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UA Orders Boeing 777-300ERs / 77Ws w/ 1-2-1 Polaris Business, 3-4-3 Economy

Old Dec 9, 2016, 11:15 am
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UA Orders Boeing 777-300ERs / 77Ws w/ 1-2-1 Polaris Business, 3-4-3 Economy

Old Apr 24, 2015, 8:53 pm
  #271  
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Originally Posted by LarkSFO
PS you may tell me 'I told you so' if what you predict actually becomes reality.
Really he has to give you 100-1 odds. Anyone can predict that something that has a 60% chance of happening has a 99% chance, and they can still claim to be "right" more than half the time. But that doesn't mean the original prediction wasn't hyperbolic.
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Old Apr 24, 2015, 11:35 pm
  #272  
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Originally Posted by LarkSFO
So, without any basis in reality or fact, you are claiming to be 99% (or maybe 100, the inverse of 0) certain that UA will go with 10 abreast in E- and E+ on these new A/C?

Thank you voice of reason.

PS you may tell me 'I told you so' if what you predict actually becomes reality.
Well let's be realistic...look who is in charge at UA, look how they (copy) design strategy and look who they pander to. My prediction isn't exactly a stretch.

I would love to be wrong in this case.
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 12:27 am
  #273  
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
Well let's be realistic...look who is in charge at UA, look how they (copy) design strategy and look who they pander to.
What I see is that they like to upsell and so they are going to be inclined to create possibilities for upselling.

Maybe I'm looking through different lenses than you are.
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 1:01 am
  #274  
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Originally Posted by EWR764
I'm not so sure. I think it's a given the E- will be 10-abreast, we need to hold out hope that E+ keeps the current configuration.
If UA management really cares about customer comfort, 9 across in E+ should be a given. If all of Y is 10 across, that will be the definitive statement as to how they really regard their customers.

Originally Posted by LarkSFO
So, without any basis in reality or fact, you are claiming to be 99% (or maybe 100, the inverse of 0) certain that UA will go with 10 abreast in E- and E+ on these new A/C?

Thank you voice of reason.

PS you may tell me 'I told you so' if what you predict actually becomes reality.
one only needs to look at the slimline seats that are being installed on the NB aircraft to gauge current management's views on customer comfort. They don't care, so why would we believe they suddenly have a change of heart?

Last edited by halls120; Apr 25, 2015 at 1:09 am
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 1:08 am
  #275  
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Originally Posted by halls120
If UA management really cares about customer comfort, 9 across in E+ should be a given. If all of Y is 10 across, that will be the definitive statement as to how they really regard their customers.
Let's frame this post...but I think we will soon find out exactly how we're regarded
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 1:54 am
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Smile

Originally Posted by VNAFlyer
UA gets deep discounts on 77Ws, which they probably needed anyway.
Boeing gets a better shot at the 777 production line going right into 777X development.
Boeing frees up 789 slots to move up their delivery timetables.
All airlines in queue after UA gets slightly closer to their original delivery date.
UA's seat supplier gets to get rid of excess inventory

All in all, not a bad show for all involved.
Oh Wise UA FT Sages:

Am I the only one on this thread that finds it odd that UA would trade away technologically advanced aircraft options (i.e. 789s) for planes with 20 year old technology (i.e. 777s ) ? I personally was excited about the 787 aircraft and all of the new options (higher air pressure, added humidity, bigger windows, ambient light, etc). Will the new 777s have any of these new technological options ??

I have a theory about why UA is making this switch which has not yet been covered in this thread. Sure, UA got a deep discount for the 777s and Boeing gave them consideration (cash) for their 787 options, but the likely new High Density seating arrangements on the new 777s is a clue to my theory.

I believe the industry is being set up for a worldwide pilot shortage. UA is not the only airline taking these HD actions (AC, LH and even some EK aircraft have HD configs). I believe that the A380, which has had a dismal commercial debut, will within 5 years be the darling of the industry as worldwide seat demand grows exponentially but the pilot supply remains flat or dwindles.

