Nov 7, 2015, 1:37 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
DoT is proposing new IDB rules effective 21 April 2021
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DoT's 14 CFR Part 250 - OVERSALES
DoT's WRITTEN EXPLANATION OF DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION AND BOARDING PRIORITIES
DoT's A Consumer Guide to Air Travel -- see Overbooking
UA's Contact of Carriage -- see RULE 25 DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION
IMPORTANT: Per the DOT reg linked above, IDB compensation only applies if the flight is oversold.
-- There must be a request for volunteers
-- The IDBed individual must be given a written explanation
-- Compensation must be in cash or check form unless passengers agrees to other method
-- Delay is to destination or first stopover (a deliberate interruption of a journey by the passenger, scheduled to exceed 4 hours)
Domestic Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 2 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 2 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
International Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 4 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 4 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
Exemptions
UA provided the following in its United Express Flight 3411 Review and Action Report
FAQS
As a cleared Standby passenger, am I protect / due compensation if IDB'ed?
Appears no
My DOT contact just replied with similar information. He's a recently retired DOT official who spent his career handling these types of issues and interacting with the public. He gave me permission to post his response.
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DoT's 14 CFR Part 250 - OVERSALES
DoT's WRITTEN EXPLANATION OF DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION AND BOARDING PRIORITIES
DoT's A Consumer Guide to Air Travel -- see Overbooking
UA's Contact of Carriage -- see RULE 25 DENIED BOARDING COMPENSATION
IMPORTANT: Per the DOT reg linked above, IDB compensation only applies if the flight is oversold.
-- There must be a request for volunteers
-- The IDBed individual must be given a written explanation
-- Compensation must be in cash or check form unless passengers agrees to other method
-- Delay is to destination or first stopover (a deliberate interruption of a journey by the passenger, scheduled to exceed 4 hours)
Domestic Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 2 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 2 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
International Compensation
0 to 1 hour arrival delay ... No compensation
1 to 4 hour arrival delay ... 200% of one-way fare (but no more than $675)
Over 4 hours arrival delay ... 400% of one-way fare (but no more than $1,350)
If your ticket does not show a fare (for example, a frequent-flyer award ticket or a ticket issued by a consolidator), your denied boarding compensation is based on the lowest cash, check or credit card payment charged for a ticket in the same class of service (e.g., coach, first class) on that flight.
If you are denied boarding involuntarily, you are entitled to a payment of “denied boarding compensation” from the airline unless:
(1) you have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or
(2) you are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
(3) you are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons; or
(4) on a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
(5) you are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
(6) the airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of your original flight.
(1) you have not fully complied with the airline’s ticketing, check-in and reconfirmation requirements, or you are not acceptable for transportation under the airline’s usual rules and practices; or
(2) you are denied boarding because the flight is canceled; or
(3) you are denied boarding because a smaller capacity aircraft was substituted for safety or operational reasons; or
(4) on a flight operated with an aircraft having 60 or fewer seats, you are denied boarding due to safety-related weight/balance restrictions that limit payload; or
(5) you are offered accommodations in a section of the aircraft other than specified in your ticket, at no extra charge (a passenger seated in a section for which a lower fare is charged must be given an appropriate refund); or
(6) the airline is able to place you on another flight or flights that are planned to reach your next stopover or final destination within one hour of the planned arrival time of your original flight.
Rule 25 Denied Boarding Compensation
A. Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:1. Request for Volunteersa. UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:a. Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.a. UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarilya. For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:i. The flight is cancelled;
ii. The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
iii. The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
iv. The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
v. The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
vi. The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
vii. The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5. Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Pointa. Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passenger’s convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UA’s liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
A. Denied Boarding (U.S.A./Canadian Flight Origin) - When there is an Oversold UA flight that originates in the U.S.A. or Canada, the following provisions apply:1. Request for Volunteersa. UA will request Passengers who are willing to relinquish their confirmed reserved space in exchange for compensation in an amount determined by UA (including but not limited to check or an electronic travel certificate). The travel certificate will be valid only for travel on UA or designated Codeshare partners for one year from the date of issue and will have no refund value. If a Passenger is asked to volunteer, UA will not later deny boarding to that Passenger involuntarily unless that Passenger was informed at the time he was asked to volunteer that there was a possibility of being denied boarding involuntarily and of the amount of compensation to which he/she would have been entitled in that event. The request for volunteers and the selection of such person to be denied space will be in a manner determined solely by UA.
