Jan 1, 2014, 9:23 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Presented as Q&A format (Originally posted by Alex_B)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Update1: Recent reports suggest that a stopover at origin is no longer permitted, which closes the free one-way option.
Update2: added SO/OJ at origin on two PNRs (identical in routing) with two different agents on 7/6/14 without any issues/questions.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Other notes:
•The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
•For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
•Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Q: What is a stopover?
A: A stopover on an international itinerary is any break in your air travel for more than 24 hours except at the destination.
Q: What is an open-jaw?
A: An open-jaw is where you travel by your own means (either land, sea or a separate air ticket) between two points in a journey.
Q: How many stopovers am I allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: One stopover is permitted (an unlimited number of stops less than 24hours is allowable).
Q: How many open-jaws are allowed on a roundtrip award?
A: Two open-jaws are permitted. These must be at the stopover, destination or origin.
Q: Can I have a stopover or open-jaw on a one-way award?
A: No
Q: Can I have a open-jaw at both the stopover and destination?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this
Q: Can I transit my destination multiple times (e.g. fly to JNB, fly to CPT and then return home via JNB)?
A: Yes, plenty of posters have reported success in booking this. You can only stop in your destination for > 24 hours once though.
Q: Can I cross both oceans?
A: Yes. The rule that prohibited crossing both oceans appears to have been removed from both MP and *A award rules. There are many many successful examples of people booking these itineraries.
Q: Is EWR-PVG transatlantic or transpacific?
A: US-East Asia/South East Asia is always transpacific no matter what geography might suggest.
Q: Do I pay more for a stopover or open-jaw?
A: Typically no additional mileage is required but additional taxes or fees are often payable (especially in UK with high Air Passenger Duty). Extra mileage will often be required if an open-jaw or stopover adds a higher cost region into the itinerary. Also awards wholly within CONUS, Canada and Alaska (formerly known as Series 0 awards) require additional mileage (10K miles) for a stopover of >4 hrs.
Q: What's this about a free one-way I can get on awards?
A: The concept of free one-ways is a misnomer and often confuses people, it is better to consider it a stopover in the city of origin. If you have a simple roundtrip award without a stopover, you can often create a stopover and open-jaw at your origin on the return leg to add an addition flight. E.g. I wish to book EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR which is a roundtrip US-Europe award. I could also book this as EWR-LHR (destination)-EWR (stopover)-SFO for the same mileage (and a few dollars of extra tax). The EWR segment would need to be within 330 days of booking and would be subject to the usual change fees.
Update1: Recent reports suggest that a stopover at origin is no longer permitted, which closes the free one-way option.
Update2: added SO/OJ at origin on two PNRs (identical in routing) with two different agents on 7/6/14 without any issues/questions.
Q: When I try to book my OJ itinerary online, the website errors out. Does that mean there is something wrong with my itinerary?
A: Not necessarily. The website typically can't handle complex itineraries. These must generally be called in.
Other notes:
•The open-jaw portion must be smaller (in miles) than any other leg. -While technically true for revenue fare construction this is not strictly enforced on awards.
•For awards between CONUS/Canada/Alaska and South Asia award regions the maximum number of segments is 5 segments each way on a round-trip and 4 segments on a one-way. (Note that many FTers report recently being read a memo that imposes an eight segment maximum on a roundtrip (4 each way). It is unclear whether this eight-segment maximum is limited to South Asia routings through Europe or North Asia, or has broader application.)
•Stopovers and open-jaws are NOT additive. You do not get extra stops included in your itinerary simply by making an open-jaw out of it.
Seeing your fare construction on an already booked award ticket:
In order to see your award fare construction to see where your stopovers and destination are, follow these steps.
Go to http://www.saudiairlines.com/
Then hit "Manage My Bookings" and select "E-Ticket"
Enter your UA ticket number (hint: 016 will go in the first box, and then everything else in the second box). Then your last name and hit "Retrieve My Booking". On the next page you'll see a line like this under "Fare Calculation":
CHI LH X/FRA LH ROM0.00CSM/YB52 /- FLR LH X/FRA LH X/DUS LH CHI UA SEA
This example is:
ORD-FRA-FCO
Open Jaw at Destination
FLR-FRA-DUS-ORD
Stopover at origin
ORD-SEA
Previous thread on this topic:
Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights (Consolidated)
Consolidated: Rules for Open Jaw & Stopover Award Flights [2014]
Jan 2, 2014, 12:22 am
#16
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,769
None of your examples will work -- they each have 3 stops (2 stopovers and a destination) which is not allowed.
