No PQD on a bulk ticket!!! Amex tickets {resolved}, other bulk fares what do I earn?
Jan 13, 2014, 4:39 am
#61
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: MUC
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Has the OP contacted Aaron (UA Insider) regarding the matter yet?
Jan 13, 2014, 5:16 am
#62
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Jan 13, 2014, 5:41 am
#63
Join Date: Jan 2014
Programs: UA 1k, SPG Plat
Posts: 4
I am in the exact same situation as OP. This past weekend I completed my first flights of the year, DEN-EWR-MUC-RUH and back. Only the MUC-RUH was on *A partner (LH), the rest on UA metal. Ticket was issued on 016 stock, was purchased by my company's travel agent and cost $1700. PQM and PQS posted immediately, but PQD still at $0. Called UA, got the same bulk-ticket answer and that no PQD would be awarded. In 2013 I had 153K PQM and a spend of about $21K. It looks as if I will have no status with UA in 2015 if I repeat my same business. Considering my options currently, so very interested in hearing the response OP gets from UA. How could I possibly stay with them if they wont give any status to a 150K flyer?
Jan 13, 2014, 5:43 am
#64
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: United Arab Emirates & Arizona, USA
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Seems odd. Domestic A earns 175% RDM and 150% PQM -- the OP said that he received 150%. Did you receive 175% redeemable? And were the fare conditions fairly flexible like a typical A?
Of course it's normal to get corporate discounts with travel agents, but in my past experience with AMEX travel these tickets still earned all of the associated benefits (of course this was before the days of PQD) -- is it typical for AMEX travel and/or the company to negotiate a bulk package with mix-and-match benefits?
Like others, I always assumed (although the language regulating PQD is not identical to that regulating PQM*) that the spirit of PQD was that any UA flight earning PQM would also earn PQD. Let's hope that this proves to be a glitch, and not a major hidden loophole that UA has created to deny some its best customers status. Or they have come up with an ingenious solution to the OPM problem.
*On the web site, the section under "Earning Premier qualifying dollars" states, "Certain specialty tickets, including but not limited to unpublished, consolidator, group/tour and opaque fares, do not earn PQD." But then the link "See exclusions below for details" links to the section entitled, "Exclusions to earning award miles and Premier qualifying credits"; this implies some coherence between PQM and PQD rules.
Of course it's normal to get corporate discounts with travel agents, but in my past experience with AMEX travel these tickets still earned all of the associated benefits (of course this was before the days of PQD) -- is it typical for AMEX travel and/or the company to negotiate a bulk package with mix-and-match benefits?
Like others, I always assumed (although the language regulating PQD is not identical to that regulating PQM*) that the spirit of PQD was that any UA flight earning PQM would also earn PQD. Let's hope that this proves to be a glitch, and not a major hidden loophole that UA has created to deny some its best customers status. Or they have come up with an ingenious solution to the OPM problem.
*On the web site, the section under "Earning Premier qualifying dollars" states, "Certain specialty tickets, including but not limited to unpublished, consolidator, group/tour and opaque fares, do not earn PQD." But then the link "See exclusions below for details" links to the section entitled, "Exclusions to earning award miles and Premier qualifying credits"; this implies some coherence between PQM and PQD rules.
Jan 13, 2014, 5:58 am
#65
Suspended
Join Date: Nov 1999
Posts: 24,153
I am in the exact same situation as OP. This past weekend I completed my first flights of the year, DEN-EWR-MUC-RUH and back. Only the MUC-RUH was on *A partner (LH), the rest on UA metal. Ticket was issued on 016 stock, was purchased by my company's travel agent and cost $1700. PQM and PQS posted immediately, but PQD still at $0. Called UA, got the same bulk-ticket answer and that no PQD would be awarded. In 2013 I had 153K PQM and a spend of about $21K. It looks as if I will have no status with UA in 2015 if I repeat my same business. Considering my options currently, so very interested in hearing the response OP gets from UA. How could I possibly stay with them if they wont give any status to a 150K flyer?