2. Boarding Priorities - If a flight is Oversold, no one may be denied boarding against his/her will until UA or other carrier personnel first ask for volunteers who will give up their reservations willingly in exchange for compensation as determined by UA. If there are not enough volunteers, other Passengers may be denied boarding involuntarily in accordance with UA’s boarding priority:a. Passengers who are Qualified Individuals with Disabilities, unaccompanied minors under the age of 18 years, or minors between the ages of 5 to 15 years who use the unaccompanied minor service, will be the last to be involuntarily denied boarding if it is determined by UA that such denial would constitute a hardship.
b. The priority of all other confirmed passengers may be determined based on a passenger’s fare class, itinerary, status of frequent flyer program membership, and the time in which the passenger presents him/herself for check-in without advanced seat assignment.
3. Transportation for Passengers Denied Boarding - When UA is unable to provide previously confirmed space due to an Oversold flight, UA will provide transportation to such Passengers who have been denied boarding whether voluntarily or involuntarily in accordance with the provisions below.a. UA will transport the Passenger on its own flight to the Destination without Stopover on its next flight on which space is available at no additional cost to the Passenger, regardless of class of service.
b. If space is available on another Carrier’s flight regardless of class of service, such flights may be used upon United’s sole discretion and the Passenger’s request at no additional cost to the Passenger only if such flight provides an earlier arrival than the UA flight offered in 3) a) above.
4. Compensation for Passengers Denied Boarding Involuntarilya. For passengers traveling in interstate transportation between points within the United States, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than two hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
b. For passengers traveling from the United States to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a U.S. airport at the rate of 200% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination, with a maximum of 675 USD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight at the rate of 400% of the fare to the Passenger’s first Stopover or, if none, Destination with a maximum of 1350 USD.
c. For passengers traveling from Canada to a foreign point, subject to the EXCEPTIONS in section d) below, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight originating at a Canadian airport with a maximum of 200 CAD if UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than one hour but less than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight. If UA offers Alternate Transportation that, at the time the arrangement is made, is planned to arrive at the Passenger’s Destination or first Stopover more than four hours after the planned arrival time of the Passenger’s original flight, UA shall pay compensation to Passengers denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight with a maximum of 300 CAD. At the passenger’s request, compensation in the form of check, wire transfer, visa card, or a travel voucher will be made by UA, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA.
d. EXCEPTIONS: A Passenger denied boarding involuntarily from an Oversold Flight shall not be eligible for denied boarding compensation if:i. The flight is cancelled;
ii. The Passenger holding a Ticket for confirmed reserved space does not comply fully with the requirements in this Contract of Carriage Requirements regarding ticketing, check-in, reconfirmation procedures, and acceptance for transportation;
iii. The flight for which the Passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate the Passenger because of substitution of equipment of lesser capacity when required by operational or safety reasons or, on an aircraft with a designed passenger capacity of 60 or fewer seats, the flight for which the passenger holds confirmed reserved space is unable to accommodate that passenger due to weight/balance restrictions when required by operational or safety reasons;
iv. The Passenger is offered accommodations or is seated in a section of the aircraft other than that specified on his/her ticket at no extra charge. Provided, if a Passenger is seated in a section for which a lower fare applies, the Passenger will be entitled to a refund applicable to the difference in fares;
v. The Passenger is accommodated on Alternate Transportation at no extra cost, which at the time such arrangements are made, is planned to arrive at the airport of the Passenger’s next Stopover, (if any), or at the Destination, not later than 60 minutes after the planned arrival time of the flight on which the Passenger held confirmed reserved space;
vi. The Passenger is an employee of UA or of another Carrier or other person traveling without a confirmed reserved space; or
vii. The Passenger does not present him/herself at the loading gate for boarding at least 15 minutes prior to scheduled domestic departures, and 30 minutes prior to scheduled international departures. See Rule 5 D) for additional information regarding boarding cut-off times.
