ExpressJet told United in January 2014 that it needs to cut flying
Feb 10, 2014, 6:35 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2012
Programs: United Platinum, AA Platinum, Hilton Gold, Marriott Gold
Posts: 155
ExpressJet told United in January 2014 that it needs to cut flying
From Crankyflier
From Expressjet spokesman to Cranky Flier:
"While ExpressJet continues to attract qualified pilots, we did in fact inform United in January that we need to reduce our planned United Express flying. ExpressJet’s situation is by no means unique in the regional industry"
Maybe shuttering the Cleveland hublet is the first domino to fall?
From Expressjet spokesman to Cranky Flier:
"While ExpressJet continues to attract qualified pilots, we did in fact inform United in January that we need to reduce our planned United Express flying. ExpressJet’s situation is by no means unique in the regional industry"
Maybe shuttering the Cleveland hublet is the first domino to fall?
Feb 10, 2014, 10:14 pm
#3
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Francisco/Tel Aviv/YYZ
Programs: CO 1K-MM
Posts: 10,762
and thus we have the actual reason that United closed the CLE hub. Where do you have a, possibly marginal, mostly regional operation all in one place?
CLE.
Whack CLE, you can take out those RJ's and the rest of the system (the part they really care about) won't suffer.
CLE.
Whack CLE, you can take out those RJ's and the rest of the system (the part they really care about) won't suffer.
Feb 10, 2014, 11:55 pm
#4
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 515
Let's see if we can continue bashing UA management for downsizing their CLE base, thereby shrinking future profit?
Per a WSJ article (and they do do their homework), this isn't a problem that UA is facing alone. With a huge shortage or airline pilots, pilots will leave express carriers (where they are paid less) for more lucrative offers. Supply and demand. This is good in many ways. Wages for pilots and other labor groups will lift up. They've been depressed for many years. It will lead to higher airfares, as capacity will shrink, which airlines can use to cover increased labor costs. The bad news is that many communities will end up with fewer frequencies and destinations or lose service completely.
Per a WSJ article (and they do do their homework), this isn't a problem that UA is facing alone. With a huge shortage or airline pilots, pilots will leave express carriers (where they are paid less) for more lucrative offers. Supply and demand. This is good in many ways. Wages for pilots and other labor groups will lift up. They've been depressed for many years. It will lead to higher airfares, as capacity will shrink, which airlines can use to cover increased labor costs. The bad news is that many communities will end up with fewer frequencies and destinations or lose service completely.
Feb 11, 2014, 12:03 am
#5
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
Let's see if we can continue bashing UA management for downsizing their CLE base, thereby shrinking future profit?
Per a WSJ article (and they do do their homework), this isn't a problem that UA is facing alone. With a huge shortage or airline pilots, pilots will leave express carriers (where they are paid less) for more lucrative offers. Supply and demand. This is good in many ways. Wages for pilots and other labor groups will lift up. They've been depressed for many years. It will lead to higher airfares, as capacity will shrink, which airlines can use to cover increased labor costs. The bad news is that many communities will end up with fewer frequencies and destinations or lose service completely.
Per a WSJ article (and they do do their homework), this isn't a problem that UA is facing alone. With a huge shortage or airline pilots, pilots will leave express carriers (where they are paid less) for more lucrative offers. Supply and demand. This is good in many ways. Wages for pilots and other labor groups will lift up. They've been depressed for many years. It will lead to higher airfares, as capacity will shrink, which airlines can use to cover increased labor costs. The bad news is that many communities will end up with fewer frequencies and destinations or lose service completely.
This said, I will comment that Delta saw this coming, and went to a strategy of "upgaging" which allowed it to deal better with this issue while also reducing its CASM. AA did this to a lesser degree. Jeff? Well he planed to add only 17 E-175s per discussion in the 4Q 2013 quarterly results, 27 E-175s per the fleet plan (I don't know which is correct). Jeff now has the most capacity in RJs and no plan, other than shaving ASMs, to try to address it.
Feb 11, 2014, 12:09 am
#6
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 515
I for one don't bash UAL for dumping the CLE hub. Running a RJ hub, with ORD next door, made no sense. Frankly, I'm surprised it did not happen sooner.
This said, I will comment that Delta saw this coming, and went to a strategy of "upgaging" which allowed it to deal better with this issue while also reducing its CASM. AA did this to a lesser degree. Jeff? Well he planed to add only 17 E-175s per discussion in the 4Q 2013 quarterly results, 27 E-175s per the fleet plan (I don't know which is correct). Jeff now has the most capacity in RJs and no plan, other than shaving ASMs, to try to address it.
This said, I will comment that Delta saw this coming, and went to a strategy of "upgaging" which allowed it to deal better with this issue while also reducing its CASM. AA did this to a lesser degree. Jeff? Well he planed to add only 17 E-175s per discussion in the 4Q 2013 quarterly results, 27 E-175s per the fleet plan (I don't know which is correct). Jeff now has the most capacity in RJs and no plan, other than shaving ASMs, to try to address it.
Then-United management did what it had to do to try to maintain coverage.
I don't think it's really about current management not thinking about these issues in advance. I think they've had their hands full trying to knock off other things, which for myriad reasons presented their own set of challenges.
