR -- are these slots not used that DL is giving up at EWR? I'd hate for them to trim their schedules. They just started flying EWR-LHR!

red grenadine

I'm assuming most business travelers aren't subjecting themselves to the misery that is Penn Station and NJ Transit

Most people are taking black cars. You have basically one way off the island going west in the Lincoln Tunnel vs. multiple ways to get east

cerealmarketer

I'm not sure this is much of an increase out of EWR. They're doing about 15 a day to SFO and LAX now.

So 737s, Airbus aircraft get freed up for other routes.

I will miss the JFK station. Won't miss going to/from JFK.

keitherson

Because UA is far from a world class airline. Have you flown it recently? Every cabin has mediocre class of service, from Global First to Domestic First. They charged for alcohol on all international economy flights. The United Clubs are in a worse state than contract lounges outside of a few international locations.

red grenadine

Biz class PS passengers are not taking the Airtrain and NJ Transit to Penn station

SEA1K4EVR

When they merged, UA was still selling 3 class first on PS flights so naturally the fares were higher. CO had only 2 classes. That is the reason for the fare difference. And the SAG contract still existed at the time that required travel in full F for union members so UA could get away with charging those fares...later the contract changed and that's the reason 3 classes went away on PS and now there are 2. Can't really compare the two prior to the merger... CO didn't have a 3 class product to sell at the time so that is a huge reason behind the fare differences...regardless if there were lie flats or not.

I don't buy the snobbery factor. Someone above mentioned EWR is to JFK as SFO is to to OAK.... but I don't agree on that either. EWR has many international carriers flying there, and is a huge hub for UA. Oakland is not EWR. I think UA will do just fine on PS flights when they move them to Newark..they'll have to do some marketing to get people used to the change and of course if they want premium customers they will need to keep up the product standards.. but EWR vs JFK just isn't that big of a deal for people going to Manhattan.

EWR764

I'm sure it was... with a dramatically different competitive landscape on the JFK transcons. At that time, p.s. was a fresh, new product against AA running essentially parallel to United, then B6 and Song (or abortive Delta BusinessElite US attempts, and was DL a much weaker player in NY at the time). No VX, no Mint, no full DL schedule with 767s to LAX and no 13x AA to LAX.

The market is radically different now, and still evolving. Premium cabin fares are at all-time lows and capacity is at all-time highs. As much as I would love to see UA remain in the JFK market for my own reasons, I can't fault them if the operation was bleeding red ink, and not all of it was self-inflicted.

Not that I'm aware of, but EWR-DUS goes to a later departure soon, around 7pm IIRC.

neuron

Fond memories of United at JFK. No fond memories of United at EWR!

Guess United couldn't handle the competition from DL, AA, B6 and VX on those routes.

milesmuncher

Agreed - the "what about *A connections at JFK?!?" argument is pretty weak. I actually think this IMPROVES that situation, with EWR offering connections to more cities on *A partners (quick check: AC flies to YUL out of EWR but not JFK, LH flies to DUS out of EWR but not JFK, 3 destinations on SAS, 2 on TAP... though JFK does have SAA, SQ, TK)

I'm in favor, mostly out of selfish reasons - having family in NJ and being more "west side" oriented when I'm back in NYC. Personally, I've always found getting to JFK to be much more of a nightmare than EWR from Manhattan.

nevansm

Well, this will be interesting to watch play out. As many have noted, UA management thinks they know everything about running an airline, but this seems a little shortsighted.

One thing that could be interesting though, if they partner with Gotham Air or Blade for integrated, one-ticket helicopter transfers like Continental did with US Helicopter back in the day, it could eliminate some of the transfer issues that people have.

JVPhoto

Why not? I am a leisure 1K who flies in GF-F/BF-J on *A and I have no problem taking the train for 25-30min at times when I could be sitting in traffic for 60-80 min?

If you strip away the allure of the JFK name it comes out to a wash with EWR. A dinky T7 for UA flights, have you been stuck there for hours over EWR C? Have you seen the security clusterfudge by way of gong show at T4 for the evening departures?