Will United ever launch service to South Africa?
Aug 14, 2015, 8:06 am
#91
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 3,394
I wouldn't be surprised if the ME3 has a lot of the traffic from the US to South Africa especially in the premium cabins for those who live outside of ATL/IAD/NYC where non-stops are available.
From LAX to connect via FRA its 11186 miles, to connect via DXB it's 12309 so not too much further for premium customers wanting a superior J/F product.
From LAX to connect via FRA its 11186 miles, to connect via DXB it's 12309 so not too much further for premium customers wanting a superior J/F product.
Aug 14, 2015, 10:02 am
#92
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SAA is a bit of a financial mess and they have cancelled or modified some long-haul routes. They often have the least expensive flights (and award seats) between U.S. and SA. Operationally, I find them perfectly fine. But not sure how much of a money-maker these flights are for them.
Fun fact: CPT and JNB route is among the global top #10 of highest number of flights per day.
Fun fact: CPT and JNB route is among the global top #10 of highest number of flights per day.
Aug 14, 2015, 10:21 am
#93
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I love this idea. I go to JNB a couple of times a year and always take Delta (even though I have no status). I've tried the other options (LH through Europe and SAA) and prefer the Delta nonstop.
Aug 14, 2015, 10:46 am
#94
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Other higher priority routes not already served by UA? There aren't that many without massive competition. Asia is saturated--and has far more competition. Europe is saturated--and has far more competition. South America isn't saturated but has more competition and weaker economic conditions than even SA.
South Africa is one major business/leisure destination where US carriers don't have to compete head-to-head with the Gulf carriers OR better European carriers...and where US carriers have an advantage over SAA with better feed.
South Africa is one major business/leisure destination where US carriers don't have to compete head-to-head with the Gulf carriers OR better European carriers...and where US carriers have an advantage over SAA with better feed.
as much crap as we give UA, i would trust that they know what routes are profitable and which are not. CTU was a great route to begin from SFO.
i just don't see JNB in the cards. if anything, maybe a 787. but it is not a high priority.
Aug 14, 2015, 10:52 am
#95
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Interesting you'd chose this from Colorado. As it's really not a non-stop for you. I'd think DEN-FRA-JNB would be a very nice routing.
Aug 14, 2015, 10:59 am
#96
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The route I've thought UA was really leaving on the table that made little sense to me was an LAX or SFO-TLV. There is nothing direct from SFO and only El Al from LAX which charges a pretty hefty price for the non-stop. My understanding is that it's always full.
Aug 14, 2015, 11:14 am
#97
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Aug 14, 2015, 11:32 am
#98
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Code:
origin | destination | daily_flights | daily_seats --------+-------------+---------------+------------- CJU | GMP | 90 | 15455 MEL | SYD | 67 | 11566 CGH | SDU | 60 | 9130 BOM | DEL | 58 | 9900 CTS | HND | 51 | 14903 CGK | SUB | 51 | 8754 FUK | HND | 51 | 12179 LAX | SFO | 49 | 5577 MCM | NCE | 44 | 219 HKG | TPE | 43 | 10908 CPT | JNB | 42 | 7063
Aug 14, 2015, 1:07 pm
#99
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Actually, I would imagine that LAX-TLV would be the preferred route since there is such high O/D traffic demand, higher than SFO. But either LAX-TLV or SFO-TLV would also be a nice UA route addition, I agree.
Aug 14, 2015, 4:58 pm
#101
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LAX-TLV is a long flight (7569 miles) which means it is expensive per passenger. United does not command a premium at this point, and I can think of no example of UA adding a single overseas route when they faced competition (they have resumed a few, but no new routes) under the current management. I just don't see United going head to head with El Al. That said, DL (or AA) might, but not UA.
As to J-berg? No way UA adds it. Its 8004 miles, which is a very long (and expensive) flight. United is not going to add a flight like this vs COMPETITION, even if SAA is not the best airline in the world. There is little chance that United will steal any of the premium traffic (vs DL or SAA or connecting in Europe or the ME) and as such no way to pay for a flight of this length.
United's game plane was to add flights into second tier Chinese Cities, but (1) china is slowing, and (2) Chinese carriers have beat United to the punch other than at CTU. SFO-TLV is more possible since its not currently served, and SFO (unlike LAX) is a hub for UA. But its 7416 miles (again not a short flight, longest current flight ex-SFO is HKG which is 6922 miles) so very high cost, and I just don't see United picking up enough high value traffic net (vs what it will cannibalize off current flights to TLV) or connecting traffic to make this work well. Plus if United offered its new "savvy" service of not feeding people for 10 straight hours (only two small meals and then BOB snacks offered) on SFO-TLV they would have riots on the plane...