You can have a destination and a stopover. The up to 2xOJs need to be in conjunction with a origin / destination or stopover. If not, the OJ will create another stopover.
You can have a destination and a stopover. The up to 2xOJs need to be in conjunction with a origin / destination or stopover. If not, the OJ will create another stopover.
Jan 2, 2014, 4:22 am
#17
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
Programs: Some of this 'n some of that
Posts: 17,263
No.
You cannot transit Asia on a N America --> Europe itin. If 'some travel blogs' claim it to be so they are wrong.
That may be so but 1) this isn't a US forum and 2) your responding to a post inquiring about N America --> Asia --> Europe.
That may be so but 1) this isn't a US forum and 2) your responding to a post inquiring about N America --> Asia --> Europe.
Jan 2, 2014, 6:38 am
#18
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 643
None of your examples will work -- they each have 3 stops (2 stopovers and a destination) which is not allowed.
You can have a destination and a stopover. The up to 2xOJs need to be in conjunction with a origin / destination or stopover. If not, the OJ will create another stopover.
You can have a destination and a stopover. The up to 2xOJs need to be in conjunction with a origin / destination or stopover. If not, the OJ will create another stopover.
Jfk-cai
Spend two days (stopover)
Cai-her
Spend seven days (destination)
Her-ssh
Spend two days (open jaw)
Cai-jfk
As this, if legal, would allow me to book and fly ssh-cai on MS with money, and that is very inexpensive.
Last edited by IAATM; Jan 2, 2014 at 7:50 am Reason: Clarify stopover vs open jaw
Jan 2, 2014, 10:36 am
#19
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,769
The OJ MUST be at the origin, destination or at the one allowed stopover. The OJ can not create an additional stop.
You are misunderstanding how OJ can be used.
Jan 2, 2014, 11:49 am
#20
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Seattle WA
Programs: AS 100K, Marriott LT Platinum
Posts: 1,828
FWIW, I was ultimately able to ticket a one way award with one segment arriving HND and another departing NRT and less than 24 hours on the ground. So apparently they are coterminals/legal and not considered an open jaw
Jan 2, 2014, 12:29 pm
#21
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AMEX Centurion/Platinum, SPG Platinum, ICH Platinum, UA 1K, Delta Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 441
I'm trying to do:
BOS -MNL (destination) - PEK (open jaw) - BOS - LAS ("free one-way"), but the system and CSR both say it's invalid, but CSR states she doesn't know why it's booting it out. I think it's because I exceed 4 segments on the return...
3 on the way there:
BOS - ZRH
ZRH - BKK
BKK - MNL
5 on the way home:
PEK - ADD
ADD - IAD
IAD - BOS
BOS - PHX
PHX - LAS
The BOS - LAS portion doesn't have direct flights... boohoo...
BOS -MNL (destination) - PEK (open jaw) - BOS - LAS ("free one-way"), but the system and CSR both say it's invalid, but CSR states she doesn't know why it's booting it out. I think it's because I exceed 4 segments on the return...
3 on the way there:
BOS - ZRH
ZRH - BKK
BKK - MNL
5 on the way home:
PEK - ADD
ADD - IAD
IAD - BOS
BOS - PHX
PHX - LAS
The BOS - LAS portion doesn't have direct flights... boohoo...
Jan 2, 2014, 2:22 pm
#22
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: London, UK
Programs: BA Gold, UA Nobody, Hilton Gold
Posts: 2,372
Thanks, and what i wanted to say from the start was: "yes, i know that this is illegal as written, so please help me modify my itin in a way to make it legal"; but thanks again for confirming that this, as originally written, is not bookable on UA using miles.
Now, back to the original question: If youre saying that UA gives me two
open jaws and a stopover, then would the following be legal?
JFK-CAI non stop on MS using miles
Spend two days in CAI
Fly CAI-ATH on MS using money
Fly ATH-HER on A3 using miles (open jaw #1)
Spend seven nights in Crete (stop over)
Fly HER-ATH on A3 using miles (open jaw #2)
Fly ATH-CAI on MS using money
Spend two nights in Cairo.
Fly CAI-JFK non stop on MS using miles
Yes? No? Legal on a UA reward ticket? Or illegal? And if illegal, is there a tweak that I can make to make it legal?
Or alternatively, is this legal?
