Mar 6, 2015, 4:46 pm
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
Common issue
Expert Mode shows ..... T9, L9, K9, G9, N9 but you not able to get united.com or other sites to provide a fare for N or G or .... WHY?
There are three requirements to be able to book a fare class
1) there needs to be a fare rule for that fare class for your O/D.
2) you need to meet all the requirements for the fare rule -- advance purchase, days of the week, min stay, qualified flight numbers, qualified routing (including a possible RT requirement), .....
3) there needs to be inventory in the fare class
So if the cheapest fare rule filed is K, you will not be able to book N or G
Even if a fare rule is filed and there is inventory then you still need to meet the fare rule requirements.
As for searching, if multiple fares qualify, the cheapest will be displayed unless you specifically force a fare class. While the fare hierarchy will generally match the cost, occasionally a high fare class will be cheaper than a lower fare class due to differences in fare flexibility such as refundable, changeability, ....
So there are multiple reasons for why a specific fare class is and not is offered. Confusion on this is one reason UA has been reluctant to make fare class inventory easily available and the reason UA requires one to accept the following terms before providing access to Expert Mode:
How can you see the fare rules?
While booking (on the first "Review trip itin" page) and after booking (on the online view of the reservation) , UA will makes them available -- but this is only if UA will display that particular fare.
Before booking or if unable to get access on UA, there are paid services -- KVS, Expert Flyer. ... can provide access to all published fare rules.
Related threads
Decoding the alphabet soup - New fare buckets for UA
How to get a P class fare to Europe?
Understanding Airline Inventory (non FT blog posting)
Desired Fare Class is available but has insufficient space, what can be done?
Archive: Fare Class has Inventory - Not Able to Book into? {Archive]
Expert Mode shows ..... T9, L9, K9, G9, N9 but you not able to get united.com or other sites to provide a fare for N or G or .... WHY?
There are three requirements to be able to book a fare class
1) there needs to be a fare rule for that fare class for your O/D.
2) you need to meet all the requirements for the fare rule -- advance purchase, days of the week, min stay, qualified flight numbers, qualified routing (including a possible RT requirement), .....
3) there needs to be inventory in the fare class
So if the cheapest fare rule filed is K, you will not be able to book N or G
Even if a fare rule is filed and there is inventory then you still need to meet the fare rule requirements.
As for searching, if multiple fares qualify, the cheapest will be displayed unless you specifically force a fare class. While the fare hierarchy will generally match the cost, occasionally a high fare class will be cheaper than a lower fare class due to differences in fare flexibility such as refundable, changeability, ....
So there are multiple reasons for why a specific fare class is and not is offered. Confusion on this is one reason UA has been reluctant to make fare class inventory easily available and the reason UA requires one to accept the following terms before providing access to Expert Mode:
This is not a forecasting tool. Availability levels in certain fare classes should not be interpreted as indicating that we will make other fare classes available.
The presence of a particular fare class does not mean that there is a fare associated with it. For example, we may offer availability in a discounted fare class, but that does not necessarily mean we have published a fare that corresponds to it.
The presence of a particular fare class does not mean that there is a fare associated with it. For example, we may offer availability in a discounted fare class, but that does not necessarily mean we have published a fare that corresponds to it.
While booking (on the first "Review trip itin" page) and after booking (on the online view of the reservation) , UA will makes them available -- but this is only if UA will display that particular fare.
Before booking or if unable to get access on UA, there are paid services -- KVS, Expert Flyer. ... can provide access to all published fare rules.
Related threads
Decoding the alphabet soup - New fare buckets for UA
How to get a P class fare to Europe?
Understanding Airline Inventory (non FT blog posting)
Desired Fare Class is available but has insufficient space, what can be done?
Archive: Fare Class has Inventory - Not Able to Book into? {Archive]
Fare Class has Inventory - Not Able to Book into?
Jan 17, 2022, 6:21 am
#46
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 1,115
- the availability is there, but UA's search engine did not find it
- Google finding inventory that is not valid for the itinerary (e.g., as a result of not applying fare rules or marrying logic correctly). There have been reports of UA.com only validating the vendor construction - and subsequently, erroring out - after submitting payment information.
Jun 9, 2022, 5:53 am
#47
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: United currently plat
Posts: 203
Fare class available but cannot book into (?)
Aloha all, Iʻm stumped. I booked HNL-SFO-AMS and back this summer 7/11 out and 8/4 return. Iʻm not even visiting Amsterdam, it was just great P fare Polaris so i grabbed it. After reading about the Schiphol meltdowns iʻm trying to look into other options for my return flight, in lieu of buying a KLM city hopper into AMS on the morning of my return flight and getting stuck.
Iʻm looking at leaving from Berlin, where Iʻll be at the end of trip. In ