UA Takes Lowest Rank (of majors) in JD Power 2015 and other surveys
#61
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: EWR, PHL
Programs: UA1k 3MM, AA Plt, peasant on everybody else, elite something or other at a bunch of hotels.
Posts: 4,637
Given the brand recognition of JD Power (as mentioned earlier), I can't cannot accept that these surveys are worthless. I have to assume that the methodology was consistent across all carriers and the rankings are a valid indication of relative quality.
I wish UA's board would take these into account when assigning objectives to UA's execs. They must recognize that they are in fact, a service business, and the management team should be responsible for achieving some reasonable score compared to competition. (And last place should not be acceptable.) Bonus payments should be tied in part to such a measure.
Last edited by WineCountryUA; May 17, 2015 at 11:08 pm Reason: snark removed
#62
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: BOS/EAP
Programs: UA 1K, MR LTT, HH Dia, Amex Plat
Posts: 31,962
Honestly, overall, this survey is probably spot on. I you are a general flyer in E- enduring UAs continued operational issues and now massively devalued FQTV program ... are you going to rank them high? I don't think so.
Most of us can 'work' within the system and if you can manage to very rarely fly coach then UA might be just o.k. ... many of my colleagues fly UA seldom and bitterly complain about the poor service especially during irops; it matters.
#63
Join Date: May 2006
Location: BOS and ...
Programs: UA 2MM, AA 600k, DL 500k, Hyatt GP 1M, HH Gold, Rad. Gold, CP Gold, Miracle Fruit-su Club
Posts: 9,950
I remember c2008 when UA decided to stop giving meals in C on domestic turns. It lasted about 5 days. Then they gave away BOB, that lasted a few weeks, then meals came back. The blowback was just ferousious, and UA realized everyone in those seats was an elite, and they were POed. But, on those flights, the FAs just hid, they were surly and unhappy, and before this "glens little bit o cheer" well IMHO the FAs on those flights are the best.
Ever since I have noticed that when the FAs are given good product and the ablity to make people happy, they generally (and I'm talking all airlines) do a good job. Well when the product goes away, and they have to fight the customers, put up with the constant negative comments, well service goes to crap. I have watched this pattern happen on UA, TWA, NW, and now UA again. The sUA FAs were actually quite happy and supportive, service was good, in 2011, but that went to hell after 3/12.
I don't blame the FAs, they are in the line of fire. Fix the soft and hard product, everyone's demeanor will improve when they are happy to come to work in the am (see DL as an e.g.).
Ever since I have noticed that when the FAs are given good product and the ablity to make people happy, they generally (and I'm talking all airlines) do a good job. Well when the product goes away, and they have to fight the customers, put up with the constant negative comments, well service goes to crap. I have watched this pattern happen on UA, TWA, NW, and now UA again. The sUA FAs were actually quite happy and supportive, service was good, in 2011, but that went to hell after 3/12.
I don't blame the FAs, they are in the line of fire. Fix the soft and hard product, everyone's demeanor will improve when they are happy to come to work in the am (see DL as an e.g.).
I would just add Eastern Airlines. Which, ironically, was taken over by Continental, and we regulars thought we'd been "raised up". Night and day. It was why so many of us were rooting for Continental over USAir to take over United ... Alas.
#64
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midwest
Programs: UA GS, UA 1.6MM, AA LT PLT, AA 2.6MM, Intercontinental Royal Ambassador
Posts: 837
We talk a lot about the airline industry in my company and amongst industry peers as we're always up in the air. United is doing a very nice job for most of us and we hope that the improvements keep on coming. Again - same is true for American. Those are the two airlines that most in my firm fly so I don't have much to say about the others.
