UA charged me more for an upgrade 2 weeks AFTER my flight!!
Mar 19, 2015, 10:08 am
#151
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Mar 19, 2015, 10:14 am
#152
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Mar 19, 2015, 10:19 am
#153
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Seriously, this is an airline that offers TODs to low yield vacationers while its superelite and elite FFers are waiting for upgrades that are part of their loyalty package. How much of a stretch is it to think that they would offer people discounted mileage upgrades, especially given that they seem to want to get miles off the books?
The OP did nothing wrong and I'm glad this was reported to DOT.
The OP did nothing wrong and I'm glad this was reported to DOT.
Mar 19, 2015, 10:25 am
#154
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Some of the arguments in favor of UA's actions here are mighty persuasive. It got me to thinking a bit.
I bought a ticket from UA and later decided that I really wanted to pay $100 less than I had agreed to pay. I'm sure they will now refund me the difference since after all, it was an honest mistake on my part. You see there was just a glitch in my buying process and it sure was dishonest of UA to exploit that glitch.
Hang on while I file my refund claim.
I bought a ticket from UA and later decided that I really wanted to pay $100 less than I had agreed to pay. I'm sure they will now refund me the difference since after all, it was an honest mistake on my part. You see there was just a glitch in my buying process and it sure was dishonest of UA to exploit that glitch.
Hang on while I file my refund claim.
Mar 19, 2015, 10:33 am
#155
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It has been an interesting read for many of us, no doubt:-)
For me, interesting in the sense that what seemed initially as the major point whether a company can charge your credit card without your consent then slided into a debate of intensions and knowlegibility etc of a customer who was charged extra retrospectively for the service rendered and consumed irrevocably.
All said, I am wondering what would be the way for UA to take $1200 from your pocket, had the ticket not been paid by a credit card?
I know all purchases on UA website require the use of CC, but what if it was done through a travel agent and paid by cash/cheque...
For me, interesting in the sense that what seemed initially as the major point whether a company can charge your credit card without your consent then slided into a debate of intensions and knowlegibility etc of a customer who was charged extra retrospectively for the service rendered and consumed irrevocably.
All said, I am wondering what would be the way for UA to take $1200 from your pocket, had the ticket not been paid by a credit card?
I know all purchases on UA website require the use of CC, but what if it was done through a travel agent and paid by cash/cheque...
Mar 19, 2015, 10:45 am
#156
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Some of the arguments in favor of UA's actions here are mighty persuasive. It got me to thinking a bit.
I bought a ticket from UA and later decided that I really wanted to pay $100 less than I had agreed to pay. I'm sure they will now refund me the difference since after all, it was an honest mistake on my part. You see there was just a glitch in my buying process and it sure was dishonest of UA to exploit that glitch.
Hang on while I file my refund claim.
I bought a ticket from UA and later decided that I really wanted to pay $100 less than I had agreed to pay. I'm sure they will now refund me the difference since after all, it was an honest mistake on my part. You see there was just a glitch in my buying process and it sure was dishonest of UA to exploit that glitch.
Hang on while I file my refund claim.
Mar 19, 2015, 10:46 am
#157
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...Now the OP. In both this thread and the recent UA mistake fare thread, it is interesting to watch people attempt to superimpose a set of facts, as related to the intent of those taking advantage of these mistakes, which completely omits the truth: that they bookings were made in an attempt to take advantage of a know glitch or mistake. Sure, you could have simply asked for an upgrade and paid what was quoted, but (by the OP's admissions) that's not what happened. The OP new about the glitch, and attempted to take advantage of it. If you went to court, this would be relevant.
Further fascinating is that now that the OP has aired his/her grievance, there is a request to lock the thread so as not to draw more attention to this glitch. Again, it's an interesting attempt to do something, then sort of sweep all the facts under the rug (in this case the thread and related posts), as if you can simply use The Force to undo what has now been published, or selectively erase facts. Posting on the internet is like shooting a gun: you can't call the bullets back because, with additional thought, you determine that pulling the trigger was a mistake.
Further fascinating is that now that the OP has aired his/her grievance, there is a request to lock the thread so as not to draw more attention to this glitch. Again, it's an interesting attempt to do something, then sort of sweep all the facts under the rug (in this case the thread and related posts), as if you can simply use The Force to undo what has now been published, or selectively erase facts. Posting on the internet is like shooting a gun: you can't call the bullets back because, with additional thought, you determine that pulling the trigger was a mistake.