5. Payment Time and Form for Passengers Traveling Between Points within the United States or from the United States to a Foreign Pointa. Compensation in the form of check will be made by UA on the day and at the place where the failure to provide confirmed reserved space occurs, and if accepted by the Passenger, the Passenger will provide a signed receipt to UA. However, when UA has arranged, for the Passenger’s convenience, Alternate Transportation that departs before the compensation to the Passenger under this provision can be prepared and given to the Passenger, the compensation shall be sent by mail or other means to the Passenger within 24 hours thereafter.
b. UA may offer free or reduced rate air transportation in lieu of a check payment due under this Rule, if the value of the transportation credit offered is equal to or greater than the monetary compensation otherwise due and UA informs the Passenger of the amount and that the Passenger may decline the transportation benefit and receive the monetary compensation.
6. Limitation of Liability - If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is accepted by the Passenger, such payment will constitute full compensation for all actual or anticipatory damages incurred or to be incurred by the Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. If UA’s offer of compensation pursuant to the above provisions is not accepted, UA’s liability is limited to actual damages proved not to exceed 1350 USD per Ticketed Passenger as a result of UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space. Passenger will be responsible for providing documentation of all actual damages claimed. UA shall not be liable for any punitive, consequential or special damages arising out of or in connection with UA’s failure to provide the Passenger with confirmed reserved space.
B. Denied Boarding Non-U.S.A./Canada Flight Origin - Where there is an Oversold UA flight that originates outside the U.S.A. or Canada, no compensation will be provided except where required by local or international laws regulating Oversold flights.
Involuntary Denied Boarding (IDB) Selection Process
United's involuntary denied boarding (IDB) process is automated and customers are not subject to discretionary choice by agents. This is our process:
United's involuntary denied boarding (IDB) process is automated and customers are not subject to discretionary choice by agents. This is our process:
- First, agents will deny boarding if a passenger does not have a seat assignment prior to boarding the aircraft.
- Customers are then sorted by fare class (estimated fare paid) and type of itinerary.
- Customers with the lowest paid fare are placed at the top of the list for involuntary denial of boarding.
- If a group of customers paid the same fare, then the group is sorted by time of check-in.
- Customers with frequent flyer status will not be involuntarily denied boarding, unless all of the remaining passengers have frequent flyer status, in which case the lowest status will move to the top of the IDB list.
- Customers with special needs (unaccompanied minors, passengers with disabilities) are excluded and are not involuntarily denied boarding.
As a cleared Standby passenger, am I protect / due compensation if IDB'ed?
Appears no
The DOT representative responded to me today and said that United's interpretation is correct. 14 CFR 250 only applies to confirmed reserved space, which does not cover standby passengers. So kudos to those here who knew!
It is an interesting interpretation because when I was given a BP, my reservation on the later flight was cancelled. So does that mean that technically at that moment I had no confirmed, reserved space on any flight? Maybe flying standby to leave early is riskier than I thought!
…
It is an interesting interpretation because when I was given a BP, my reservation on the later flight was cancelled. So does that mean that technically at that moment I had no confirmed, reserved space on any flight? Maybe flying standby to leave early is riskier than I thought!
…
Although Part 250 uses (and defines) the term “confirmed reserved space,” neither DOT, nor to my knowledge the industry, has distinguished between a reservation that is confirmed and one that is not. DOT has never acknowledged the existence of a reservation that is not confirmed. You either have a reservation or you don’t. In that sense, the word “confirmed” in the term “confirmed reserved space” (a term that goes back to the original Part 250 that was enacted fifty years ago) is redundant.
When a standby passenger is boarded – even with a seat assignment and boarding pass – this does not constitute issuing him/her confirmed reserved space. I see nothing in the definition of “confirmed reserved space” in section 250.1 that implies that clearing standby gives a passenger “confirmed reserved space.” When a flight is oversold, airlines make every effort to ensure that individuals who need to be bumped involuntarily will be denied boarding before they are boarded. That’s simply the easiest way for everyone – the airline and the passengers. But occasionally a standby passenger needs to be removed after having been boarded. That does not entitle that passenger to the protections of Part 250, as he/she never had a reservation.
Part 250 doesn’t say that passengers can’t be bumped after being boarded.
When a standby passenger is boarded – even with a seat assignment and boarding pass – this does not constitute issuing him/her confirmed reserved space. I see nothing in the definition of “confirmed reserved space” in section 250.1 that implies that clearing standby gives a passenger “confirmed reserved space.” When a flight is oversold, airlines make every effort to ensure that individuals who need to be bumped involuntarily will be denied boarding before they are boarded. That’s simply the easiest way for everyone – the airline and the passengers. But occasionally a standby passenger needs to be removed after having been boarded. That does not entitle that passenger to the protections of Part 250, as he/she never had a reservation.