#65
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ORD
Programs: 1K, MM, Marriott Plat
Posts: 427
We did an informal poll and all but one stated that the days of flying UAL were over unless it was absolutely necessary. Since UAL doesn't consider their business important, none can achieve GS for themselves or employees by simply signing a contract-they have to directly pay for it since many own a majority in their company-they see spending their money with UAL not a wise investment. They also agreed that to make 1K, PLAT or GOLD with UAL has become too burdensome and the travel unreliable. It is also important to understand they all emphasize placing the customer first at their company.
BTW, 16 were or are 1k's, PLAT or Gold but all were familiar with UAL's "over-entitled elite" comment. We then spent the rest of the call, not on the planned topic, but discussing what Smisek and his team have done wrong and how to avoid the many mistakes in each of their own companies.
#66
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Although I acknowledge the poll and its results, almost everyone I know (50+) who flies UA is very satisfied. These would mostly be GS/1Ks. I'd add that my experiences on AA are about the same as UA - not better or worse which is to say that both alrlines over the past 12 months have seen younger FAs in the up front cabins, better attitudes, good service and generally pleasant experiences.
We talk a lot about the airline industry in my company and amongst industry peers as we're always up in the air. United is doing a very nice job for most of us and we hope that the improvements keep on coming. Again - same is true for American. Those are the two airlines that most in my firm fly so I don't have much to say about the others.
We talk a lot about the airline industry in my company and amongst industry peers as we're always up in the air. United is doing a very nice job for most of us and we hope that the improvements keep on coming. Again - same is true for American. Those are the two airlines that most in my firm fly so I don't have much to say about the others.
Alas, what I hear - and dare I say everyone else hears - is very different. Just got off a SFO-PHL on US, my seatmate has a house in Napa, and goes to SFO often, like me he bailed on UA. Said its hard to believe, having avoided UslessAir for years, but US has been better than UA since Jeff took over. He says he will not fly UA, unless its "fly UA, or get stuck." Just a former GS and a former 1K, randomly talking.
And last week, on DL (again paid F) had the same conversation with like me an ex-GS, and the same week, with an ex-1K on VX.
Lots of people on this board reporting they did the same thing, and (1) there is no long list of people saying they bailed for UA, and (2) no other board has several years of threads, each with over 1000 posts on bailing on Jeff's little bundle of commodified joy.
and PS, our view is backed up by every single survey, which now across the board have United at the bottom of the list. Actually quite an accomplishment, United has swept the raspberrys
#67
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Midwest
Programs: UA GS, UA 1.6MM, AA LT PLT, AA 2.6MM, Intercontinental Royal Ambassador
Posts: 837
Interesting. I am in the same age group and work with many small businesses similar in size to mine. We get together on conference calls regularly and on a recent call before all arrived the discussion turned to UAL. There were 22 on the call at this point and all are CEO's.
We did an informal poll and all but one stated that the days of flying UAL were over unless it was absolutely necessary. Since UAL doesn't consider their business important, none can achieve GS for themselves or employees by simply signing a contract-they have to directly pay for it since many own a majority in their company-they see spending their money with UAL not a wise investment. They also agreed that to make 1K, PLAT or GOLD with UAL has become too burdensome and the travel unreliable. It is also important to understand they all emphasize placing the customer first at their company.
BTW, 16 were or are 1k's, PLAT or Gold but all were familiar with UAL's "over-entitled elite" comment. We then spent the rest of the call, not on the planned topic, but discussing what Smisek and his team have done wrong and how to avoid the many mistakes in each of their own companies.
We did an informal poll and all but one stated that the days of flying UAL were over unless it was absolutely necessary. Since UAL doesn't consider their business important, none can achieve GS for themselves or employees by simply signing a contract-they have to directly pay for it since many own a majority in their company-they see spending their money with UAL not a wise investment. They also agreed that to make 1K, PLAT or GOLD with UAL has become too burdensome and the travel unreliable. It is also important to understand they all emphasize placing the customer first at their company.
BTW, 16 were or are 1k's, PLAT or Gold but all were familiar with UAL's "over-entitled elite" comment. We then spent the rest of the call, not on the planned topic, but discussing what Smisek and his team have done wrong and how to avoid the many mistakes in each of their own companies.