Mar 19, 2015, 10:48 am
#158
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I'm a DL/AA guy, so I'm not particularly familiar with UA's upgrade policy and want to make sure I have this correct:
1) UA has a glitch in their system that allows a passenger to fly AAA-XXX-BBB, where AAA and BBB are domestic and XXX is international, but charges the domestic upgrade charge if the ticket is booked as OW and the layover is less than a certain period of time?
2) This is a glitch that has been known to FTers, and therefore, likely to UA, for ten years?
3) The OP took advantage of the glitch, knowing that the 20K + $75 likely wasn't United's intended price.
Assuming all of those are true, I don't see how UA has a leg to stand on. They charged the OP a price and the OP flew. Somebody at UA knew that this pricing flaw existed, yet chose not to fix it. What am I missing?
Sounds like the dealer also told the customer that it was their own fault for driving the car off the lot.
I have to admit, I also get a kick out of Option #4, particularly since the OP went out of his way not to tell us about the "exception."
Mike
1) UA has a glitch in their system that allows a passenger to fly AAA-XXX-BBB, where AAA and BBB are domestic and XXX is international, but charges the domestic upgrade charge if the ticket is booked as OW and the layover is less than a certain period of time?
2) This is a glitch that has been known to FTers, and therefore, likely to UA, for ten years?
3) The OP took advantage of the glitch, knowing that the 20K + $75 likely wasn't United's intended price.
Assuming all of those are true, I don't see how UA has a leg to stand on. They charged the OP a price and the OP flew. Somebody at UA knew that this pricing flaw existed, yet chose not to fix it. What am I missing?
Not quite. He didn't pay for the Prius. He paid for the Mercedes at a price the dealer never intended to sell the Mercedes for.
The analogy would be you asked for the Mercedes all along, asked the dealer how much, the dealer looked up the price of the Mercedes, but when he put it in the system, a system glitch changed the price of the deal to something much lower (kind of like the price of the Prius). You agreed to the price and thought you were getting a good deal. They wrote up the deal for the Mercedes, gave you a title and keys to the Mercedes with matching VIN, and you drove home with it.
Two weeks later, the manager figured out what happened, said nothing to anyone, dug up the credit card you used to pay for the car, and charged you an additional $20,000.
A few weeks later when you got your statement, you realized the extra charge, called the dealer, asked what's up, they said we agree that we made a mistake, and you shouldn't have been charged, but accounting won't refund it, because that was the correct price, though it was never disclosed to you.
You go online to research what happened, and learn that the dealer has a reputation for having the shoddiest IT in the car industry, and this specific glitch where car prices change during the deal has been going on for some 10 years -- way back when they were doing business under the name of Continental Motors.
You also learn that this car dealer has the highest rate of industry complaints, and its customers rant about how they have such poor service, and nobody is empowered to fix much of anything. So then you start looking up your options for remedies through legal and regulatory channels.
The analogy would be you asked for the Mercedes all along, asked the dealer how much, the dealer looked up the price of the Mercedes, but when he put it in the system, a system glitch changed the price of the deal to something much lower (kind of like the price of the Prius). You agreed to the price and thought you were getting a good deal. They wrote up the deal for the Mercedes, gave you a title and keys to the Mercedes with matching VIN, and you drove home with it.
Two weeks later, the manager figured out what happened, said nothing to anyone, dug up the credit card you used to pay for the car, and charged you an additional $20,000.
A few weeks later when you got your statement, you realized the extra charge, called the dealer, asked what's up, they said we agree that we made a mistake, and you shouldn't have been charged, but accounting won't refund it, because that was the correct price, though it was never disclosed to you.
You go online to research what happened, and learn that the dealer has a reputation for having the shoddiest IT in the car industry, and this specific glitch where car prices change during the deal has been going on for some 10 years -- way back when they were doing business under the name of Continental Motors.
You also learn that this car dealer has the highest rate of industry complaints, and its customers rant about how they have such poor service, and nobody is empowered to fix much of anything. So then you start looking up your options for remedies through legal and regulatory channels.
The way I understand it (and this is a new glitch to me so I may be getting this wrong) is let's say you buy coach EWR/SIN/JFK as you described. You're going to be charged whatever the US/Asia/US price is. But then you go to upgrade. Because you aren't returning to EWR or transitting the same city twice (let's say EWR/LAX/SIN/SFO/JFK as opposed to EWR/LAX/SIN/LAX/JFK) the glitch is that the computer doesn't view this as a round trip so it lets you upgrade at the one way cost. UA catches it later and bills your account for the correct r/t upgrade miles.
