tjbrooks

So I was denied use of my daughter's rear-facing car seat (CRS) on a United Express E145 aircraft. The FA made us switch it to forward facing. She said that no rear facing CRS are allowed on the E145. My daughter is still two inches under the seat's minimum 34" reqt for use forward facing.

I asked where that rule was stipulated and she became defensive and claimed she had seen it herself on the website. I knew better than to pursue the matter further. Everything I can find online points to the fact that there's no restriction. I called United and got transferred to Disability Services, and they looked it up, and said that there are no such restrictions. I emailed customer care quoting the FAA guidance and their first response dismissed my claim with clumsy/faulty logic. I replied with further detailed info/questions and they said "Our flight attendant was in compliance with FAA regulations and United Airlines policy regarding placement of the CRS on this aircraft". UA Twitter promised an answer but has gone silent.

Has anyone else been denied use of a rear-facing CRS on United? Any experience with this?

I'm torn between just moving on and attributing it to general UA awfulness but it could potentially be a serious safety issue (especially if it were a non-convertible infant CRS). I know many would want this to moved to Travel with Children, but this seems to be a United issue. We've traveled a half dozen times in AA E145s with no issues.

Tchiowa

United's published rules:

"Infant/child Seats: Children unable to sit upright with the seat belt fastened must be carried in an approved infant/child seat, if not being held by an Adult Passenger as a lap child. Infant/child seats:
a) Must be FAA approved and be clearly marked with the original NHTSA label.
b) Must be used in unoccupied aircraft seats and cannot be held in an adult’s lap.
c) Cannot be used in an Exit Row.
d) Must remain properly secured to an aircraft seat at all times unless stored as a carry-on."

Here is a link to the FAA rules. Kind of confusing and, frankly, inconsistent. For the FAA the rule on rear vs. front facing is weight, not height. But it is also labelled as a suggestion.

http://www.faa.gov/passengers/fly_children/

The critical thing seems to be that the seat is labelled *specifically* that it is approved for use on aircraft. Not just for use in cars.

tjbrooks

I just came across that tonight. However, it's just a suggestion and looks very dated (my guess is it's pre-AAP suggesting rear facing until at least 2). The latest FAA advisory I could find seems to support a "whatever the manufacturer says" policy, which makes the most sense. AND if your assigned seat can't support that, the operator must find one that does.

Pretty much every modern car seat is certified for use on an aircraft. The flight attendant did check that coming in too.

FWAAA

Flight attendants have a big heavy manual for a reason. When flight attendants incorrectly quote their manual, simply ask them to look it up.

I would have continued to install the seat rear-facing and if the ignorant FA gave me any more lip, I would have calmly asked them to look it up and to summon some ground supervisors. Someone in their organization knows the rules or how to look them up.

When you're correct on safety issues, politely stand your ground.

LaserSailor

OT on the rules, but the safety benefit of front vs rear is so minimal that this really isn't worth getting worked up for her benefit. It is different than being in a car. The only measurable danger in the air is from turbulence, or up/down acceleration, where front/rear facing are immaterial. I would guess front facing is actually more secure, from my experience with 6 kids.

Bonehead

I seem to recall a previous discussion of this where it was pointed out that very young children's neck muscles aren't strong enough to deal with the forces involved in aircraft deceleration if facing forward. That was the primary driver for rear-facing child seats.

gobluetwo

One thing to note, however, is that this was a United Express carrier. They may have their own internal regulations about what is acceptable, apart from mainline United.

Remember, some regional carriers are infamous for many arcane rules, like no personal materials in the seatback pockets during takeoff/landing, including paperback books, tablets, and even your own magazines.

It would not surprise me if this were an actual regional carrier rule, although it's more likely that the FA just misunderstood the actual rule.

IMO, not really worth fighting over it. You'll likely get the "safety" spiel.

eng3

I seem to recall my sister telling me that my niece had to sit facing forward as well. I assumed that there may not be enough room reversed with how close together Y seats are these day. Or perhaps it would interfere with recline of the person infront of you.

WineCountryUA

This is key -- the UA rules for mainline operation are of no relevance (but it does confuse the the issue).

The only thing that matters are the FARs for that particular UX carrier (which can and at times are different for UA mainline or other carriers like AA). And one UX carriers FARs can and are different from another UX carriers FARs for the same aircraft. Lousy system for the customer but that's the way it is set up. So calling UA CS will fortunately be useless.

CBear

It's an FAA rule, not an airline rule.

LarryJ

It could be a restriction on that particular fleet due to the design of the seats, or some other factor unique to the airplane. That restriction would likely only be listed in the crews manuals. I have no specific knowledge of any such restrictions that may apply to the E145.

tjbrooks

Aaaand United called to apologize and refund the miles from the infant seat. The flight attendant was wrong. You install the seat per manufacturer directions.

LaserSailor

The Physics of this are correct, but this is like worrying about an asteroid strike vs the turbulence event. It is a very different risk assessment than autos.

Baze

Maybe so, but a carrier or manufacturer can have more restrictive rules, just not more lax rules. So the right thing to do would have been to call the operator of the UX flight and find out what their rules are for that plane.

LASUA1K

Does the seat fit? On the mainline fleet it was always hard to face them backwards as they would hit the seat in front.

I flew WN mostly with my twins, and WN was great to always give us a seat for free. I would book 2 tickets for the twins, if the GA said they had seats available, I would cancel for free and take the 2 free seats..

But on WN, I always tried to have myself or wife, in front of the rear facing seat, as that wouldn't bother another Passenger from reclining.