Hey, I get that everyone of the 50+ people in your company think United is just savvy-tastic.
Alas, what I hear - and dare I say everyone else hears - is very different. Just got off a SFO-PHL on US, my seatmate has a house in Napa, and goes to SFO often, like me he bailed on UA. Said its hard to believe, having avoided UslessAir for years, but US has been better than UA since Jeff took over. He says he will not fly UA, unless its "fly UA, or get stuck." Just a former GS and a former 1K, randomly talking.
And last week, on DL (again paid F) had the same conversation with like me an ex-GS, and the same week, with an ex-1K on VX.
Lots of people on this board reporting they did the same thing, and (1) there is no long list of people saying they bailed for UA, and (2) no other board has several years of threads, each with over 1000 posts on bailing on Jeff's little bundle of commodified joy.
and PS, our view is backed up by every single survey, which now across the board have United at the bottom of the list. Actually quite an accomplishment, United has swept the raspberrys
Alas, what I hear - and dare I say everyone else hears - is very different. Just got off a SFO-PHL on US, my seatmate has a house in Napa, and goes to SFO often, like me he bailed on UA. Said its hard to believe, having avoided UslessAir for years, but US has been better than UA since Jeff took over. He says he will not fly UA, unless its "fly UA, or get stuck." Just a former GS and a former 1K, randomly talking.
And last week, on DL (again paid F) had the same conversation with like me an ex-GS, and the same week, with an ex-1K on VX.
Lots of people on this board reporting they did the same thing, and (1) there is no long list of people saying they bailed for UA, and (2) no other board has several years of threads, each with over 1000 posts on bailing on Jeff's little bundle of commodified joy.
and PS, our view is backed up by every single survey, which now across the board have United at the bottom of the list. Actually quite an accomplishment, United has swept the raspberrys
As a CK on AA and a GS on UA, I've decided to go with UA for all my flying for these reasons:
1) Far superior upgrade percentage (basically 100% vs AA where it's hit and miss because I book late (Y for domestic, J/C/D for int'l travel)
2) Superior IRROPS - GS gives me many options including any other airline without me asking (AA does not although they do protect me on other AA flights)
3) Superior mileage program - I would tell you this is the key factor for most of us these days. We are loving the mileage rewards for all the flying we do and the AA attempt to plug the gap has fallen short by most of our calculations.
Mind you, I have zero allegiance to UA. I am a LT 2MM + flyer from AA who started flying UA just before 3/2012. I am as objective as anyone on these boards as I have no emotional ties, corporate contracts, or anything that I am not disclosing. I can fly whomever I want whenever I want to wherever I need to be. This is true for my peer group as well. Overwhemingly, we all choose UA for the most part and are enjoying the experience. In fact, when I tell folks to check out FT, they don't understand the negativity that they read here because it doesn't match up with their experience.
I think for those who were long time flyers with UA the way I was with AA, there is just too much emotion tied up in the relationship. I see none of the issues that permeate these boards on a day to day basis on UA which I fly globally and domestically all the time. I am even more sensitive to it due to my FT insights and I still don't see it. That's why I ask around so much and hear nothing that suggests that anyone else feels any differently. I thought that maybe I wasn't seeing the negatives that I'm supposed to see Another way to put what I am saying is that all of these rankings are absolute, but on a relative basis, the experience that one has with each airline is not that far away from others on the list (unless you are comparing the very best to the very worst perhaps).
So I don't for one second dispute your informal surveys or what others say on this board. What I do think is that emotion clouds reason and as a long time AA flyer who still loves that airline and is hopeful that the CK program will be brought up to GS standards, I can state from my experience that flying on AA and UA is fairly indistinguishable and I lean UA because of the recent tweaks to the MP program.