Aug 14, 2015, 5:28 pm
#102
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 1,309
what baloney
I think the people at United would be very surprised to learn that you, a blogger on a web site, have deemed that LAX is no longer a hub. It is a hub. United says it is. Until they say it isn't, then it is.
And no, United did just put a new flight on - ORD-DUB, which is in COMPETITION with AA and EI, and ORD-FCO, which is in COMPETITION with AA (also seasonal) and AZ. UA must have felt they could get get the traffic on these very competitive routes or else they would not have allocated their aircraft to them. They also launched seasonal service to VCE from EWR this summer, which is in pretty much direct competition with DL from JFK.
If they felt the market was there for EWR or IAD to JNB/CPT, they had the aircraft, and there was no better use for the aircraft, then I'm sure they'd launch the flight.
United competes in markets, without a doubt.
And no, United did just put a new flight on - ORD-DUB, which is in COMPETITION with AA and EI, and ORD-FCO, which is in COMPETITION with AA (also seasonal) and AZ. UA must have felt they could get get the traffic on these very competitive routes or else they would not have allocated their aircraft to them. They also launched seasonal service to VCE from EWR this summer, which is in pretty much direct competition with DL from JFK.
If they felt the market was there for EWR or IAD to JNB/CPT, they had the aircraft, and there was no better use for the aircraft, then I'm sure they'd launch the flight.
United competes in markets, without a doubt.
United is slowly bailing on LAX, they have a hard time filling up a 787-8 to NRT, and are now distinctly third in traffic and premium at LAX.
LAX-TLV is a long flight (7569 miles) which means it is expensive per passenger. United does not command a premium at this point, and I can think of no example of UA adding a single overseas route when they faced competition (they have resumed a few, but no new routes) under the current management. I just don't see United going head to head with El Al. That said, DL (or AA) might, but not UA.
As to J-berg? No way UA adds it. Its 8004 miles, which is a very long (and expensive) flight. United is not going to add a flight like this vs COMPETITION, even if SAA is not the best airline in the world. There is little chance that United will steal any of the premium traffic (vs DL or SAA or connecting in Europe or the ME) and as such no way to pay for a flight of this length.
United's game plane was to add flights into second tier Chinese Cities, but (1) china is slowing, and (2) Chinese carriers have beat United to the punch other than at CTU. SFO-TLV is more possible since its not currently served, and SFO (unlike LAX) is a hub for UA. But its 7416 miles (again not a short flight, longest current flight ex-SFO is HKG which is 6922 miles) so very high cost, and I just don't see United picking up enough high value traffic net (vs what it will cannibalize off current flights to TLV) or connecting traffic to make this work well. Plus if United offered its new "savvy" service of not feeding people for 10 straight hours (only two small meals and then BOB snacks offered) on SFO-TLV they would have riots on the plane...
LAX-TLV is a long flight (7569 miles) which means it is expensive per passenger. United does not command a premium at this point, and I can think of no example of UA adding a single overseas route when they faced competition (they have resumed a few, but no new routes) under the current management. I just don't see United going head to head with El Al. That said, DL (or AA) might, but not UA.
As to J-berg? No way UA adds it. Its 8004 miles, which is a very long (and expensive) flight. United is not going to add a flight like this vs COMPETITION, even if SAA is not the best airline in the world. There is little chance that United will steal any of the premium traffic (vs DL or SAA or connecting in Europe or the ME) and as such no way to pay for a flight of this length.
United's game plane was to add flights into second tier Chinese Cities, but (1) china is slowing, and (2) Chinese carriers have beat United to the punch other than at CTU. SFO-TLV is more possible since its not currently served, and SFO (unlike LAX) is a hub for UA. But its 7416 miles (again not a short flight, longest current flight ex-SFO is HKG which is 6922 miles) so very high cost, and I just don't see United picking up enough high value traffic net (vs what it will cannibalize off current flights to TLV) or connecting traffic to make this work well. Plus if United offered its new "savvy" service of not feeding people for 10 straight hours (only two small meals and then BOB snacks offered) on SFO-TLV they would have riots on the plane...
Aug 14, 2015, 5:54 pm
#103
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To me a hub is defined by being able to make at least half my flights WITHOUT connecting. I can't do that from LAX, most of my flights I connect at IAH, SFO, ORD, EWR and heck even DEN...so they are hubs. When I have to connect, from a so-called hub to get somewhere, what is the place I am connecting called, if my origination is a "hub"?????
LAX is not a hub, regardless of what United wants to call it.
Aug 14, 2015, 6:24 pm
#104
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A 10 hour period, where you're largely sedentary and often sleeping, with a lunch or dinner before it and breakfast after it... sounds like something most people do every day.
Aug 14, 2015, 7:24 pm
#105
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