Jun 8, 2015, 5:51 am
Last edit by: UA1K_no_more
Thanks to member mre5765 for starting and maintaining this wikipost in the older thread.
General
LH has more wifi in its long haul fleet than UA.
LH Y vs UA Y
LH has free booze. And better booze than UA.
UA has E+. LH has true premium economy (separate booking class at a premium)
LH J vs UA J
All LH J seats have now been upgraded. However the window seats on 747-8i and all middle pairs of seats are arranged so that the feet of adjacent pax converge toward each other. Both UA J seats have a barrier that prevents kneeing, and the foot rests are well separated to prevent playing footsie.
Some people assert service and food in LH J is better, some say UA J is better, and others say there is no difference or that it varies flight to flight. LH J serves food on trays, but there are linens on the tray table and on the tray itself.
The trend at LH is that as it invests more in hard premium product, the soft aspects slip, because the hard product is an inflexible cost whereas the soft aspects are highly flexible.
The booze on LH J is better than UA J.
The IFE selections on UA are better than LH.
The amenity kit on UA J beats the LH J amenity kit.
LH F vs UA F
All LH planes with F now have the new F seat (748, 388, 346, 333). Ground services on LH F are better: the first class lounge, first class terminal (UA does not have one), and the tarmac limo service to your plane (UA only as this for GS and GF pax who have tight connections).
Standards in the FCT/FCL are slipping. A year or two ago one could expect limitless, whole macadamias and high end chocolates. Gone.
The new LH F seat is superior to the new UA F seat. However, the F cabin in the 747-8i is much more cramped than any GF cabin. Indeed, the 747-8i F cabin is more cramped than the upper deck of the 747-8i J cabin.
Another plus for LH is often the F cabins are sparsely filled, whereas, due to UA's employee contracts, unsold seats will invariably go to non rev employees.
The service and food on LH F is vastly superior to UA F. However standards are slipping. A year or two ago, an F pax was offered as many of the different appetizers as he wanted, and a second round of caviar. These offers are gone.
The booze on LH F is vastly superior to UA F.
The IFE selections on UA are better than LH.
The amenity kit on UA F beats the LH F amenity kit.
Overall, FT consensus in the UA and M&M forums is LH F is a better choice regardless of new F, old F, or gauge.
Overall
LH F > GF > BF > LH J > LH Y+ > UA E+ > LH Y > UA E-
Earlier threads
LH vs UA, which is better?
Best flight choice UA/LH TATL in business
General
LH has more wifi in its long haul fleet than UA.
LH Y vs UA Y
LH has free booze. And better booze than UA.
UA has E+. LH has true premium economy (separate booking class at a premium)
LH J vs UA J
All LH J seats have now been upgraded. However the window seats on 747-8i and all middle pairs of seats are arranged so that the feet of adjacent pax converge toward each other. Both UA J seats have a barrier that prevents kneeing, and the foot rests are well separated to prevent playing footsie.
Some people assert service and food in LH J is better, some say UA J is better, and others say there is no difference or that it varies flight to flight. LH J serves food on trays, but there are linens on the tray table and on the tray itself.
The trend at LH is that as it invests more in hard premium product, the soft aspects slip, because the hard product is an inflexible cost whereas the soft aspects are highly flexible.
The booze on LH J is better than UA J.
The IFE selections on UA are better than LH.
The amenity kit on UA J beats the LH J amenity kit.
LH F vs UA F
All LH planes with F now have the new F seat (748, 388, 346, 333). Ground services on LH F are better: the first class lounge, first class terminal (UA does not have one), and the tarmac limo service to your plane (UA only as this for GS and GF pax who have tight connections).
Standards in the FCT/FCL are slipping. A year or two ago one could expect limitless, whole macadamias and high end chocolates. Gone.
The new LH F seat is superior to the new UA F seat. However, the F cabin in the 747-8i is much more cramped than any GF cabin. Indeed, the 747-8i F cabin is more cramped than the upper deck of the 747-8i J cabin.
Another plus for LH is often the F cabins are sparsely filled, whereas, due to UA's employee contracts, unsold seats will invariably go to non rev employees.