I'll go right back to AA or split my flying if there's an economically rational reason to do so. And if UA wrongs me, I'll be the first to report it here. But so far so good for 2015 and most of 2014. I think UA is improving rapidly and fingers crossed that it continues. Although it may be hard for some to believe, there are a lot of us who actually look forward to flying on UA on a daily basis
#68
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,413
I hear primarily negatives from my SFO-based peers about UA; ranging from "never again" to "only when there's no alternative." These are mostly lawyers and senior level executives. It's not 100% but definitely a solid majority, such that I've come to expect negative comments if UA gets mentioned.
#69
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,907
With all the UA hate, makes me wonder why the planes are completely packed and groups 1 and 2 are very long with elites. Do all these people really hate UA and there is just no other alternative? Or is UA low in the polls, but things get blown out of proportion on a bulletin board? Really, I'm curious. And even though UA is low in the polls, more than half must like them as I don't think any airline is less than 50%.
#70
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: London; Bangkok; Las Vegas
Programs: AA Exec Plat; UA MM Gold; Marriott Lifetime Titanium; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 8,745
With all the UA hate, makes me wonder why the planes are completely packed and groups 1 and 2 are very long with elites. Do all these people really hate UA and there is just no other alternative? Or is UA low in the polls, but things get blown out of proportion on a bulletin board? Really, I'm curious. And even though UA is low in the polls, more than half must like them as I don't think any airline is less than 50%.
UA is last in the polls and for good reason. Look at the numerous threads on this board.
Planes are packed? SO WHAT. What is the UA PRASM and why is it trailing the other major U.S. carriers?
Filling a plane with Kettles is not a viable long-term business strategy.
A lot of posters want to bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is fine at UA. It is not and its performance relative to its peers tells the true story. If someone pulls their head out of the sand instead of blindly claiming that all is well at UA they will see that.
#71
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,907
I see. Refer to UA "hate" and that supposedly discredits objectively legitimate criticism.
UA is last in the polls and for good reason. Look at the numerous threads on this board.
Planes are packed? SO WHAT. What is the UA PRASM and why is it trailing the other major U.S. carriers?
Filling a plane with Kettles is not a viable long-term business strategy.
A lot of posters want to bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is fine at UA. It is not and its performance relative to its peers tells the true story. If someone pulls their head out of the sand instead of blindly claiming that all is well at UA they will see that.
UA is last in the polls and for good reason. Look at the numerous threads on this board.
Planes are packed? SO WHAT. What is the UA PRASM and why is it trailing the other major U.S. carriers?
Filling a plane with Kettles is not a viable long-term business strategy.
A lot of posters want to bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is fine at UA. It is not and its performance relative to its peers tells the true story. If someone pulls their head out of the sand instead of blindly claiming that all is well at UA they will see that.
#72
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: San Francisco Bay Area
Posts: 5,825
I see. Refer to UA "hate" and that supposedly discredits objectively legitimate criticism.
UA is last in the polls and for good reason. Look at the numerous threads on this board.
Planes are packed? SO WHAT. What is the UA PRASM and why is it trailing the other major U.S. carriers?
Filling a plane with Kettles is not a viable long-term business strategy.
A lot of posters want to bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is fine at UA. It is not and its performance relative to its peers tells the true story. If someone pulls their head out of the sand instead of blindly claiming that all is well at UA they will see that.
UA is last in the polls and for good reason. Look at the numerous threads on this board.
Planes are packed? SO WHAT. What is the UA PRASM and why is it trailing the other major U.S. carriers?
Filling a plane with Kettles is not a viable long-term business strategy.
A lot of posters want to bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is fine at UA. It is not and its performance relative to its peers tells the true story. If someone pulls their head out of the sand instead of blindly claiming that all is well at UA they will see that.
So what do you think is going to happen?
Should we pull the 'When is UA going to go bankrupt' thread out of the mothballs? Should we start a pool predicting the date the CEO will be fired?
How does somebody who flies 200K miles per year have their 'head in the sand'?
