Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

WSJ: United Sent Safety Warning to Pilots

WSJ: United Sent Safety Warning to Pilots

Old Mar 16, 2015, 10:20 pm
  #91  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
I know this is a management-biased board, but the union letter posted above is not surprising to me, and encapsulates everything I've been hearing the last 3 years from my friends/family who are UAL pilots.
tuolumne is offline  
Old Mar 16, 2015, 11:09 pm
  #92  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
Originally Posted by tuolumne
I know this is a management-biased board, but the union letter posted above is not surprising to me, and encapsulates everything I've been hearing the last 3 years from my friends/family who are UAL pilots.
I don't think the board as a whole leans one way or another. I just feel that management were never behind the controls of the plane when pilots nearly flew them into terrain. Just because management probably isn't doing a great job doesn't mean you shouldn't take responsibility for yours.

No lack of training, difference of training, attitudes or changes lead to pilots not following cockpit management.

Anything other than the pilots accepting responsibility for their errors in this case is just silly. Grievances with management while real, have zero to do with this.

If the pilots are truly blaming management for the pilots losing focus, not following cockpit management guidelines and nearly crashing, then that is one scary future for United.

Pilots should pay more attention, and fight management all they want when they are not behind the controls
CO_Nonrev_elite is offline  
Old Mar 17, 2015, 1:57 am
  #93  
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,324
I think that's an overly simplistic black and white perspective...it sounds nice, and simple enough, but in practice, the culture drives performance, and if the culture is one of bottom line (which I've suspected it was ever since 2011 based on a handful of UAL pilots I've known for decades), mistakes happen.
tuolumne is offline  
Old Mar 17, 2015, 7:56 am
  #94  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
WSJ: United Sent Safety Warning to Pilots

So in your thoughts the pilots aren't responsible for doing their jobs safely especially when it's pilot 101 items we are talking about. I'm all for blaming management for some things, but these are outside that scope
CO_Nonrev_elite is offline  
Old Mar 17, 2015, 8:35 am
  #95  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA MM Plat; AA MM Gold; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 15,866
Originally Posted by CO_Nonrev_elite
So in your thoughts the pilots aren't responsible for doing their jobs safely especially when it's pilot 101 items we are talking about. I'm all for blaming management for some things, but these are outside that scope
I am so sick and tired of this management vs employee BS. These purported professionals are acting like children, and similar behavior seems to pervade a lot of industries. I have never seen this type of immature squabbling in my line of work, and I've had contact with scores of companies over the last 35 years.
Bonehead is offline  
Old Mar 17, 2015, 8:42 am
  #96  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: KEWR
Programs: Marriott Platinum
Posts: 790
I totally agree with tuolumne about culture driving performance. Very, very well said.
clubord is offline  
Old Mar 17, 2015, 10:29 am
  #97  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Captain Eric Popper, Chairman
https://www.linkedin.com/pub/eric-popper/5/a96/739 - sUA

Pretty sure the other two are as well from various public data.
sbm12 is offline  
Old Mar 17, 2015, 10:30 am
  #98  
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
Originally Posted by Vulcan
For some strange reason, I don't see this posted at FT. Yet it has been of the pilots public board, www.pprune.org since March 2. It appears to be the response to the United letter:
===============================================

...

Fraternally,

Eric, Carlos, and John
Thank you for posting this.

And, I want to publicly thank the brave, well trained, and conscientious sUA pilots who are standing up against this tyranny to protect the safety of those who fly with them.

I can barely fathom the stress and disappointment faced by top-notch aviation veterans being punished for doing their jobs properly and putting safety first. I have deep compassion and empathy for the suffering you must be experiencing under this regime.
FlyWorld is offline  
Old Mar 17, 2015, 2:28 pm
  #99  
 
Join Date: May 2005
Programs: Million Miler, 1K - Basically spend a lot of time on planes
Posts: 2,202
Originally Posted by clubord
I totally agree with tuolumne about culture driving performance. Very, very well said.
If poor culture can make veteran pilots stop paying attention to cockpit management to the point where they are nearly flying into terrain, then they shouldn't be allowed to fly.

These pilots are actually not taking ANY responsibility for their actions, and literally blaming a guy in an office a thousand miles away for their lack of paying attention to their surroundings... wow
CO_Nonrev_elite is offline  
Old Jun 8, 2015, 2:42 pm
  #100  
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: PHL
Programs: UA 1K 1MM, Marriott Gold, IHG Platinum, Raddison Platinum, Avis Presidents Club
Posts: 5,257
Originally Posted by tuolumne
I think that's an overly simplistic black and white perspective...it sounds nice, and simple enough, but in practice, the culture drives performance, and if the culture is one of bottom line (which I've suspected it was ever since 2011 based on a handful of UAL pilots I've known for decades), mistakes happen.
I completely agree. A company culture can have a profound affect on its employees. A culture that is more focused on the bottom line than safety is just asking for trouble. It's happened so many times in the past. Ofcourse pilots have responsibilities too, but the company culture affects things like training. Poor or inadequate training affects the pilots ability to do their job safely.
Just saying pilots aren't paying attention and putting all the blame on this is short sighted. When that plane crashed at SFO, you wouldn't put all the blame on the pilot. The core cause flows back to the way the company is being run and management is in charge of that.

Are the specific incidents posted anywhere? I'd be interesting in finding out the details.
eng3 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.