Part 250 doesn’t say that passengers can’t be bumped after being boarded.
The changing story of IDB on UA since the merge and post-Dao
source: BTS Data
source: BTS Data
Code:
IDB/VDB data for UA 1st Qtr Year VDB IDB 2019 8,856 14 2018 8,214 27 2017 15,917 900 2016 14,380 929 2015 17,373 1,817 2014 21,469 4,395 2013 14,095 2,592
Is this IDB? Am I entitled to IDB compensation? [Consolidated]
Jun 12, 2015, 12:38 am
#46
Join Date: Feb 2006
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Posts: 3,952
In interlining, the originating carrier cannot "issue" a boarding pass. It can only request, through EDIFACT, to the downline carrier to do so, and then it simply prints out a boarding pass on behalf of the downline carrier with whatever fields the downline carrier returned through EDIFACT (and of course there are standards for this, ensuring compatibility).
By the looks of things, OP's friend was printed such a "BP" by UA. Many of us recognize the word "Paper" and missing ticket number to mean that the gate agent was expecting a ticket (physical or etkt) in conjunction with that "BP" in order for the pax to board. AA initiated the problem by either 1) improperly pushing the ticket over to UA; or 2) forgetting to print the paper ticket. UA added to the problem by not informing the pax that he did not have a ticket in his reservation. No pax, regardless of how experienced they are with airline travel, should be expected to know this quirky feature.
Jun 12, 2015, 1:18 am
#47
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
It sounds to be like UA Involuntarily denied him boarding. He had a valid boarding pass with a confirmation number (he showed it to me), it wasn't an endorsed ticket nor was he on standby. He checked-in with UA and they gave him actual boarding passes.
Per the DOT regs, he would be owed 400% of the one way fare because he got to his first connection city 2 hours late. However, what is the one way fare? Is it what he paid AA?
DOT has not clerified, although there are scattered reports of denials of boarding getting compensation where a mistake might be at issue.
That said, IMHE, as others have said, the problem was the UA agent was incompetent, failed to print/sink the ticket that was sent over. I have personally had this happen (DL weather delay, resulting in a misconnect, they offered to send me on UA, UA messed it up, and the Delta agent at Seattle actually walked over and showed the UA agent how to do it) and don't think the fault was with AA, and if it was the UA agent should have caught it.
I would just go ahead and file a DOT complaint, explain you were checked in, given doc to gate, send the PDF, and then say they not only refused to board you, but said htey would not fix the issues, dispute it being x minutes from flight time. Say they did not offer IDB compensation.
At best you get it, at worst you get nothing, but please report back. I (and others) are curious what DOT will say.
Address for complaint is here:
"Like all rules, however, there are a few conditions and exceptions:
To be eligible for compensation, you must have a confirmed reservation. A written confirmation issued by the airline or an authorized agent or reservation service qualifies you in this regard even if the airline can't find your reservation in the computer, as long as you didn't cancel your reservation or miss a reconfirmation deadline.
Each airline has a check-in deadline, which is the amount of time before scheduled departure that you must present yourself to the airline at the airport. For domestic flights most carriers require you to be at the departure gate between 10 minutes and 30 minutes before scheduled departure, but some deadlines can be an hour or longer. Check-in deadlines on international flights can be as much as three hours before scheduled departure time. Some airlines may simply require you to be at the ticket/baggage counter by this time; most, however, require that you get all the way to the boarding area. Some may have deadlines at both locations. If you miss the check-in deadline, you may have lost your reservation and your right to compensation if the flight is oversold.
- See more at: http://www.transportation.gov/airconsumer/fly-rights#sthash.2EbKKspq.dpuf"
I am of the view that DOT will not look kindly on what UA did, as it may be an effort to evade IDBing someone.
DING DING DING! In looking at the boarding pass, instead of a ticket number on the lower left hand corner, it says paper, which indicates that AA did not push the ticket over to UA correctly, or UA's SHARE system did not receive the ticket correctly. The alternative would have been have AA print out the ticket on a ticket stock, or have UA agent manually enter the ticket number and re-sync the reservation.