It's option 4 I get a kick out of.
It's option 4 I get a kick out of.
Mike
Mar 19, 2015, 11:02 am
#159
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Mar 19, 2015, 11:40 am
#160
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Mar 19, 2015, 12:04 pm
#161
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UA charged me more for an upgrade 2 weeks AFTER my flight!!
Charging the card is wrong and op will get money back if he chooses via chargeback
If I was ua, I would have sent op a letter letting him know his account is suspended and will reopen if he pays $1200 within 30 days.
If I was ua, I would have sent op a letter letting him know his account is suspended and will reopen if he pays $1200 within 30 days.
Mar 19, 2015, 12:08 pm
#162
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Mar 19, 2015, 12:16 pm
#163
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I'm a DL/AA guy, so I'm not particularly familiar with UA's upgrade policy and want to make sure I have this correct:
1) UA has a glitch in their system that allows a passenger to fly AAA-XXX-BBB, where AAA and BBB are domestic and XXX is international, but charges the domestic upgrade charge if the ticket is booked as OW and the layover is less than a certain period of time?
2) This is a glitch that has been known to FTers, and therefore, likely to UA, for ten years?
3) The OP took advantage of the glitch, knowing that the 20K + $75 likely wasn't United's intended price.
Assuming all of those are true, I don't see how UA has a leg to stand on. They charged the OP a price and the OP flew. Somebody at UA knew that this pricing flaw existed, yet chose not to fix it. What am I missing?
1) UA has a glitch in their system that allows a passenger to fly AAA-XXX-BBB, where AAA and BBB are domestic and XXX is international, but charges the domestic upgrade charge if the ticket is booked as OW and the layover is less than a certain period of time?
2) This is a glitch that has been known to FTers, and therefore, likely to UA, for ten years?
3) The OP took advantage of the glitch, knowing that the 20K + $75 likely wasn't United's intended price.
Assuming all of those are true, I don't see how UA has a leg to stand on. They charged the OP a price and the OP flew. Somebody at UA knew that this pricing flaw existed, yet chose not to fix it. What am I missing?
Pretty accurate.
Mar 19, 2015, 12:35 pm
#164
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Definitely a fascinating read to watch all the info trickle out. I've been reading and posting on this forum for years now, and I only had the vaguest memory of this glitch. I seem to recall benefiting from a similar glitch once with an RPU on a mileage run, but it was never clear to me that wasn't within the rules, or if there was even a way to prevent the RPU from clearing both segments at once. It's fuzzy in my memory, but I think the second segment upgrade was a surprise on my end. I seem to recall, I would have had to call in and get an agent to downgrade it. It's not totally obvious that this RPU/e-500 glitch is the same glitch the OP used.
In the end, I have to say, if UA knows about this issue they have one and only one recourse:
Fix the glitch in the software by adding a few lines of code.
As for the OP, maybe he knew he wasn't entitled exactly to what he got. Yep, and maybe I wouldn't to do business with him after reading this thread. UA could have intervened at any point up until the flight. Unfortunately for UA, I don't think they have any choice at this point other than to give him his money back.
In the end, I have to say, if UA knows about this issue they have one and only one recourse:
Fix the glitch in the software by adding a few lines of code.
As for the OP, maybe he knew he wasn't entitled exactly to what he got. Yep, and maybe I wouldn't to do business with him after reading this thread. UA could have intervened at any point up until the flight. Unfortunately for UA, I don't think they have any choice at this point other than to give him his money back.
Mar 19, 2015, 1:01 pm
#165
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OP may or may not have been gaming the system. But UA took an action that is very close to criminal fraud.
It is OK to correct a CC charge when you think it was a mistake, and that the corrected charge reflects the agreement one had with the customer.
But there is no way in the world that UA could possibly believe this to be the case. UA submitted a claim to the CC that they new full well the customer had not agreed to.
UA was using the CC to try and collect something they believed (right or wrong) they were owed. But this is clearly illegal. Their only action was to bill the customer, go to court and collections (if they even have a claim). Not just hit the CC.
Tell me why that is not fraud?
It is OK to correct a CC charge when you think it was a mistake, and that the corrected charge reflects the agreement one had with the customer.
But there is no way in the world that UA could possibly believe this to be the case. UA submitted a claim to the CC that they new full well the customer had not agreed to.
UA was using the CC to try and collect something they believed (right or wrong) they were owed. But this is clearly illegal. Their only action was to bill the customer, go to court and collections (if they even have a claim). Not just hit the CC.
Tell me why that is not fraud?