Jan 12, 2014, 3:56 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
This thread is for posting about how the PQDs for particular flown segments post to the United website. How many PQDs posted for a particular segment, the timing of the posting, and similar issues belong here.
For a more general discussion and Q&A about PQDs, use this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ad-2014-a.html
How many PQDs will post for each segment?
We're still trying to figure that out! In general, though, here's how it's supposed to work: For each fare* in your itinerary, the PQDs (airfare + YQ) for that fare will be distributed across the segments associated with that fare using an "industry standard" method that is opaque.
*Airline tickets are generally priced all the way from your origin to your destination as a single one-way or half-round-trip fare. For example, if you fly LAX-SFO-EWR-LHR-FRA//FRA-IAD-DEN-LAX, there will usually be a single half-rount-trip fare associated with the entire outbound trip, and a single half-round-trip fare associated with the entire return trip. In general, you do not pay a specific price for each segment of your trip. Understanding this simple idea is fundamental to understanding how airfare is priced. Sometimes, though, your trip will be made up of several fares all tacked together. For example, it could be that the return trip in the above example is constructed as FRA-IAD-DEN//DEN-LAX. In this case, the fare is said to "break" at DEN. It is essential to know where fare breaks occur in your itinerary in order to predict/explain PQD earnings for each segment. (You should probably learn how this stuff works anyway, because it can help you understand why some tickets cost more than others, where you can put in a free stopover, etc.)
What is the most helpful way for me to report the PQD breakdown for a trip I took?
If you want to contribute the most information possible, post the PQDs associated with each segment of your trip, and post the full fare construction of your trip.
To see the fare construction, go to the Saudi Airlines website, click on "Manage Bookings," click "eTicket," and enter your ticket number (beginning with 016). There's also a browser extension/script available to ease the Saudia link/searching: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-analysis.html.
A few notes on how contract fares can be negotiated per daniellam:
For a more general discussion and Q&A about PQDs, use this thread: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ad-2014-a.html
How many PQDs will post for each segment?
We're still trying to figure that out! In general, though, here's how it's supposed to work: For each fare* in your itinerary, the PQDs (airfare + YQ) for that fare will be distributed across the segments associated with that fare using an "industry standard" method that is opaque.
*Airline tickets are generally priced all the way from your origin to your destination as a single one-way or half-round-trip fare. For example, if you fly LAX-SFO-EWR-LHR-FRA//FRA-IAD-DEN-LAX, there will usually be a single half-rount-trip fare associated with the entire outbound trip, and a single half-round-trip fare associated with the entire return trip. In general, you do not pay a specific price for each segment of your trip. Understanding this simple idea is fundamental to understanding how airfare is priced. Sometimes, though, your trip will be made up of several fares all tacked together. For example, it could be that the return trip in the above example is constructed as FRA-IAD-DEN//DEN-LAX. In this case, the fare is said to "break" at DEN. It is essential to know where fare breaks occur in your itinerary in order to predict/explain PQD earnings for each segment. (You should probably learn how this stuff works anyway, because it can help you understand why some tickets cost more than others, where you can put in a free stopover, etc.)
What is the most helpful way for me to report the PQD breakdown for a trip I took?
If you want to contribute the most information possible, post the PQDs associated with each segment of your trip, and post the full fare construction of your trip.
To see the fare construction, go to the Saudi Airlines website, click on "Manage Bookings," click "eTicket," and enter your ticket number (beginning with 016). There's also a browser extension/script available to ease the Saudia link/searching: http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-analysis.html.
A few notes on how contract fares can be negotiated per daniellam:
Having used bulk and corporate negotiated fare tickets in the past and being familiar with the the various ticketing methods used by travel agencies, the following are three methods which I have observed and each have their own implications in terms of accounting/reimbursement by the travel agency and their corporate client ("employer") as well as the earning of PQDs.
In each of these scenarios, we will assume the following (ignoring taxes and other fees the corporate travel agency may add on top):
- The regular published fare before corporate discount is $1,000
- Negotiated corporate fare contract allows the fare to be sold for $750 (travel agent keeps $50) with the net fare being $700.
- Payment method is credit card in all cases, and the employee buying the ticket is reimbursed for the amount charged to the credit card.
Method 1 - Published Fare with Commission Method (only if contract allows this method to be used)
Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: $1,000 (this can be pulled up on united.com)
"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $300 (travel agent keeps $50) [A special corporate code is entered onto the e-ticket]
What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: Looks just just any other e-ticket that was purchased directly from United Airlines, with the exception of a code in the "tour code" field (not normally visible on united.com).