While somebody who has proudly spent $214 on UA (maybe more now that you add the EWR-SAN flight) this year, but 'reads a lot of negative comments on FlyerTalk' should have credibility?
Sorry, but you and others who have mostly / completely left UA are still some of the loudest negative voices. While I give credibility to people who actually fly UA, and to surveys ranking the airlines, I can't give much credibility to people who no longer fly UA.
#73
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
I see. Refer to UA "hate" and that supposedly discredits objectively legitimate criticism.
UA is last in the polls and for good reason. Look at the numerous threads on this board.
Planes are packed? SO WHAT. What is the UA PRASM and why is it trailing the other major U.S. carriers?
Filling a plane with Kettles is not a viable long-term business strategy.
A lot of posters want to bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is fine at UA. It is not and its performance relative to its peers tells the true story. If someone pulls their head out of the sand instead of blindly claiming that all is well at UA they will see that.
UA is last in the polls and for good reason. Look at the numerous threads on this board.
Planes are packed? SO WHAT. What is the UA PRASM and why is it trailing the other major U.S. carriers?
Filling a plane with Kettles is not a viable long-term business strategy.
A lot of posters want to bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is fine at UA. It is not and its performance relative to its peers tells the true story. If someone pulls their head out of the sand instead of blindly claiming that all is well at UA they will see that.
We can all have our own opinions, but I find the relentless criticism of United and praise for other airlines to be a strange fit for a forum to discuss United.
#74
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jul 1999
Location: Ewa Beach, Hawaii
Posts: 10,907
So what do you think is going to happen?
Should we pull the 'When is UA going to go bankrupt' thread out of the mothballs? Should we start a pool predicting the date the CEO will be fired?
How does somebody who flies 200K miles per year have their 'head in the sand'?
While somebody who has proudly spent $214 on UA (maybe more now that you add the EWR-SAN flight) this year, but 'reads a lot of negative comments on FlyerTalk' should have credibility?
Sorry, but you and others who have mostly / completely left UA are still some of the loudest negative voices. While I give credibility to people who actually fly UA, and to surveys ranking the airlines, I can't give much credibility to people who no longer fly UA.
Should we pull the 'When is UA going to go bankrupt' thread out of the mothballs? Should we start a pool predicting the date the CEO will be fired?
How does somebody who flies 200K miles per year have their 'head in the sand'?
While somebody who has proudly spent $214 on UA (maybe more now that you add the EWR-SAN flight) this year, but 'reads a lot of negative comments on FlyerTalk' should have credibility?
Sorry, but you and others who have mostly / completely left UA are still some of the loudest negative voices. While I give credibility to people who actually fly UA, and to surveys ranking the airlines, I can't give much credibility to people who no longer fly UA.
I am on UA planes just about every week. Almost exclusively domestic.
#75
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
I hear primarily negatives from my SFO-based peers about UA; ranging from "never again" to "only when there's no alternative." These are mostly lawyers and senior level executives. It's not 100% but definitely a solid majority, such that I've come to expect negative comments if UA gets mentioned.
With all the UA hate, makes me wonder why the planes are completely packed and groups 1 and 2 are very long with elites. Do all these people really hate UA and there is just no other alternative? Or is UA low in the polls, but things get blown out of proportion on a bulletin board? Really, I'm curious. And even though UA is low in the polls, more than half must like them as I don't think any airline is less than 50%.
A lot of posters want to bury their head in the sand and pretend everything is fine at UA. It is not and its performance relative to its peers tells the true story. If someone pulls their head out of the sand instead of blindly claiming that all is well at UA they will see that.
YMMV But to be clear, I don't know, or purport to know or compair UA to AA. My first AA flight in a few years was today, SFO-PHL on sUS. Not overwhelming, food was very marginally better, as was the snack basket, plane was dark/no IFE. The only good thing was that with a late arriving plane they dumped normal boarding and after F and elites, made everyone board by row back to front. It went quickly. Boarding done in 15 minutes.