Also, the USA demographics (i.e. aging population, more folks on a fixed income, overall lower wages, etc.) where UA is based, suggest that passengers are more price sensitive than ever. UA is likely betting that most travelers will become even more price conscious and will "suck it up" in 17 inch wide seats with 31 inch pitch. Heck, this is standard on LH and they pack them in !!!

Further, there is a wide income disparity in the USA and there are folks of means where price is not so much the issue but rather value, and UA will provide a product that is competitive to other airlines premium classes. With the increasingly more uncomfortable Y sections, these folks will stump up the extra fees to be seated in J. For those seeking upgrades, expect the Miles, fees and co-pays to rise exponentially.

Overall I am disappointed in the trade (777 for 787) decision, but the future for us travelers, especially those in international Y, is bleak.
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 3:44 am
  #277  
 
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Originally Posted by gpicur
Oh Wise UA FT Sages:

Am I the only one on this thread that finds it odd that UA would trade away technologically advanced aircraft options (i.e. 789s) for planes with 20 year old technology (i.e. 777s ) ? I personally was excited about the 787 aircraft and all of the new options (higher air pressure, added humidity, bigger windows, ambient light, etc). Will the new 777s have any of these new technological options ??
....
Personally I think the 787 is a lemon. I flew 787s from KQ and QR last month and they were always late leaving for their home base by more than few hours. I look at the aircraft type and try to avoid the 787s as they are more likely to be delayed.
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 7:34 am
  #278  
 
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Originally Posted by gpicur
Oh Wise UA FT Sages:

Am I the only one on this thread that finds it odd that UA would trade away technologically advanced aircraft options (i.e. 789s) for planes with 20 year old technology (i.e. 777s ) ? I personally was excited about the 787 aircraft and all of the new options (higher air pressure, added humidity, bigger windows, ambient light, etc). Will the new 777s have any of these new technological options ??

I have a theory about why UA is making this switch which has not yet been covered in this thread. Sure, UA got a deep discount for the 777s and Boeing gave them consideration (cash) for their 787 options, but the likely new High Density seating arrangements on the new 777s is a clue to my theory.

I believe the industry is being set up for a worldwide pilot shortage. UA is not the only airline taking these HD actions (AC, LH and even some EK aircraft have HD configs). I believe that the A380, which has had a dismal commercial debut, will within 5 years be the darling of the industry as worldwide seat demand grows exponentially but the pilot supply remains flat or dwindles.

Also, the USA demographics (i.e. aging population, more folks on a fixed income, overall lower wages, etc.) where UA is based, suggest that passengers are more price sensitive than ever. UA is likely betting that most travelers will become even more price conscious and will "suck it up" in 17 inch wide seats with 31 inch pitch. Heck, this is standard on LH and they pack them in !!!

Further, there is a wide income disparity in the USA and there are folks of means where price is not so much the issue but rather value, and UA will provide a product that is competitive to other airlines premium classes. With the increasingly more uncomfortable Y sections, these folks will stump up the extra fees to be seated in J. For those seeking upgrades, expect the Miles, fees and co-pays to rise exponentially.

Overall I am disappointed in the trade (777 for 787) decision, but the future for us travelers, especially those in international Y, is bleak.
The 777-300ER is not 20 year old technology. It has a new wing and engines (vs. 777-200ER) and entered service about 10 years ago. What United is trading is smaller for larger airplanes with a probably comparable acquisition cost.

The 777-300ER is a direct, albeit older generation, competitor with the A350-1000. I think it's most interesting that United is wiling to introduce a new type into its fleet when its replacement goes into service in 2 years. I would not be surprised to see the A350-1000 deliveries delayed in exchange for cheaper 777s.
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 8:23 am
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Originally Posted by TravellingMan
Personally I think the 787 is a lemon. I flew 787s from KQ and QR last month and they were always late leaving for their home base by more than few hours. I look at the aircraft type and try to avoid the 787s as they are more likely to be delayed.
That's a small sample, but only time will tell.