Invoice from travel agency shows: $1,000
Payment flow:
1) Passenger is charged $1,000 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "United Airilnes") and the employer reimburses him $1,000 once an expense report is completed.
2) Travel Agency receives $300 "commission" from the airline and keeps $50.
3) Travel Agency cuts a check to the employer for $250.
End result: The employer pays $1,000 less $250 for a net of $750. (Note: The employer may bill the client $1,000 for the employee's travel if they can get away with it).
PQD Earned: $1,000
Implications: More accounting work needs to be done by travel agency to determine how much to pay the employer. Employer needs to pay the published fare and wait for the "rebate" from the travel agency.
Method 2 - Published Fare with Corporate Discount (only if contract allows this method to be used)
Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: $750 (this can be pulled up on united.com)
[A "ticket designator" is added to the fare basis (eg. QUP14QPN/CORP) where as an example "CORP" is the ticket designator to denote "corporate fare")]
"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $50 (travel agent keeps $50) [A special corporate code is entered onto the e-ticket as well]
What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: Looks just just any other e-ticket that was purchased directly from United Airlines, with the exception of a code in the "tour code" field, "ticket designator" (not normally visible on united.com) and of course a lower fare than what it would have been if purchased on united.com.
Invoice from travel agency shows: $750
Payment flow:
1) Passenger is charged $750 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "United Airilnes") and the employer reimburses him $750 once an expense report is completed.
2) Travel Agency receives $50 "commission" from the airline and keeps $50.
End result: The employer pays a net fare of $750. (Note: The employer may only be able to bill the client $750 in this case).
PQD Earned: $750
Implications: Less accounting work needs to be done by travel agency. Employer does not need to wait for "rebate", but can only bill the client the fare less corporate discount.
Method 3A - Bulk Ticketing with "credit card" as form of payment (perhaps this method seems to be the easiest to use when automated online booking tools such as Concur are used to automatically quote fares/issue tickets as only the "bulk" fare between specified city pairs need to be loaded into the system instead of having to program a bunch of specialized ticketing instructions into the system for each corporate contract???)
Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: "BULK" or "BT" or "IT" (this can be pulled up on united.com)
[Note: When the travel agent issues the ticket, $750 is entered as the fare with a "BULK"/"BT"/"IT" flag added so that the fare dosen't show up on the ticket. This results in the fare amount being transmitted only the the revenue accounting department of the airline, while other staff at the airline don't see the price]
"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $50 (travel agent keeps $50) [A special corporate code is entered onto the e-ticket as well]
What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: "BULK" / "BT" / "IT" in fare box, as well as a fare basis that may either be that of a published fare or an obscure one such as "YBULK".
Invoice from travel agency shows: $750
Payment flow:
1) Passenger is charged $750 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "United Airilnes") and the employer reimburses him $750 once an expense report is completed.
2) Travel Agency receives $50 "commission" from the airline and keeps $50.
End result: The employer pays a net fare of $750. (Note: The employer may only be able to bill the client $750).
PQD Earned: $0 [Because United dosen't know how much was actually paid without referring to their revenue accounting department]
Implications: Minimal accounting work needs to be done by travel agency. Employer does not need to wait for rebate. Employee does not get PQD.
Method 3B - Bulk Ticketing with "Cash" or "Invoice" as form of payment (even though payment is by credit card)
Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: "BULK" or "BT" or "IT" (this can be pulled up on united.com)
[Note: When the travel agent issues the ticket, $700 is entered as the fare with a "BULK"/"BT"/"IT" flag added so that the fare dosen't show up on the ticket. This results in the fare amount being transmitted only the the revenue accounting department of the airline, while other staff at the airline don't see the price]
"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $0
What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: "BULK" / "BT" / "IT" in fare box, as well as a fare basis that may either be that of a published fare or an obscure one such as "YBULK".
Invoice from travel agency shows: $750 (note the agent is basically selling that $700 ticket for $750)
Payment flow:
1) Passenger is charged $750 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "AMERICAN EXPRESS TRAVEL" instead of "United Airlines") and the employer reimburses him $750 once an expense report is completed.
End result: The employer pays a net fare of $750. (Note: The employer may only be able to bill the client $750).
PQD Earned: $0 [Because United dosen't know how much was actually paid without referring to their revenue accounting department]
Implications: Minimal accounting work needs to be done by travel agency. Employer does not need to wait for rebate. Employee does not get PQD.
