blackllotus

I would love to see United acquire some CSeries aircraft - wider seats and shorter boarding times than the 737. I could see myself wanting to fly them.

I'm surprised Bombardier stock jumped 6% given that Embraer is still a possibility and the pilot negotiations are not sealed...

Jetpig32

Bombardier is struggling with the order book on the c-series. Only a few top rate customers and low confidence among other prospects. They need a hand out or a hand up. Their failed talks with Airbus were likely just to show Quebec that they tried to get private sector funding.
I feel the next move is a govt. bail out from the pension fund, but they may want to see a large network carrier jumping in. United is likely to get haircut off the price, just to bring confidence back to the program.
A 100 seater will not likely replace 737 routes, but update rj routes at reduced freq.

freshairborne

So would I, and if they want them, they can get them. They don't need anything from pilots as a condition of getting those planes. Trying to use them as a bargaining chip is pretty underhanded in my opinion. They want something from us and they're willing to make it a condition for a pilot contract extension.

The pilots don't need an extension, we have a contract right now. If they want to mix contract talks with airplane orders, they can offer to negotiate in good faith for our next contract that becomes amendable in early 2017, and actually have one in place by then, not some watered-down partial extension.

The fact that they want to do this quickly and trade it for something that they want more than we do makes me very suspicious that there's only going to be one winner in a hastily assembled extension vs a complete, fully negotiated, on-time, fair contract.

Management's history of negotiating a contract on its amendable date, in good faith, is exactly 0.0%. The only time they have ever pushed for a contract sooner than later was when they were going after pay cuts, work rule degradations, and pension elimination.

If they want my yes vote on this, it will have to be a full contract that restores what was taken in 2003 and again in 2004, adjusted for inflation.

FAB

fly18725

Delta was in a similar situation of trying to negotiate a contract early using an aircraft it already had negotiated rates for as a chit. The strategy failed horribly at Delta and set pilot/management relationships back quite a bit. It will be interesting to see if Unitd fairs differently.

freshairborne

History shows that they probably won't. They are expecting us to forgo full contract talks, which would happen after Delta finishes their contract, in exchange for these little airplanes, which none of the pilots have any real affinity for. In fact, it is the company that wants them, otherwise they would not even bring them up. They'd be trying to dangle some other shiny object in our faces; they just think the little planes are shinier than they are.

All they're trying to do is extend the work rules and a few other provisions in the current contract as long as they can. They know that the paltry wage increases they will offer in exchange will be peanuts compared to what they'll save if they have to actually agree to a full, fair, on-time contract.

Mr. Munoz is the tenth CEO to be in office since I started here. There's a pattern that is common to the last nine, and he's very predictably following that pattern.

FAB

fastair

And worse than tha, DL had previously bought aircraft (777) that they had not negotiated rates for, which put their relations back even further when they started getting deliveries and had to park the metal. DL paid a heavy price for that, which led to UA's original summer from hell, when UA had to meet or beat DL's extorted (pay us what we want or your planes will sit in the desert) pay rates.

It's best to get the contract to fly the plane in place before ordering them, in order to keep both sides honest. Billions of dollars of metal gathering dust is a powerful negotiating lever.

sbm12

Pay scale for the CS300 is already in the current ALPA/UA contract. So is the E90, E95 and CR9.

LPDAL

E170/175/190/195 all have equivalent or greater interior room to a comparable A319/A320 or B73-7/8/9. In fact, some, such as me, actually prefer them due to their massive windows.

AA is still flying the PMUS E190s on mainline. There was some murmurs about a fleet retirement elsewhere on the internet, but nothing has come to fruition as of yet.

-LPDAL

fly18725

The rates are there for United, just as they were there for Delta with the E-190s they agreed to buy. The challenge in both cases is that the work rules make it uncompetitive to bring smaller aircraft into mainline. It's a tough position for both sides: management wants to in source more, but with a structure that is somewhat competitive with regionals. Pilots always want more mainline aircraft, but times are pretty good for the existing work group and there's little motivation to give up anything to grow on the small end.

Delta was a little deceptive and heavy handed in their approach. I think United will fail as well. The only upside is that they haven't committed to buy any planes before they have a contract.

jhayes_1780

Do I remember hearing something like many Airline contracts do have pay rates for planes they don't even operate? Or did I just imagine that?

freshairborne

You're right. In addition to the aircraft that we currently fly, we have scales for CRJ 900, EMB 190 & 195, CS 300, MD80/90, A-330, 350, and 380.

FAB

freshairborne

The fact that all of a sudden they want to cut a deal to extend our current contract with some changes but leave out certain things doesn't pass the sniff test with me. It just indicates that if they want to cut a deal, they can, and as in every other contract we've EVER negotiated with them, if it's going to cost them a penny they avoid negotiating in good faith.

When we had pilots on furlough (aka 100% pay cut) we wanted to get them back to work, and more cockpit seats is one way to do it. Right now, they're giro pilots so what's the hurry?

I just finished training on the Airbus again (I was previously a captain on it for six years before my last seven years of 757/767). My training partner was a new-hire.

We're finding excellent new guys.

FAB

FAB

jhayes_1780

Wow, so I am not crazy. Well... ah nevermind.

Hopefully a few "gals" too

Who will be flying the 350's when they arrive?

freshairborne

Just a guess, but I think 20-30% of the new-hires are female.

Whoever has the seniority to bid any airplane here can do so. There won't be restrictions on bidding it, as there currently are on 787 and 747, but those restrictions are about to go away.

I just finished A-319/320 school, and while I'd have pretty good seniority toughly it when it comes on the property, I will avoid it because it's a near-certainty that I would have to commute somewhere to fly it, and frankly, nothing is worth that to me. The exception might be that when I'm within a year from quitting, I might do it until I remember why I keep saying I won't, then really quit.

FAB

LarryJ

Just under 5% in my class. 1 out of 21. Rather small sample, though...