Jan 19, 2015, 1:50 am
Last edit by: Kacee
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw (OJ)?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted.
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: It has become extremely difficult to book an open-jaw at the stopover. Best not to count on getting one.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: No.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a "free one-way" I can get on a UA award?
A: The term "free one-way" is a misnomer and often confuses people (and may annoy the regulars here!). The technical definition of this concept is "stopover at origin." There have been mixed reports recently about UA's willingness to ticket a stopover at origin.
Important Notes - PLEASE READ:
1. Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it. This is probably the number one error made in attempting to construct a complex itinerary. If you have more than two stops >24 hours on a roundtrip award, it is not legal and will not ticket.
2. An open jaw always creates a stopover, even if you're stopping for less than 24 hours.
3. Many awards are subject to segment or "transfer" limitations. For example, the North America to South Asia award is currently restricted to four transfers in each direction.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw (OJ)?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted.
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: It has become extremely difficult to book an open-jaw at the stopover. Best not to count on getting one.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: No.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a "free one-way" I can get on a UA award?
A: The term "free one-way" is a misnomer and often confuses people (and may annoy the regulars here!). The technical definition of this concept is "stopover at origin." There have been mixed reports recently about UA's willingness to ticket a stopover at origin.
Important Notes - PLEASE READ:
1. Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it. This is probably the number one error made in attempting to construct a complex itinerary. If you have more than two stops >24 hours on a roundtrip award, it is not legal and will not ticket.
2. An open jaw always creates a stopover, even if you're stopping for less than 24 hours.
3. Many awards are subject to segment or "transfer" limitations. For example, the North America to South Asia award is currently restricted to four transfers in each direction.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Questions on Open Jaw/Stopover and Award Routings for United UA/*A Partners [2015]
Jan 14, 2015, 5:48 pm
#46
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: san antonio, texas
Programs: 3.2MM AA, 1.4MM UA,StwdLftPlt
Posts: 1,586
Two oceans are actually not allowed. In fact, the Europe routing to S. Asia is specifically excluded under the fare rules for that award.
That doesn't mean it can't be booked. However, you reference a "dummy booking." Do you actually have a ticket? Sometimes it doesn't error out until the very end of the booking process.
That doesn't mean it can't be booked. However, you reference a "dummy booking." Do you actually have a ticket? Sometimes it doesn't error out until the very end of the booking process.
Jan 14, 2015, 7:36 pm
#47
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,450
Saddened to hear the airline has shut down the backdoor RTW that North America to South Asia allowed. Gave me a chance to explore Turkey and Eastern Europe while headed to Asia. FWIW, the last trip for me in summer 2014 had more objections from agents-"this looks like a round the world fare"- than the previous successes.
Jan 14, 2015, 8:47 pm
#48
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: DFW
Programs: Mileage Plus
Posts: 54
DFW-ORD-NRT-CTS
NRT-IST-ZRH
ZRH-EWR-DFW
It's nearly identical to the one I want (with the exception of no layover at ICN and no open jaw in Europe). It will only priced out (under multi-city) when the dates are in November. It won't priced out at any other dates even though the individual segments for those dates are available. In the worst case scenario (if I cannot cross both oceans), I can still do the Europe/Japan combination, but just crossing the Pacific twice or Atlantic twice?
Jan 14, 2015, 9:04 pm
#49
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Programs: United 1MM
Posts: 318
I thought that in the past, you cold book Australia - Europe via the US for 110K roundtrip. This, of course, would violate the two-ocean rule. I've tried to ticket it out, but I get an error. Any MEL-LHR attempts all go via Asia on *A partners. I honestly don't see why the two ocean rule should affect AU - Europe if I exclusively want to fly United (and that is only possible via North America).
Jan 18, 2015, 7:47 pm
#50
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: UA Premier Platinum, AA Exec Platinum, TG ROP, WOH Platinum, Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 265
Questions on Open Jaw/Stopover Award Bookings on UA/*A Partners [2015]
Here's the situation. In November, want to do the following booking on a (hopefully) Biz Saver award via UA MP (most likely candidate at this point is NH for all flights).
LAX > Osaka (either KIX or ITM) - then 10 days traveling around Japan
NRT > BKK - making our own way to NRT from southern Japan at that point; then, once we arrive in BKK, 10 days in Thailand
BKK > LAX
I was under the impression this could all be booked as one ticket. But spoke to an MP rep tonight and she confused me since she said both open-jaw and stopover were NOT allowed. She informed me that in order to utilize one award ticket, we'd need to fly into Osaka, and then again out of Osaka (to BKK) in order to be compliant. Is that the case? It's been awhile since I dealt with the open-jaw scenario and not sure if anything has changed.
If that is, indeed, the case...is it best for me to just book LAX > NRT; NRT > BKK; BKK > LAX then (and just deal with the internal flights in Japan separately)?
Thanks in advance for any help!
LAX > Osaka (either KIX or ITM) - then 10 days traveling around Japan
NRT > BKK - making our own way to NRT from southern Japan at that point; then, once we arrive in BKK, 10 days in Thailand
BKK > LAX
I was under the impression this could all be booked as one ticket. But spoke to an MP rep tonight and she confused me since she said both open-jaw and stopover were NOT allowed. She informed me that in order to utilize one award ticket, we'd need to fly into Osaka, and then again out of Osaka (to BKK) in order to be compliant. Is that the case? It's been awhile since I dealt with the open-jaw scenario and not sure if anything has changed.
If that is, indeed, the case...is it best for me to just book LAX > NRT; NRT > BKK; BKK > LAX then (and just deal with the internal flights in Japan separately)?
Thanks in advance for any help!