Voucher impact on PQDs is covered in Vouchers in the PQD era In each of these scenarios, we will assume the following (ignoring taxes and other fees the corporate travel agency may add on top):
- The regular published fare before corporate discount is $1,000
- Negotiated corporate fare contract allows the fare to be sold for $750 (travel agent keeps $50) with the net fare being $700.
- Payment method is credit card in all cases, and the employee buying the ticket is reimbursed for the amount charged to the credit card.
Method 1 - Published Fare with Commission Method (only if contract allows this method to be used)
Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: $1,000 (this can be pulled up on united.com)
"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $300 (travel agent keeps $50) [A special corporate code is entered onto the e-ticket]
What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: Looks just just any other e-ticket that was purchased directly from United Airlines, with the exception of a code in the "tour code" field (not normally visible on united.com).
Invoice from travel agency shows: $1,000
Payment flow:
1) Passenger is charged $1,000 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "United Airilnes") and the employer reimburses him $1,000 once an expense report is completed.
2) Travel Agency receives $300 "commission" from the airline and keeps $50.
3) Travel Agency cuts a check to the employer for $250.
End result: The employer pays $1,000 less $250 for a net of $750. (Note: The employer may bill the client $1,000 for the employee's travel if they can get away with it).
PQD Earned: $1,000
Implications: More accounting work needs to be done by travel agency to determine how much to pay the employer. Employer needs to pay the published fare and wait for the "rebate" from the travel agency.
Method 2 - Published Fare with Corporate Discount (only if contract allows this method to be used)
Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: $750 (this can be pulled up on united.com)
[A "ticket designator" is added to the fare basis (eg. QUP14QPN/CORP) where as an example "CORP" is the ticket designator to denote "corporate fare")]
"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $50 (travel agent keeps $50) [A special corporate code is entered onto the e-ticket as well]
What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: Looks just just any other e-ticket that was purchased directly from United Airlines, with the exception of a code in the "tour code" field, "ticket designator" (not normally visible on united.com) and of course a lower fare than what it would have been if purchased on united.com.
Invoice from travel agency shows: $750
Payment flow:
1) Passenger is charged $750 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "United Airilnes") and the employer reimburses him $750 once an expense report is completed.
2) Travel Agency receives $50 "commission" from the airline and keeps $50.
End result: The employer pays a net fare of $750. (Note: The employer may only be able to bill the client $750 in this case).
PQD Earned: $750
Implications: Less accounting work needs to be done by travel agency. Employer does not need to wait for "rebate", but can only bill the client the fare less corporate discount.
Method 3A - Bulk Ticketing with "credit card" as form of payment (perhaps this method seems to be the easiest to use when automated online booking tools such as Concur are used to automatically quote fares/issue tickets as only the "bulk" fare between specified city pairs need to be loaded into the system instead of having to program a bunch of specialized ticketing instructions into the system for each corporate contract???)
Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: "BULK" or "BT" or "IT" (this can be pulled up on united.com)
[Note: When the travel agent issues the ticket, $750 is entered as the fare with a "BULK"/"BT"/"IT" flag added so that the fare dosen't show up on the ticket. This results in the fare amount being transmitted only the the revenue accounting department of the airline, while other staff at the airline don't see the price]
"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $50 (travel agent keeps $50) [A special corporate code is entered onto the e-ticket as well]
What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: "BULK" / "BT" / "IT" in fare box, as well as a fare basis that may either be that of a published fare or an obscure one such as "YBULK".
Invoice from travel agency shows: $750
Payment flow:
1) Passenger is charged $750 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "United Airilnes") and the employer reimburses him $750 once an expense report is completed.
2) Travel Agency receives $50 "commission" from the airline and keeps $50.
End result: The employer pays a net fare of $750. (Note: The employer may only be able to bill the client $750).
PQD Earned: $0 [Because United dosen't know how much was actually paid without referring to their revenue accounting department]
Implications: Minimal accounting work needs to be done by travel agency. Employer does not need to wait for rebate. Employee does not get PQD.
Method 3B - Bulk Ticketing with "Cash" or "Invoice" as form of payment (even though payment is by credit card)
Fare on e-ticket receipt shows: "BULK" or "BT" or "IT" (this can be pulled up on united.com)
[Note: When the travel agent issues the ticket, $700 is entered as the fare with a "BULK"/"BT"/"IT" flag added so that the fare dosen't show up on the ticket. This results in the fare amount being transmitted only the the revenue accounting department of the airline, while other staff at the airline don't see the price]
"Commission" claimed when ticket issued: $0
What the e-ticket looks like to the passenger: "BULK" / "BT" / "IT" in fare box, as well as a fare basis that may either be that of a published fare or an obscure one such as "YBULK".