I've been on the 787 long-haul twice now and always try to book it if possible (and both have been on time!). I believe there is something to the claim that higher pressure and humidity make things a bit more comfortable.

Back on topic though, I hope that UA doesn't go for the 10 across in E! Or if they do, at least provide a proper Premium Economy option with wider seats, like BA and VS, airlines that I'm starting to fly more. The price difference between E and C on UA is huge, and if they want us to actually pay for upgrades, they would be best served to provide options at reasonable price points.
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 8:38 am
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Originally Posted by fly18725
The 777-300ER is not 20 year old technology. It has a new wing and engines (vs. 777-200ER) and entered service about 10 years ago. What United is trading is smaller for larger airplanes with a probably comparable acquisition cost.

The 777-300ER is a direct, albeit older generation, competitor with the A350-1000. I think it's most interesting that United is wiling to introduce a new type into its fleet when its replacement goes into service in 2 years. I would not be surprised to see the A350-1000 deliveries delayed in exchange for cheaper 777s.
Keep in mind United's 77Ws will be delivered with the new Performance Improvement Package (PIP). The PIP will allow them to pack in more seats and reduce fuel burn by another 2%. This will enable the 77W to have longer range than the expected A350-1000. EWR-HKG won't have to be so weight restricted as before should the 77W be put on this route, very likely in my opinion.
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 8:47 am
  #281  
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Originally Posted by StingWest
Or if they do, at least provide a proper Premium Economy option with wider seats, like BA and VS, airlines that I'm starting to fly more.
If UA starts up a Premium Economy cabin, I'm sure you'd have to pay for it to request a Business Class upgrade. Ugrading from Economy would only get you to Premium Economy.
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 9:53 am
  #282  
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Originally Posted by mahasamatman
If UA starts up a Premium Economy cabin, I'm sure you'd have to pay for it to request a Business Class upgrade. Ugrading from Economy would only get you to Premium Economy.
Not so different from the W premium UA already imposes on GPUs. In some ways better (even if slightly more expensive) because at least the fallback - a seat in PE - would not be complete waste of the additional fare.
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 2:11 pm
  #283  
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Originally Posted by gpicur
Am I the only one on this thread that finds it odd that UA would trade away technologically advanced aircraft options (i.e. 789s) for planes with 20 year old technology (i.e. 777s ) ? I personally was excited about the 787 aircraft and all of the new options (higher air pressure, added humidity, bigger windows, ambient light, etc). Will the new 777s have any of these new technological options ??
No, it's the same basic 1990s airframe with a winglet/engine update in 2005 and possibly newer overhead lighting. No air pressure, humidity, or window improvements on the two decade old 777s UA already operates.

Originally Posted by gpicur
I have a theory about why UA is making this switch which has not yet been covered in this thread. Sure, UA got a deep discount for the 777s and Boeing gave them consideration (cash) for their 787 options, but the likely new High Density seating arrangements on the new 777s is a clue to my theory.

I believe the industry is being set up for a worldwide pilot shortage. UA is not the only airline taking these HD actions (AC, LH and even some EK aircraft have HD configs). I believe that the A380, which has had a dismal commercial debut, will within 5 years be the darling of the industry as worldwide seat demand grows exponentially but the pilot supply remains flat or dwindles.
The current.... lets call them structural issues rather than a shortage... in the pilot market are impacting the 20, 30, 40, 50 seat aircraft. They have no impact now nor in the foreseeable future on the 250, 350 seat market.
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 2:56 pm
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Has UA Confirmed the cabin layout for the 77W's?
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Old Apr 25, 2015, 3:37 pm
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Boeing has tried to market humidity, pressure, and windows as big improvements, but there's little evidence that the flying public is willing to pay more for these things.
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