The service and food on LH F is vastly superior to UA F. However standards are slipping. A year or two ago, an F pax was offered as many of the different appetizers as he wanted, and a second round of caviar. These offers are gone.
The booze on LH F is vastly superior to UA F.
The IFE selections on UA are better than LH.
The amenity kit on UA F beats the LH F amenity kit.
Overall, FT consensus in the UA and M&M forums is LH F is a better choice regardless of new F, old F, or gauge.
Overall
LH F > GF > BF > LH J > LH Y+ > UA E+ > LH Y > UA E-
Earlier threads
LH vs UA, which is better?
Best flight choice UA/LH TATL in business
Discussion of Flying Lufthansa vs. United [2015 onward]
Aug 3, 2015, 12:40 pm
#61
Join Date: Mar 2012
Programs: Mileage Plus 1K; Marriott Platinum; Hilton Gold
Posts: 6,355
I find the quality of the ingredients and the degree of freshness in LH catering to be much higher than its UA counterpart. Yes, it is German food, but I happen to like German food. And I certainly like German food better than the "Hungry Man TV Dinner" style of catering that UA puts before its J pax.
Sep 17, 2015, 9:29 am
#62
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: CLT
Programs: AA, UA, BA, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum
Posts: 2,074
Two family members are flying AMS-IAH then onto small regional airport on 9/22 (5 days from now), booked with UA miles. Currently they are booked in UA J. I now see that AMS-FRA-IAH is available on LH F, so they can change to it for 52.5k UA miles + $135 (that's the new taxes - old taxes + $100 change fee) per person. I've read about the vaunted LH F product, but is it worth it in this case considering:
1. 50 minutes in FRA, so no FCT
2. additional leg compared to currently-booked UA J
3. additional 52.5k UA + $135. This is basically a one-way US-Europe on UA J just to upgrade to LH F
?
1. 50 minutes in FRA, so no FCT
2. additional leg compared to currently-booked UA J
3. additional 52.5k UA + $135. This is basically a one-way US-Europe on UA J just to upgrade to LH F
?
Last edited by dukerau; Sep 17, 2015 at 9:53 am
Nov 10, 2015, 10:32 pm
#63
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor Area
Programs: UA Million Miler, BonVoyLifetime Platinum, UA Platinum, President's Club,
Posts: 1,494
United BF versus Lufthansa Business
I'm headed to Greece in the Spring and was shocked to find out that UA doesn't fly there. I know they start at the end of May but it's looking like I'll be going in early May. If I can figure out how to book UA to another city and then connect to Athens on a Star Alliance flight, I might do that. But for now, I'm looking at Lufthansa. Can anyone tell me if the Business Class is similar to UA's BF? The prices are okay but I won't be booking until March. I'm hoping UA has some deals when they start flying into ATH, but I can't count on it. Anyone know how Lufthansa Business is? I'm used to a 777 or Dreamliner BF to Europe. Will it be a step down or similar? And does anyone recommend a city to switch planes in if I decide to go UA to Europe and connect to another airline? Thanks for any info!
Nov 10, 2015, 10:57 pm
#64
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,768
Nov 10, 2015, 11:41 pm
#65
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor Area
Programs: UA Million Miler, BonVoyLifetime Platinum, UA Platinum, President's Club,
Posts: 1,494
One post mentions the IFE being bad on Lufthansa. On such a long flight, IFE (AVOD or DTV) is very important to me. What does Lufthansa offer? UA has AVOD. Do we earn the same amount of miles on Lufthansa? I mean, I buy a BF ticket on UA and I get 1 and a half times the miles. Does this work on Luft? And does "Business" equal United's BF while First equals United's Global 1st?
Do they offer the nice amenity kits or are those only in "First"? The Lufthansa site shows me only a slim-looking seat, that kind of folds out. I didn't see mention of amenities. I see the A330-300 aircrafts as some offered on my dates. I only know UA aircraft of late so I'm unsure.
Because of the new website, I can't figure out a way to fly to another city on UA and connect to Agean or Lufthansa. But if I don't earn the same qualifying miles, it's not worth it. I fly out of DTW so they do have Lufthansa planes and even the nice club. But I'm worried about qualifying miles and IFE and comfort. I don't want to be playing footsie with anyone. The main reason I'm booking BF is bc I have a nerve disorder in my left foot and leg.