I'd just file a complaint with DOT. Nonsense like this, whoever is to blame, needs to stop. But it is not "invol. denied boarding" in the sense of the overbooking scenario, so don't use those terms since they unfortunately are generally understood to refer to overbooking.
Nov 7, 2015, 12:20 pm
#48
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: HKG • Ex SFO, NYC
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Posts: 3,319
IDB Comp when cleared from Standby
Was on a SFO-AUS flight yesterday. With that ATC-flooding fiasco, 2/3 flights to AUS were cancelled or severely delayed. Mine was cancelled. After a lot of pain, ended up taking a SFO-IAH, and waitlisting for the next IAH-AUS flight. So far, I'm out of luck and UA doesn't owe me anything since the issues were "weather related."
So I'm on standby for the IAH-AUS flight, and it's looking pretty dim. My girlfriend is just ahead of me on standby (#11 and I'm #12). Luckily enough, at the very last minute we both made it. There was nobody from the list present between me and a GM on ~#30, so he gets it too.
I get on the plane, boarding pass for 35B in hand. Lucky GM behind me makes it to his 36E seat. Someone is already seated in my seat. Turns out they assigned 35B twice. Now there really aren't any seats left on the plane. Angry GA asks me to leave the plane, and once I'm off tells me to go wait on standby for the next flight (also oversold, this time on a CRJ7). I inquire about compensation, and the GA starts getting angry, raising his voice at me and telling me that I'm not entitled to anything, that I'm not a "real passenger" since I was cleared from standby, and if I wanted to complain I'd have to email customer support.
Eventually, made it to the gate for the next flight, and talked to a supervisor over there that told me that the original GAs screwed up and gives me a $250 travel certificate. Just barely cleared and made it on the flight, which was further delayed by MX. Eventually made it to AUS after midnight (originally scheduled arrival in AUS: 7:30pm).
Question #1: in this situation, what am I actually entitled to?
Question #2: if UA failed to get me to my final destination on time (e.g. stranding me in Houston overnight), what am I entitled to (compensation or accommodation)?
So I'm on standby for the IAH-AUS flight, and it's looking pretty dim. My girlfriend is just ahead of me on standby (#11 and I'm #12). Luckily enough, at the very last minute we both made it. There was nobody from the list present between me and a GM on ~#30, so he gets it too.
I get on the plane, boarding pass for 35B in hand. Lucky GM behind me makes it to his 36E seat. Someone is already seated in my seat. Turns out they assigned 35B twice. Now there really aren't any seats left on the plane. Angry GA asks me to leave the plane, and once I'm off tells me to go wait on standby for the next flight (also oversold, this time on a CRJ7). I inquire about compensation, and the GA starts getting angry, raising his voice at me and telling me that I'm not entitled to anything, that I'm not a "real passenger" since I was cleared from standby, and if I wanted to complain I'd have to email customer support.
Eventually, made it to the gate for the next flight, and talked to a supervisor over there that told me that the original GAs screwed up and gives me a $250 travel certificate. Just barely cleared and made it on the flight, which was further delayed by MX. Eventually made it to AUS after midnight (originally scheduled arrival in AUS: 7:30pm).
Question #1: in this situation, what am I actually entitled to?
Question #2: if UA failed to get me to my final destination on time (e.g. stranding me in Houston overnight), what am I entitled to (compensation or accommodation)?
Last edited by helvetic; Nov 7, 2015 at 12:48 pm
Nov 7, 2015, 12:28 pm
#49
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Truthfully?
Save yourself a whole lotta angst, take the $250, and be glad you were only 5 hours late rather than getting stuck overnight. Since it was weather related, UA's default is to provide nothing at all. The whole thing sounds like a clusterflog that may be best forgotten while you get on with your life.
Save yourself a whole lotta angst, take the $250, and be glad you were only 5 hours late rather than getting stuck overnight. Since it was weather related, UA's default is to provide nothing at all. The whole thing sounds like a clusterflog that may be best forgotten while you get on with your life.
Nov 7, 2015, 12:34 pm
#50
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IDB Comp when cleared from Standby
For #1, I understand once you are confirmed and have a BP, you are the same as any other confirmed pax and are entitled to IDB compression - which should be in cash (unless you are ok with an ETC, but personally, I would only take an ETC if they offered more vs. cash).