Invoice from travel agency shows: $750 (note the agent is basically selling that $700 ticket for $750)
Payment flow:
1) Passenger is charged $750 on his corporate AMEX (merchant on credit card bill shows up as "AMERICAN EXPRESS TRAVEL" instead of "United Airlines") and the employer reimburses him $750 once an expense report is completed.
End result: The employer pays a net fare of $750. (Note: The employer may only be able to bill the client $750).
PQD Earned: $0 [Because United dosen't know how much was actually paid without referring to their revenue accounting department]
Implications: Minimal accounting work needs to be done by travel agency. Employer does not need to wait for rebate. Employee does not get PQD.
It Begins: PQDs Posting on United.com
Mar 30, 2014, 1:02 pm
#646
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: UA Platinum
Posts: 252
Update on the missing LH PQD situation: After the outbound and return flights on the LH operated portion of an 016 itin didn't post (miles or PQD), filed missing mileage request and received mileage but not PQD (pqds shown as 'ineligible'). Called in, explained the situation, was asked how many PQDs i thought I was missing, was put on hold for quite a while, and then agent came back and said that the PQDs should post within the next 5 business days. Two days later, they posted...correctly! Interestingly, they didn't change the PQD entry on the flights themselves (still show as ineligible), but added separate 'PQD adjustment' lines to get the total.
I wonder if this is how they plan to deal with the issue from now on (presumably still requiring us to call in for the correction). And I wonder further how rigorously they check the amount of PQDs I claimed to be missing, as they posted the exact amount that I stated, which is what I had calculated based on the fare construction (i.e. what would've happened if I'd claimed a larger number)
I wonder if this is how they plan to deal with the issue from now on (presumably still requiring us to call in for the correction). And I wonder further how rigorously they check the amount of PQDs I claimed to be missing, as they posted the exact amount that I stated, which is what I had calculated based on the fare construction (i.e. what would've happened if I'd claimed a larger number)
Mar 30, 2014, 5:04 pm
#647
Moderator, Omni, Omni/PR, Omni/Games, FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Between DCA and IAD
Programs: UA 1K MM; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 67,108
My normal process for tracking these has been:
- Enter total trip PQD and per-segment PQM into my spreadsheet at time of booking.
- As flights post, enter their individual PQD and display a calculated trip PQD
- Compare
Typically, the posted PQD is slightly over the purchased PQD (by $1/segment due to rounding by UA, amazingly in the customer's favor for once). I also enter notes if there were any irrops or other discrepancies.
I wouldn't have noticed (yet) the discrepancy if channa hadn't posted, as the totals agreed just fine when I entered my most recent PQD postings on Friday, and I wouldn't have checked again until the next booking or posting.
I'm going to see if I have the fare construction anywhere for the affected trip; I usually just have the total base fare + any YQ, though.
Mar 31, 2014, 3:39 am
#648
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Home, where we should all be
Programs: Who knows anymore. It's a f---ing pandemic.
Posts: 273
Trying not to worry too much, because I just landed from my LH leg on a 016 UA ticket in FRA 3 hours ago, but nothing has posted yet (unlike last trip to LHR where it had pretty much posted at wheels down). I'd still be 114 miles from silver (grr), so it's not make-or-break, but I'll stay on them.
Mar 31, 2014, 12:09 pm
#649
Join Date: Jan 2005
Programs: SQ, QF, UA, CO, DL
Posts: 2,879
This sounds familiar. I was trying to buy a couple of domestic RT tix on the MS site but verified by Visa did not like their security code or something. So I went to ual.com and was able to get the same flights for only $5 more. Quickly and easily. Miles posted but PQDs stayed "pending" a long time before going to "ineligible". First email response I got back was that MS flights are not eligible, only partner airlines or Star carriers ticketed on 016 stock.....
Not big dollars but I am wondering if we now need to track all those PQDs more carefully. Clearly we cannot rely on UA to do this.
Not big dollars but I am wondering if we now need to track all those PQDs more carefully. Clearly we cannot rely on UA to do this.
) they are doing some kind of audit to catch these things.
Apr 2, 2014, 10:31 am
#650
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Växjö, SE/Washington, DC
Programs: AA ExPlat, UA 1K (2MM)
Posts: 1,159
FF programs are outside DOT's brief and DOT will not get involved in any enforcement action regarding FF programs. They will categorize and pass on to the airline those complaints. IMO it is a waste for tax payer funds to involve the DOT in these non-relevant issues.