I've flown UA or Continental to Europe every year since 2004. I don't like change but I'll do what I need to in order to save money. Maybe I'll need to book on the phone, like in the old days. I just know that with BF with UA, I get Fast Track, AVOD, a menu, use of the clubs, amenity kit and seat that flattens. There are a lot of people who say they prefer Lufthansa to UA. If I'm getting all the same things as UA, I am fine. I am worried about the IFE after reading the posts here, but maybe that was an older post. For such a long flight, I can't imagine not having proper IFE.
Thanks for any info you can share, I do appreciate it!
Do they offer the nice amenity kits or are those only in "First"? The Lufthansa site shows me only a slim-looking seat, that kind of folds out. I didn't see mention of amenities. I see the A330-300 aircrafts as some offered on my dates. I only know UA aircraft of late so I'm unsure.
Because of the new website, I can't figure out a way to fly to another city on UA and connect to Agean or Lufthansa. But if I don't earn the same qualifying miles, it's not worth it. I fly out of DTW so they do have Lufthansa planes and even the nice club. But I'm worried about qualifying miles and IFE and comfort. I don't want to be playing footsie with anyone. The main reason I'm booking BF is bc I have a nerve disorder in my left foot and leg.
I've flown UA or Continental to Europe every year since 2004. I don't like change but I'll do what I need to in order to save money. Maybe I'll need to book on the phone, like in the old days. I just know that with BF with UA, I get Fast Track, AVOD, a menu, use of the clubs, amenity kit and seat that flattens. There are a lot of people who say they prefer Lufthansa to UA. If I'm getting all the same things as UA, I am fine. I am worried about the IFE after reading the posts here, but maybe that was an older post. For such a long flight, I can't imagine not having proper IFE.
Thanks for any info you can share, I do appreciate it!
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Nov 11, 2015 at 12:01 am Reason: commenting on moderation
Nov 10, 2015, 11:59 pm
#66
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,768
J,C,D,Z are 1.5 PQMs P is 100%
Yes LH offers an amenity kit in business
Nov 11, 2015, 12:16 am
#68
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Redwood City, CA USA (SFO/SJC)
Programs: 1K 2010, 1P in 2011, Plat for 2012,13,14,15 & 2016. Gold in 17 & 18, Plat since
Posts: 8,824
What about likelihood of quickie strikes?
I've flown UA since... seems like forever... and never been caught totally off-guard by a wildcat strike. Sure, lots of delays during the Summer of Hell, many work-related I'm sure. But I always got where I needed to go, delayed by no more than a few hours. Yeah, maybe lucky.
But LH is taking on the appearances of French labor troubles, with sudden one day actions becoming more common and sometimes longer. Not that this would come to mind because my LH CPT-MUC leg was cancelled a day ago.
I had no idea this was coming. Maybe if I was better connected I would? But point is, we know UA, we've learned how to work around UA issues, and flying LH might expose you to operational issues you might not be thinking about.
In my case, I was looking at 45 minutes hold time to work something out with LH, or... 1 minute hold time and pretty much whatever option I proposed to UA (because it was booked on 016 ticket stock). So maybe that's significant? Book an LH flight via UA?
But LH is taking on the appearances of French labor troubles, with sudden one day actions becoming more common and sometimes longer. Not that this would come to mind because my LH CPT-MUC leg was cancelled a day ago.
I had no idea this was coming. Maybe if I was better connected I would? But point is, we know UA, we've learned how to work around UA issues, and flying LH might expose you to operational issues you might not be thinking about.
In my case, I was looking at 45 minutes hold time to work something out with LH, or... 1 minute hold time and pretty much whatever option I proposed to UA (because it was booked on 016 ticket stock). So maybe that's significant? Book an LH flight via UA?
Nov 11, 2015, 5:17 am
#69
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,039
I think since the LH fleet has been updated with new J throughout, the wiki needs to be updated (there is no way that UA's seat is "vastly superior" to LH's new J). You get much nicer wine, food, service, seat and lounge access with LH. UA's J product has a nice-ish seat and better IFE, but if I were to have to choose between UA and LH in J, I would 100% go with LH, without question.
