andrewwm

Thought people might find this interesting:

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-1...et-revamp.html

I hope they go with the CSeries. Love me some modern 3-2 seating with 18.5 seat width, but either way a good sign that the 50 seaters are on their way out.

JBord

Thanks for posting the link.

I'm not familiar with the C series, but I've been a fan of the Embraers ever since UA first added the 170's. Still remember the first time I rode one from ORD-DFW years ago.

I've flown the 190/195, on one of the European airlines I believe, and remember enjoying those as well. Good to see UA at least considering this direction as it replaces the smaller RJ's.

Halo117

I say no to the C-series...can't trust a company who gave us the devil's chariot (CRJ200)....also the E series has no middle seat....can't beat that on the C-series. But alas UA is last to show as other carriers already have their orders in place (not just talking about it).

entropy

The C-Series doesn't look that bad. People here always seem to forget that they wouldn't mind one bit if they were on a Challenger, which is a CRJ.

I'm not sure which one they'd opt for, I doubt both at once. The E2 is more or less the E-series with GTF engines, so its a pretty "low risk" option.

LASUA1K

E-190 is a bad choice. It's just a stretch and has become a very unreliable aircraft with other airlines. AC, JetBlue and US are all trying to get rid of them.

Hooefully the C series win.

milepig

I need a score card. They RJ'd the entire country and now they're unprofitable?

CO_Nonrev_elite

The 50 Seat RJ's are everywhere. I have now booked all my travel for the remainder of the year and not one is on United and it is only down to the fact that on EVERY SINGLE FLIGHT I have left this year, United had either the 50 seat regional or a prop on it when everyone else had something better. The remaining flights are all on Delta metal.

EmailKid

The only thing that sustained RJs was low wages for pilots and cheap oil.

Pilots need more minimum flying time, so they are harder to come by, but oil is WAY DOWN. Still twice the cost of when they came up with the model for using RJs.

And of course flyers hate them, not just us Fters @:-)

andrewwm

The no middle seat aspect is nice on the E series, but the C Series actually looks pretty roomy and comfortable:

http://commercialaircraft.bombardier...s/Comfort.html

Regardless, both are big upgrades from the CRJ-200.

I'd guess that for UA the advantages of the E-series would be that they are easy to find used frames on the market now and guaranteed secondary market if and when they wanted to dispose of them. Downsides would be range and wait to get the next gen models (maybe 2018-2019)

CSeries will be available starting from 2015 and has greater range, plus a sibling model that also is appealing (C300). However, it has an uncertain track record and questionable secondary market which likely holds it back.

freshairborne

Any aircraft with a max gross weight of 86,000+ lbs will be flown by pilots on the United Pilot seniority list. E-190 and bigger, and all C Series are over that, so if they buy them, you will have mainline pilots flying them.

I think everybody wins with this; management thinks otherwise. In any case, they would be United and not UNITEDexpress aircraft, and be flown by United Mainline pilots.

Mitsubishi and Sukhoi have RJs as well, but MRJ 70LR is too heavy for Express, as is the Sukhoi SSJ-100/75LR


FAB

mecabq

Isn't this a contradiction? A previous poster said that other airlines are trying to get rid of the E series, i.e., it may be buyer's market. So if the second part of your sentence is true, are you saying that the market conditions should change in the coming decades?

USFFlyer

Another thing to consider...

The C100 currently has no firm orders from US carriers. Aside from a 30 jet Swiss order, it's a bunch of onsie-twosies from second/third tier international carriers. If Bombardier can land a 50-100 jet order from UA, it lends credibility to the C-series program. I also bet UA will get a hefty discount on any C100's being the launch customer in North America.

Aside from that, looking at specs, the C-Series jets seem to outperform the E-Jets in range, short field performance, payload, etc. The C-100 competes nicely with the E-190/195, while the C300 slots in above the current CR9/E175 fleet and could be a nice replacement for the A319. (Hooray for no more IAD-SFO/LAX on 8F 319s. The C300 doesn't have the range, so hopefully we'd see all 320/739s here.)

My vote goes to the C series.

andrewwm

What I meant by that is that you can get used E jets tomorrow if UA wants them, limiting capital costs. When UA is finally done flying the E jets, given the large number of operators, there is also a more or less guaranteed secondary market for them.

For the CSeries, UA would have to buy new. And given the small number of operators committed to the type, it's not clear that there will be a very liquid secondary market for them once UA is done with them.

So buying the CSeries would mean higher upfront capital costs and more uncertainty on the back end.

One wild card in this is that Republic has a large order for CSeries airplanes that they now no longer want. It is possible UA could be considering taking them off their hands for a decent discount.

why fly

as a taxpayer in Canada i sure hope someone buys lots of these planes soon, otherwise more of my tax money will go to subsidize Bombardier.

andrewwm

Sure the MRJ 70LR is too heavy, but the 70STD and and the 70ER aren't. I strongly suspect they will be flying for UA Express at some point in the future.

At any rate, the big reason that UA is considering these planes is that the pilots' contract has a provision whereby if UA adds a new series narrowbody (effectively either the CSeries or the E-195), then they can add additional 76 seaters (at the cost of more 50 seaters).

So overall, more total flying being done by big regionals and small mainline aircraft, while it furthers the death of the 50 seater.