Jan 18, 2015, 7:51 pm
#51
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
Programs: DREAD Gold; UA 1.035MM; Bonvoy Au-197; PCC Elite+; CCC Elite+; MSC C-12; CWC Au-197; WoH Dis
Posts: 52,134
Call back (i.e., FlyerTalk Rule #1). This was true long ago, but things have changed and this agent has not kept up with the times.
Jan 18, 2015, 7:58 pm
#52
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: LAX
Programs: UA Premier Platinum, AA Exec Platinum, TG ROP, WOH Platinum, Bonvoy Platinum
Posts: 265
Thanks, mahasamatman. If you don't mind my asking, since it'll help when I do call back, what IS allowed in this scenario?
Is it possible (if available) to book LAX > ITM on the outbound; then book NRT > BKK as the stopover 10 days later; and, finally, BKK > LAX on the return as one reward ticket?
Is it possible (if available) to book LAX > ITM on the outbound; then book NRT > BKK as the stopover 10 days later; and, finally, BKK > LAX on the return as one reward ticket?
Jan 18, 2015, 8:07 pm
#53
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: GVA (Greater Vancouver Area)
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Posts: 52,134
According to the rules at http://www.united.com/web/en-US/cont...vel/types.aspx, you are allowed one stopover plus two open jaws per round-trip award (other than North America). Note, however, that they added an out last year:
Unfortunately, they haven't told anyone what those certain itinerarits are, but the general rule still holds.
It should work just fine, though I think you would probably make BKK your destination with Japan as your stopover.
Have you tried searching online? That's often the path of least resistance if you're having trouble finding an agent to help.
For travel booked on or after February 1, 2014, a stopover is permitted only on certain roundtrip itineraries.
Have you tried searching online? That's often the path of least resistance if you're having trouble finding an agent to help.
Jan 18, 2015, 8:15 pm
#54
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Francisco, CA
Programs: UA Plat, Copa Pres. Plat, Hyatt Diamond, Hilton Diamond, SPG LT Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 769
I'm not so sure this will work as a single ticket.
I can't speak from personal experience, but Drew from TIF really knows his stuff when it comes to United routing rules, and he explicitly says that you can't use an open jaw at the stopover point - only at the origin or destination. Read here for more: http://travelisfree.com/2014/08/26/u...routing-rules/
I can't speak from personal experience, but Drew from TIF really knows his stuff when it comes to United routing rules, and he explicitly says that you can't use an open jaw at the stopover point - only at the origin or destination. Read here for more: http://travelisfree.com/2014/08/26/u...routing-rules/
Jan 18, 2015, 11:05 pm
#55
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
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The issue is booking the OJ at the stopover. The issue has been discussed at great length here.
Basically, it's not known whether UA routing rules (which are mostly unpublished) allow an OJ at the stopover. (Although several of our more knowledgable members, believe it's now illegal.) We do know it's become increasingly difficult to book the OJ at the stopover. YMMV, meaning you may be able to book it, or you may not.
Basically, it's not known whether UA routing rules (which are mostly unpublished) allow an OJ at the stopover. (Although several of our more knowledgable members, believe it's now illegal.) We do know it's become increasingly difficult to book the OJ at the stopover. YMMV, meaning you may be able to book it, or you may not.
Jan 19, 2015, 1:48 am
#56
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 114
It's possible to book it in economy for 70k mile rt. Routing:
(3/10) LAX-SFO-KIX (3/17) HND-FUK-BKK (3/24) BKK-LAX (TG direct with stop in ICN). It prices as LAX-KIX, TYO-LAX with stopover in BKK. Therefore, routing rules allow it. J availability is poorer and maybe you are trying to cross not allowed regions, have too many segments, or no availability?
(3/10) LAX-SFO-KIX (3/17) HND-FUK-BKK (3/24) BKK-LAX (TG direct with stop in ICN). It prices as LAX-KIX, TYO-LAX with stopover in BKK. Therefore, routing rules allow it. J availability is poorer and maybe you are trying to cross not allowed regions, have too many segments, or no availability?
Jan 19, 2015, 6:35 am
#57
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Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,450
Sigh.
Why do people constantly confuse:
1. .com errors out = itinerary must violate routing rules; and
2. .com allows itinerary to be reserved = itinerary must be legal.
Both conclusions are erroneous. .com makes errors in both directions.
Why do people constantly confuse:
1. .com errors out = itinerary must violate routing rules; and
2. .com allows itinerary to be reserved = itinerary must be legal.
Both conclusions are erroneous. .com makes errors in both directions.
Jan 19, 2015, 6:50 am
#58
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Under the Cone of Silence
Programs: UA Gold; AA Dirt; HH Diamond; National Emerald; CONTROL SecretAgent Platinum; KAOS EvilFlyer Gold
Posts: 1,499
Jan 19, 2015, 7:45 am
#59
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: ORD
Programs: UMP Silver and Marriott Platinum
Posts: 162
Can anyone help me with this routing:
Leg 1: ORD > FRA > FRA > BCN - Stay in Barcelona for 3 days
Leg 2: BCN > LIS > LIS > MAD - Stay in Madrid for 3 days
Leg 3: DUS > ORD - 7 days later open jaw to head home
Leg 1: ORD > FRA > FRA > BCN - Stay in Barcelona for 3 days
Leg 2: BCN > LIS > LIS > MAD - Stay in Madrid for 3 days
Leg 3: DUS > ORD - 7 days later open jaw to head home
Jan 20, 2015, 1:08 am
#60
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 114
Actually, I checked fare conditions and Japan-USA with transit in South East Asia was not forbidden. Unless there is a secret rule that forbids it, the itinerary should be OK.