Also, LH has started a new "restaurant-style" service in their J cabin, and initial feedback has been that service is better than it was before (i.e. serving on the trays).
Also, LH has started a new "restaurant-style" service in their J cabin, and initial feedback has been that service is better than it was before (i.e. serving on the trays).
Nov 11, 2015, 3:16 pm
#70
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,510
Nov 11, 2015, 5:57 pm
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,715
I think the wiki and comments are spot on. LH C is great so long as you aren't stuck on one of the few planes that hasn't been updated. Fortunately that concern will soon be a thing of the past.
LH business and Senator lounges are far superior to UA, but that's not really an issue as *G can access the lounges in Germany. IMO the LH in-flight food for TATL flights is about the same though LH scores higher by catering German beer
Note when flying LH ex-FRA there is always a small risk that a GA will force you to tag a 22" bag that would otherwise easily fit in the overhead. Even when flying in paid C. I've never had this happen once on UA.
No discussion of upgrades? I would expect that it would be easier for UA MP elites to use GPUs to upgrade on UA flights v. LH flights. But maybe LH has more inventory since it is harder to upgrade via M&M?
Finally note that if you require a connecting flight, domestic F on UA will be far superior to Euro-F on LH, as the latter is basically an E- seat with a blocked middle in the first 3 rows. Though the meal is much better than the slop you'd get on a UA domestic flight.
LH business and Senator lounges are far superior to UA, but that's not really an issue as *G can access the lounges in Germany. IMO the LH in-flight food for TATL flights is about the same though LH scores higher by catering German beer
Note when flying LH ex-FRA there is always a small risk that a GA will force you to tag a 22" bag that would otherwise easily fit in the overhead. Even when flying in paid C. I've never had this happen once on UA.
No discussion of upgrades? I would expect that it would be easier for UA MP elites to use GPUs to upgrade on UA flights v. LH flights. But maybe LH has more inventory since it is harder to upgrade via M&M?
Finally note that if you require a connecting flight, domestic F on UA will be far superior to Euro-F on LH, as the latter is basically an E- seat with a blocked middle in the first 3 rows. Though the meal is much better than the slop you'd get on a UA domestic flight.
Nov 11, 2015, 6:12 pm
#72
Senior Moderator, Moderator: Community Buzz and Ambassador: Miles & More (Lufthansa, Austrian, Swiss, and other partners)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: 150km from MAN
Programs: LH SEN** HH Diamond
Posts: 29,510
There is no longhaul LH aircraft with old C seat left. The last retrofit was completed in September.
Nov 12, 2015, 4:32 am
#73
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,039
It all depends on the lens in which you view things...
Nov 12, 2015, 7:59 am
#74
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: JAX
Programs: UA Plat MM, AA Gold MM, Marriott LTT, Hyatt Globalist
Posts: 3,770
Well it depends who is reading this wiki. If you are someone who buys J tickets outright, or uses miles, then you aren't interested in people getting upgrades, especially because fewer upgrades = a quieter cabin. There have been times where I've flown on the UD w/ LH with 3 other passengers. That would never happen on UA, so for me, I see that as a positive thing, and you may see that as a negative because they could have used those seats for upgrades.
It all depends on the lens in which you view things...
It all depends on the lens in which you view things...
We've been on LH F where our family had 3 seats with 1 other passenger, and it felt like a private cabin. Great service and all the caviar I wanted.
Nov 12, 2015, 4:02 pm
#75
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Danville, CA, USA;
Programs: UA 1MM, WN CP, Marriott LT Plat, Hilton Gold, IC Plat
Posts: 15,715
Well it depends who is reading this wiki. If you are someone who buys J tickets outright, or uses miles, then you aren't interested in people getting upgrades, especially because fewer upgrades = a quieter cabin. There have been times where I've flown on the UD w/ LH with 3 other passengers. That would never happen on UA, so for me, I see that as a positive thing, and you may see that as a negative because they could have used those seats for upgrades.
It all depends on the lens in which you view things...
It all depends on the lens in which you view things...