Understand folks well placed angry with UA but flooding a important government channel with no relevant issues is a misuse of the process.
Understand folks well placed angry with UA but flooding a important government channel with no relevant issues is a misuse of the process.
Federal law also provides protection for frequent flyer program participants. Congress has given the Department of Transportation (DOT) the general authority to prohibit and punish unfair and deceptive practices in air transportation and in the sale of air transportation, 49 U. S. C. §41712(a), and Congress has specifically authorized the DOT to investigate complaints relating to frequent flyer programs. See FAA Modernization and Reform Act of 2012, §408(6), 126 Stat. 87. Pursuant to these provisions, the DOT regularly entertains and acts on such complaints.
per Seth's blog: Lawsuit decided against Rabbi in frequent flyer account termination
While I understand not wanting to clog gov't channels, that said, if PQDs continue to not be handled correctly for customers this is the channel people should take vs wasting hours of their time emailing/calling UA.
Apr 2, 2014, 10:49 am
#651
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: WAS/ BOM
Programs: UA 1K, Marriott Gold, HHonors Gold
Posts: 1,567
Trying not to worry too much, because I just landed from my LH leg on a 016 UA ticket in FRA 3 hours ago, but nothing has posted yet (unlike last trip to LHR where it had pretty much posted at wheels down). I'd still be 114 miles from silver (grr), so it's not make-or-break, but I'll stay on them.
Apr 2, 2014, 11:47 am
#652
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K MM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 4,768
Has anyone had any luck getting credit for an interisland flight in Hawaii on Hawaiian Airlines? I had an HNL>LIH segment that was part of a LAX>HNL>LIH>LAX RT last weekend. It's on 016 stick, think it was a V fare. The website seems to say I should get credit for this but I don't even see Hawaiian listed in the "missing mileage credit" form. Did I miss a policy change? Haven't taken an interisland flight in some time.
Apr 2, 2014, 2:58 pm
#653
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Home, where we should all be
Programs: Who knows anymore. It's a f---ing pandemic.
Posts: 273
UA set my expectations high after my BNA-LHR journey posted so fast. To date, nothing from my IAD-FRA from 3/30, and a near-disaster due to LH strike. (LH was first planned segment of return, and when that was cancelled I apparently almost "forfeited" the rest of the journey. Good thing I called and re-confirmed that I'd go FRA-BRU by train and still be there to catch the next leg!)
Apr 2, 2014, 4:16 pm
#654
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,777
I guess I see a difference between disagreement on T&C or ineptness versus deceptive practices.
Apr 2, 2014, 5:26 pm
#655
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,067
Apr 2, 2014, 10:20 pm
#656
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,777
Apr 2, 2014, 10:29 pm
#657
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,423
Now whether DOT would ever do anything is a completely different issue . . . .
Apr 14, 2014, 8:23 am
#658
Join Date: May 2012
Location: ORF, RIC
Programs: UA LT 1K, 3 MM; Marriott Titanium; IHG Platinum
Posts: 6,944
PQDs are different for outbound and inbound flights
The booking fares were identical for RIC-IND and IND-RIC flights. The connection cities were different (IAD vs. ORD). Yet, the PQD for IND-ORD-RIC was $19 higher than RIC-IAD-IND. The only explanation is the day of the week. The Friday fare is higher than Wednesday fare under an identical booking code. Happy travels.
Apr 14, 2014, 9:59 am
#659
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ORD
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 16,900
Sorry if this has been asked and answered.
I'm currently beginning my battle with UA/LH over miles not posted for a P fare - booked on 016 stock, LH metal. With PQD posting for each leg, if I don't win the miles battle will I also never see the PQD?
I'm currently beginning my battle with UA/LH over miles not posted for a P fare - booked on 016 stock, LH metal. With PQD posting for each leg, if I don't win the miles battle will I also never see the PQD?
Apr 14, 2014, 12:42 pm
#660
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 35
Consistent PQD Errors
Just noticed on my last few flights, the Premier Qualifying Dollars credited to my account were way off. Each was segment ~$50 when, in fact, they should have been $150-250.
I realized on each of these segments, I switched flights and got confirmed seats within 24 hours. I also did a 24 hour switch on a flight in February during the crazy winter weather stuff, and sure enough, that flight was credited at a low dollar amount too.
Are other folks seeing similar errors?
I realized on each of these segments, I switched flights and got confirmed seats within 24 hours. I also did a 24 hour switch on a flight in February during the crazy winter weather stuff, and sure enough, that flight was credited at a low dollar amount too.
Are other folks seeing similar errors?