For #2, you are "entitled" to zero, especially if an ATC issue which is out of UA control. However, if you wrote into UA my guess is they will send you some comp, either several thousand RDM or an ETC, and status and length of delay will likely factor into the amount. FYI, the last time I was significantly delayed due to MX, I proactively was sent a $250 ETC (was a gold at the time, IIRC) for a 4 hour MX delay, but that was about a year and half ago so not sure if that standard has changed.
For #2, you are "entitled" to zero, especially if an ATC issue which is out of UA control. However, if you wrote into UA my guess is they will send you some comp, either several thousand RDM or an ETC, and status and length of delay will likely factor into the amount. FYI, the last time I was significantly delayed due to MX, I proactively was sent a $250 ETC (was a gold at the time, IIRC) for a 4 hour MX delay, but that was about a year and half ago so not sure if that standard has changed.
Nov 7, 2015, 1:25 pm
#51
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1. Both the GA and OP were wrong. The specific flight was not operating in interstate transportation (take a look at 14 CFR 250.2), so the specific DOT rule does not apply.
2. There is no delay compensation in the US. Carriers may choose to provide compensation by contract and UA does not unless the reason for the delay is within its control. Your claim should be to your travel insurance, which ought to pay up pretty quickly.
2. There is no delay compensation in the US. Carriers may choose to provide compensation by contract and UA does not unless the reason for the delay is within its control. Your claim should be to your travel insurance, which ought to pay up pretty quickly.
Nov 7, 2015, 2:36 pm
#52
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Dec 28, 2015, 12:18 pm
#53
Join Date: Dec 2015
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Involuntary De-boarding
Hi FT!
So I just had one of the worst flying experiences of my life and a friend of mine turned me to this forum to seek help. Anyway here is what happened:
So a bit of background about my status on United, for 2015, I am a Star alliance gold member, and have had gold, 1k or platinum since 2008. I booked a ticket to go see my family for Christmas from EWR to DEN using miles. I used 25,000 miles to buy this ticket. I selected my seat when I purchased the ticket, and checked in the day before and even called that day to confirm my seat on the plane. I arrived at the airport early, checked my luggage and proceeded to the gate. The flight was apparently over sold and they were offering $500 to anyone willing to take a later flight, though no accepted this offer as this was the last flight to Denver on Christmas eve, and I don't think $500 was worth it to miss Christmas for anyone on the plane. I boarded with group 2, and got settled in my seat, putting my stuff away and preparing for takeoff. As the boarding continued, a woman dressed in a United flight attendant uniform approached me and said that I was in her seat. I told her that this was my seat, as she could see from my ticket. She left to discuss things with the gate agent and then came back and told me I had to collect my stuff and go discuss things with the gate agent, as there had been a mixup. I got off the plane and the gate agent told me they were sorry but they had to give my seat away to another passenger. She also told me there were no other flights they could get me on that night. Forcing me to miss Christmas with my family aside, what I don't understand is how they could do this AFTER they had already boarded me and I was seated. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before?? Further, wouldn't the selection for who gets bumped be based on status? I can't imagine I would have had the lowest status on the flight. As compensation for this, they initially told me they could offer me $1350, and 2 minutes later rescinded that offer saying they could only give me $452 because I bought the flight with miles, which was less than what they were offering ANYONE on the plane to take a later flight! I was blown away by this. After further argument with the customer service representative, he was able to give me a $700 travel voucher for my troubles, but could not go up to $1350. I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on this incident, as I did not even know what they did was legal. I followed up with United.com and thus far they sent me an apology and said they could give me an extra 15k miles. Should I be expecting more??