It seems for now they have no way to know it was an Amex tkt and not a Priceline opaque tkt as they are all considered Bulk and dont earn any QDs. Or Orbitz where it can be a multi-carrier tkt and possibly Bulk as well
Not sure Tier pts would work if Bulk fares wont be earning any and if they will how does UA exclude the likes of Pricelines tkts?
Jan 13, 2014, 6:13 am
#66
Join Date: Jan 2009
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Jan 13, 2014, 6:23 am
#67
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 4,508
I'm not sure this is a "glitch" that will be corrected going forward. And I expect we'll be hearing from other corporate flyers experiencing the same "glitch" in the next few days and weeks.
Jan 13, 2014, 6:31 am
#68
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cape Cod MA
Programs: GS, 3 MM, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 752
The problem is miles on airlines have become the modern equivalent of "S&H Green Stamps" that by the 80's had lost all of their value. When coupled with declining service for elites during IROPs and the shifts in the upgrade priorities, I think it more effective to select the most convenient carrier rather than stay with UAL irregardless of the fare basis.
Jan 13, 2014, 6:40 am
#69
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 57,554
Like others, I always assumed (although the language regulating PQD is not identical to that regulating PQM*) that the spirit of PQD was that any UA flight earning PQM would also earn PQD. Let's hope that this proves to be a glitch, and not a major hidden loophole that UA has created to deny some its best customers status. Or they have come up with an ingenious solution to the OPM problem.
Jan 13, 2014, 6:45 am
#70
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Interesting problem with this new PQD scheme.
How is UA going to grant pax proper credit toward status for the dollars spent without revealing the "wholesale price" paid by the companies selling the "BULK" tickets?
Or will they just make something up?
How is UA going to grant pax proper credit toward status for the dollars spent without revealing the "wholesale price" paid by the companies selling the "BULK" tickets?
Or will they just make something up?
Jan 13, 2014, 7:04 am
#71
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Interesting reports...and very ominous for the corporate traveler. So much for "if on UA metal, no need to worry" reassurances. Same with 016 ticket stock. There was reason to worry after all.
I would think UA would want to get ahead of this VERY quickly before all hell breaks loose in the lucrative business travel market.
This is not going to be about losing the mythical legions of 1Ks spending sub $3,000 for status. This hits at the heart of their corporate travelers...managed travelers...whatever they term it at UA.
I would think UA would want to get ahead of this VERY quickly before all hell breaks loose in the lucrative business travel market.
This is not going to be about losing the mythical legions of 1Ks spending sub $3,000 for status. This hits at the heart of their corporate travelers...managed travelers...whatever they term it at UA.
Jan 13, 2014, 7:21 am
#72
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Dayton
Programs: UA 1K, Hilton Diamond, IHG Plat, National Emerald Exec
Posts: 240
Sweet... looks like my upgrade chances in 2015 just keep getting better all the time!
This is a odd situation for sure, as previously stated on a bulk fare what is United going to credit you for PQD? Amex would need to share what you actually paid, which who knows if they do or want to? Certainly you dont want what Amex paid, and clearly they are not going to reveal that.
Perhaps on these sorts of tickets they could grant the lowest paid fare in the same fare class on that flight (of non bulk tickets). Its not ideal but probably better than nothing. I would probably be raising hell with corporate travel about changing the system to non bulk tickets as the savings is clearly not that substantial for you (this may be what United is hoping for anyway).
This is a odd situation for sure, as previously stated on a bulk fare what is United going to credit you for PQD? Amex would need to share what you actually paid, which who knows if they do or want to? Certainly you dont want what Amex paid, and clearly they are not going to reveal that.
Perhaps on these sorts of tickets they could grant the lowest paid fare in the same fare class on that flight (of non bulk tickets). Its not ideal but probably better than nothing. I would probably be raising hell with corporate travel about changing the system to non bulk tickets as the savings is clearly not that substantial for you (this may be what United is hoping for anyway).