Feb 11, 2014, 2:26 am
#7
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Dallas
Programs: AA LTPLT UA1P Hilton Dia Marriott Plat
Posts: 1,183
Express jet lost 81 pilots in Jan from a Captain friend who works there.
They are so short pilots he said there is no slack none. They can't get anyone to show up for new hire classes. Not surprising at a starting wage of 20K.
Express jet RJ's all have 10,000+ hours needing extra care but he said under UA they cut all out station maintenance. So nothing gets fixed causing more canceled flights.
He states the entire operation is in the toilet.
Jeff has relied to much on RJ's for UA.
They are so short pilots he said there is no slack none. They can't get anyone to show up for new hire classes. Not surprising at a starting wage of 20K.
Express jet RJ's all have 10,000+ hours needing extra care but he said under UA they cut all out station maintenance. So nothing gets fixed causing more canceled flights.
He states the entire operation is in the toilet.
Jeff has relied to much on RJ's for UA.
Feb 11, 2014, 5:28 am
#8
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Verdi, NV, SFO & Olympic (aka Squaw )Valley.
Programs: Ikon Pass Full + AS Gold + Marriott Titanium + Hilton Gold. Recovering UA Plat. LT lounge AA+DL+UA
Posts: 3,823
Bankruptcy was painful, but I'm pretty sure UA went through CH 11 which stops any collateral retrieval efforts. Might you be thinking of some other airline? Was this domestic?
Feb 11, 2014, 6:04 am
#9
Join Date: May 2007
Location: variously: PVG, SFO, LHR
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1MM Gold, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Plat, IHG Plat, HH Gold
Posts: 1,678
I for one don't bash UAL for dumping the CLE hub. Running a RJ hub, with ORD next door, made no sense. Frankly, I'm surprised it did not happen sooner.
This said, I will comment that Delta saw this coming, and went to a strategy of "upgaging" which allowed it to deal better with this issue while also reducing its CASM. AA did this to a lesser degree. Jeff? Well he planed to add only 17 E-175s per discussion in the 4Q 2013 quarterly results, 27 E-175s per the fleet plan (I don't know which is correct). Jeff now has the most capacity in RJs and no plan, other than shaving ASMs, to try to address it.
This said, I will comment that Delta saw this coming, and went to a strategy of "upgaging" which allowed it to deal better with this issue while also reducing its CASM. AA did this to a lesser degree. Jeff? Well he planed to add only 17 E-175s per discussion in the 4Q 2013 quarterly results, 27 E-175s per the fleet plan (I don't know which is correct). Jeff now has the most capacity in RJs and no plan, other than shaving ASMs, to try to address it.
UA placed their order for the E175 as soon as they were contractually able via pilot's contract. You don't get every plane off the line once you place an order; it takes a while to ramp up the fleet.
Feb 11, 2014, 7:10 am
#11
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 3,361
I for one don't bash UAL for dumping the CLE hub. Running a RJ hub, with ORD next door, made no sense. Frankly, I'm surprised it did not happen sooner.
This said, I will comment that Delta saw this coming, and went to a strategy of "upgaging" which allowed it to deal better with this issue while also reducing its CASM. AA did this to a lesser degree. Jeff? Well he planed to add only 17 E-175s per discussion in the 4Q 2013 quarterly results, 27 E-175s per the fleet plan (I don't know which is correct). Jeff now has the most capacity in RJs and no plan, other than shaving ASMs, to try to address it.
This said, I will comment that Delta saw this coming, and went to a strategy of "upgaging" which allowed it to deal better with this issue while also reducing its CASM. AA did this to a lesser degree. Jeff? Well he planed to add only 17 E-175s per discussion in the 4Q 2013 quarterly results, 27 E-175s per the fleet plan (I don't know which is correct). Jeff now has the most capacity in RJs and no plan, other than shaving ASMs, to try to address it.
United's E-175 delivery stream is dependent on Embraer. The can't ramp up production to get United deliveries faster - United must take deliveries as they are available.
Feb 11, 2014, 7:17 am
#12
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: LGA/JFK/EWR
Programs: UA 1K1.75MM, Hyatt Globalist, abandoned Marriott LTT (RIP SPG), Hertz PC
Posts: 21,167
Feb 11, 2014, 7:24 am
#13
Join Date: Mar 2011
Programs: Delta Skymiles
Posts: 1,982
Say what you will about delta, but their RJ situation is much stronger than anyone else's at the moment. As for the 145s, are we really complaining about them when compared to the q400 death traps usair and united enjoy flying so much....
Feb 11, 2014, 7:45 am
#15
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: None - previously UA
Posts: 4,864
The Q400 a death trap? It's as safe as any other plane in the sky today IMO. This pilot situation is going to change the RJ landscape drastically. The costs to get to 1500 hours just don't lend themselves to being paid minimum wage. Regional jet operators are just going to have to pay their pilots a whole lot more to keep them, which means its not going to make sense to fly 50 seat RJ's anymore. I do agree UA seems to be behind the times here, hopefully we see a big order of C Series or E195's from UA or it's RJ operators soon.