JFK-CAI non stop on MS using miles
Spend two days in CAI
Fly CAI-ATH on MS using miles (open jaw #1)
Fly ATH-HER on A3 using money as part of a cheap round trip
Spend seven nights in Crete (stop over)
Fly HER-ATH on A3 using money as part of a cheap round trip
Fly ATH-CAI on MS using miles (open jaw #2)
Spend two nights in Cairo
Fly CAI-JFK non stop on MS using miles
This would be the preferable itin, becauuse buying ATH-HER-ATH on A3 is very, very cheap. However, I am not sure if this itin is legal and bookable on UA or not. Your thoughts?
Now, back to the original question: If youre saying that UA gives me two
open jaws and a stopover, then would the following be legal?
JFK-CAI non stop on MS using miles
Spend two days in CAI
Fly CAI-ATH on MS using money
Fly ATH-HER on A3 using miles (open jaw #1)
Spend seven nights in Crete (stop over)
Fly HER-ATH on A3 using miles (open jaw #2)
Fly ATH-CAI on MS using money
Spend two nights in Cairo.
Fly CAI-JFK non stop on MS using miles
Yes? No? Legal on a UA reward ticket? Or illegal? And if illegal, is there a tweak that I can make to make it legal?
Or alternatively, is this legal?
JFK-CAI non stop on MS using miles
Spend two days in CAI
Fly CAI-ATH on MS using miles (open jaw #1)
Fly ATH-HER on A3 using money as part of a cheap round trip
Spend seven nights in Crete (stop over)
Fly HER-ATH on A3 using money as part of a cheap round trip
Fly ATH-CAI on MS using miles (open jaw #2)
Spend two nights in Cairo
Fly CAI-JFK non stop on MS using miles
This would be the preferable itin, becauuse buying ATH-HER-ATH on A3 is very, very cheap. However, I am not sure if this itin is legal and bookable on UA or not. Your thoughts?
JFK-CAI (stop 1 & OJ 1)
ATH-HER (destination
HER-ATH (stop 2 & OJ 2) - Hence illegal
CAI-JFK
Option 2 with the purchased segments removed:
JFK-CAI (stop 1)
CAI-ATH (destination
ATH-CAI (stop 2) - Hence illegal
CAI-JFK
My suggestion would be to not try and stop twice in Cairo. Something like
JFK-CAI (stop)
CAI-ATH-HER (destination)
HER-(anywhere in Europe/N. Africa)-JFK
is valid, if you really want to see three places then try:
JFK-CAI (stop)
CAI-ATH (destination and open jaw)
ATH-HER (purchased with money)
HER-(anywhere in Europe/N. Africa)-JFK
Jan 2, 2014, 3:02 pm
#23
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Boston, MA
Programs: AMEX Centurion/Platinum, SPG Platinum, ICH Platinum, UA 1K, Delta Gold, Hilton Gold
Posts: 441
Got it to work after reducing the return segments to 4!
I'm trying to do:
BOS -MNL (destination) - PEK (open jaw) - BOS - LAS ("free one-way"), but the system and CSR both say it's invalid, but CSR states she doesn't know why it's booting it out. I think it's because I exceed 4 segments on the return...
3 on the way there:
BOS - ZRH
ZRH - BKK
BKK - MNL
5 on the way home:
PEK - ADD
ADD - IAD
IAD - BOS
BOS - PHX
PHX - LAS
The BOS - LAS portion doesn't have direct flights... boohoo...
BOS -MNL (destination) - PEK (open jaw) - BOS - LAS ("free one-way"), but the system and CSR both say it's invalid, but CSR states she doesn't know why it's booting it out. I think it's because I exceed 4 segments on the return...
3 on the way there:
BOS - ZRH
ZRH - BKK
BKK - MNL
5 on the way home:
PEK - ADD
ADD - IAD
IAD - BOS
BOS - PHX
PHX - LAS
The BOS - LAS portion doesn't have direct flights... boohoo...
Jan 2, 2014, 4:23 pm
#24
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 643
My suggestion would be to not try and stop twice in Cairo. Something like
JFK-CAI (stop)
CAI-ATH-HER (destination)
HER-(anywhere in Europe/N. Africa)-JFK
is valid, if you really want to see three places then try:
JFK-CAI (stop)
CAI-ATH (destination and open jaw)
ATH-HER (purchased with money)
HER-(anywhere in Europe/N. Africa)-JFK
JFK-CAI (stop)
CAI-ATH-HER (destination)
HER-(anywhere in Europe/N. Africa)-JFK
is valid, if you really want to see three places then try:
JFK-CAI (stop)
CAI-ATH (destination and open jaw)
ATH-HER (purchased with money)
HER-(anywhere in Europe/N. Africa)-JFK
Jan 2, 2014, 7:45 pm
#25
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,695
I am looking to burn the rest of my miles before the big devaluation. I will be in Europe and am looking for a OW home to the states hopefully via NH and LH F.