Jan 13, 2014, 7:22 am
#73
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OP's beef is with his employer and his employer's business decisions in how it chooses to purchase air travel. TA's simply issue what the employer tells them to issue and this leads to a fundamental misconception on FT. The primary customer here is the employer. OP is to be kept happy only as an ancillary activity.
Depending on the specific deal worked out by OP's employer, UA may not even know what was paid for the ticket. The TA could buy in bulk and market to five large customers. The TA charges what the market will bear. All UA knows is that it sold at wholesale.
OP is free to jump ship, but he should keep his powder dry for the next 12-18 months. Both DL and AA sell bulk tickets under the same circumstances for corporate use. There's no real question which way this whole thing is headed.
Ultimately, "status" is likely more useful for people who are spend a good deal, but are short of real HVC. If you really do travel in paid F (as opposed to fare buckets which get you a FC seat), your tickets are refundable/changeable, you get taken care of in IRROPS to the extent possible and it's more than likely that you are less concerned than others about who pays for your hotel when you get stuck overnight.
Depending on the specific deal worked out by OP's employer, UA may not even know what was paid for the ticket. The TA could buy in bulk and market to five large customers. The TA charges what the market will bear. All UA knows is that it sold at wholesale.
OP is free to jump ship, but he should keep his powder dry for the next 12-18 months. Both DL and AA sell bulk tickets under the same circumstances for corporate use. There's no real question which way this whole thing is headed.
Ultimately, "status" is likely more useful for people who are spend a good deal, but are short of real HVC. If you really do travel in paid F (as opposed to fare buckets which get you a FC seat), your tickets are refundable/changeable, you get taken care of in IRROPS to the extent possible and it's more than likely that you are less concerned than others about who pays for your hotel when you get stuck overnight.
Jan 13, 2014, 7:31 am
#74
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 4,508
OP's beef is with his employer and his employer's business decisions in how it chooses to purchase air travel. TA's simply issue what the employer tells them to issue and this leads to a fundamental misconception on FT. The primary customer here is the employer. OP is to be kept happy only as an ancillary activity.
Depending on the specific deal worked out by OP's employer, UA may not even know what was paid for the ticket. The TA could buy in bulk and market to five large customers. The TA charges what the market will bear. All UA knows is that it sold at wholesale.
OP is free to jump ship, but he should keep his powder dry for the next 12-18 months. Both DL and AA sell bulk tickets under the same circumstances for corporate use. There's no real question which way this whole thing is headed.
Ultimately, "status" is likely more useful for people who are spend a good deal, but are short of real HVC. If you really do travel in paid F (as opposed to fare buckets which get you a FC seat), your tickets are refundable/changeable, you get taken care of in IRROPS to the extent possible and it's more than likely that you are less concerned than others about who pays for your hotel when you get stuck overnight.
Depending on the specific deal worked out by OP's employer, UA may not even know what was paid for the ticket. The TA could buy in bulk and market to five large customers. The TA charges what the market will bear. All UA knows is that it sold at wholesale.
OP is free to jump ship, but he should keep his powder dry for the next 12-18 months. Both DL and AA sell bulk tickets under the same circumstances for corporate use. There's no real question which way this whole thing is headed.
Ultimately, "status" is likely more useful for people who are spend a good deal, but are short of real HVC. If you really do travel in paid F (as opposed to fare buckets which get you a FC seat), your tickets are refundable/changeable, you get taken care of in IRROPS to the extent possible and it's more than likely that you are less concerned than others about who pays for your hotel when you get stuck overnight.
Jan 13, 2014, 7:35 am
#75
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: near to SFO and LHR
Programs: BA Gold, B6 Mosiac, VS, AA, DL (and a legacy UA 2MM)
Posts: 2,274
I have a feeling that this will be fixed in the near future, as there are too many high value flyers using travel agents for United to ignore.
I hope that each person who experiences this will individually contact 1k Voice (or equivalent) and make them acutely aware of this glitch.