So I just had one of the worst flying experiences of my life and a friend of mine turned me to this forum to seek help. Anyway here is what happened:
So a bit of background about my status on United, for 2015, I am a Star alliance gold member, and have had gold, 1k or platinum since 2008. I booked a ticket to go see my family for Christmas from EWR to DEN using miles. I used 25,000 miles to buy this ticket. I selected my seat when I purchased the ticket, and checked in the day before and even called that day to confirm my seat on the plane. I arrived at the airport early, checked my luggage and proceeded to the gate. The flight was apparently over sold and they were offering $500 to anyone willing to take a later flight, though no accepted this offer as this was the last flight to Denver on Christmas eve, and I don't think $500 was worth it to miss Christmas for anyone on the plane. I boarded with group 2, and got settled in my seat, putting my stuff away and preparing for takeoff. As the boarding continued, a woman dressed in a United flight attendant uniform approached me and said that I was in her seat. I told her that this was my seat, as she could see from my ticket. She left to discuss things with the gate agent and then came back and told me I had to collect my stuff and go discuss things with the gate agent, as there had been a mixup. I got off the plane and the gate agent told me they were sorry but they had to give my seat away to another passenger. She also told me there were no other flights they could get me on that night. Forcing me to miss Christmas with my family aside, what I don't understand is how they could do this AFTER they had already boarded me and I was seated. Has anyone ever seen anything like this before?? Further, wouldn't the selection for who gets bumped be based on status? I can't imagine I would have had the lowest status on the flight. As compensation for this, they initially told me they could offer me $1350, and 2 minutes later rescinded that offer saying they could only give me $452 because I bought the flight with miles, which was less than what they were offering ANYONE on the plane to take a later flight! I was blown away by this. After further argument with the customer service representative, he was able to give me a $700 travel voucher for my troubles, but could not go up to $1350. I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on this incident, as I did not even know what they did was legal. I followed up with United.com and thus far they sent me an apology and said they could give me an extra 15k miles. Should I be expecting more??
Dec 28, 2015, 1:08 pm
#54
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IDB is based on criteria established by UA and generally awards would come near the top. *G without UA status itself on a domestic hop wouldn't be particularly significant. I wonder where the individual who displaced you came in that pecking order.
You are entitled to 400% of the cheapest ticket on the flight, capped at $1,350 and paid in cash (check). The voucher and miles are customer service gestures and do not count against the $1,350.00.
Send a webform complaint to UA noting that you were involuntarily denied boarding, requesting a check for $1,350 and noting that you will file a complaint with DOT if that check is not received in 7 business days. If you do not have the check or at least an acknowledgement that the check is enroute by the 8th business day, file a DOT complain (online webform so it's free).
If you do need to file a complaint with DOT, do make a point of noting that you believe that the agent gave your seat to a colleague of his rather than following UA's required IDB order. Let UA justify it.
You are entitled to 400% of the cheapest ticket on the flight, capped at $1,350 and paid in cash (check). The voucher and miles are customer service gestures and do not count against the $1,350.00.
Send a webform complaint to UA noting that you were involuntarily denied boarding, requesting a check for $1,350 and noting that you will file a complaint with DOT if that check is not received in 7 business days. If you do not have the check or at least an acknowledgement that the check is enroute by the 8th business day, file a DOT complain (online webform so it's free).
If you do need to file a complaint with DOT, do make a point of noting that you believe that the agent gave your seat to a colleague of his rather than following UA's required IDB order. Let UA justify it.
Dec 28, 2015, 3:22 pm
#56
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Being a complete newbie with US airline shenanigans, I am puzzled by this story. The OP says he was already settled in his seat. Can United actually boot him off the plane in this situation? What would happen if he refuses?
Dec 28, 2015, 4:03 pm
#57
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UA can remove anyone from any flight for any reason. Depending what the reason is, the passenger may have recourse to compensation after the fact.
Last edited by raehl311; Dec 28, 2015 at 4:14 pm
Dec 28, 2015, 4:07 pm
#58
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Dec 28, 2015, 5:17 pm
#59
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I sat in IAD on Dec 24th and used this thread to explain to 2 seperate couples who were kicked off their flights that not only is United allowed to do it, they do do it, but are required to provide certain things under the law.
Neither were happy after I spoke with them, but both went back to cust service and got vouchers for hotel, check etc for the flight. None of which the cust service agent offered until prodded.
When he saw me walk up with the second couple, he was a LOT more forthcoming.
It is sad when they don't hold up their end as required by law due to the fact that people don't know what to ask for, and they get away with it.
Neither were happy after I spoke with them, but both went back to cust service and got vouchers for hotel, check etc for the flight. None of which the cust service agent offered until prodded.
When he saw me walk up with the second couple, he was a LOT more forthcoming.
It is sad when they don't hold up their end as required by law due to the fact that people don't know what to ask for, and they get away with it.
Dec 28, 2015, 6:10 pm
#60
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Vouchers can be CS gestures, or they can be DB comp; if the OP chooses to negotiate DB comp after coming off the plane, UA doesn't need to pay the IDB comp or report the IDB. He was free to take his $452 and have it reported as IDB. It sounds like he found a mutually beneficial resolution with UA.