Am I allowed to go Europe -> NA via Asia?
How about Europe -> Asia via the US? If so can I stopover in the US?
If I book LH C and F opens at day 14, can I switch for free (or $75 booking fee)?
Am I allowed to go Europe -> NA via Asia?
How about Europe -> Asia via the US? If so can I stopover in the US?
If I book LH C and F opens at day 14, can I switch for free (or $75 booking fee)?
Jan 2, 2014, 8:51 pm
#26
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: IAH
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, SPG Platinum, Hilton Diamond, A3 Gold
Posts: 601
"Open jaw" on stop-over?
For a award booking with United Miles, would the following be allowed as one round trip?
Day 01: IAH-PEK
stop-over in "China"
Day 05: HKG-SIN
final destination in SIN
Day 10: SIN-IAH
So SIN would be the final destination and "China" (PEK & HKG) would be the stop-over "destination".
If this is not allowed, any other ideas how to book such a trip efficiently?
Obviously, I would have to book a separate flight to get from PEK to HKG.
Day 01: IAH-PEK
stop-over in "China"
Day 05: HKG-SIN
final destination in SIN
Day 10: SIN-IAH
So SIN would be the final destination and "China" (PEK & HKG) would be the stop-over "destination".
If this is not allowed, any other ideas how to book such a trip efficiently?
Obviously, I would have to book a separate flight to get from PEK to HKG.
Jan 2, 2014, 8:56 pm
#27
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,416
For a award booking with United Miles, would the following be allowed as one round trip?
Day 01: IAH-PEK
stop-over in "China"
Day 05: HKG-SIN
final destination in SIN
Day 10: SIN-IAH
So SIN would be the final destination and "China" (PEK & HKG) would be the stop-over "destination".
If this is not allowed, any other ideas how to book such a trip efficiently?
Obviously, I would have to book a separate flight to get from PEK to HKG.
Day 01: IAH-PEK
stop-over in "China"
Day 05: HKG-SIN
final destination in SIN
Day 10: SIN-IAH
So SIN would be the final destination and "China" (PEK & HKG) would be the stop-over "destination".
If this is not allowed, any other ideas how to book such a trip efficiently?
Obviously, I would have to book a separate flight to get from PEK to HKG.
Last edited by Kacee; Jan 2, 2014 at 9:05 pm
Jan 2, 2014, 8:58 pm
#28
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
That would be one too many stops for the trip (SIN, PEK, HKG).
Historically an open-jaw has been permissible at the stopover point, but doing it across regions may cause troubles and, thanks to UA's recent policy of just making crap up and not actually publishing the rules, it is hard to say with authority that it definitely is or is not valid. Certainly worth trying though.
Historically an open-jaw has been permissible at the stopover point, but doing it across regions may cause troubles and, thanks to UA's recent policy of just making crap up and not actually publishing the rules, it is hard to say with authority that it definitely is or is not valid. Certainly worth trying though.
Jan 2, 2014, 9:00 pm
#29
Join Date: Jan 2011
Programs: All opinions/interpretations expressed here are my own and are not officially sanctioned by UA
Posts: 352
For a award booking with United Miles, would the following be allowed as one round trip?
Day 01: IAH-PEK
stop-over in "China"
Day 05: HKG-SIN
final destination in SIN
Day 10: SIN-IAH
So SIN would be the final destination and "China" (PEK & HKG) would be the stop-over "destination".
If this is not allowed, any other ideas how to book such a trip efficiently?
Obviously, I would have to book a separate flight to get from PEK to HKG.
Day 01: IAH-PEK
stop-over in "China"
Day 05: HKG-SIN
final destination in SIN
Day 10: SIN-IAH
So SIN would be the final destination and "China" (PEK & HKG) would be the stop-over "destination".
If this is not allowed, any other ideas how to book such a trip efficiently?
Obviously, I would have to book a separate flight to get from PEK to HKG.
Jan 2, 2014, 9:08 pm
#30
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: IAH
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, SPG Platinum, Hilton Diamond, A3 Gold
Posts: 601
Excellent idea! I will try it (even though geographically that makes no sense).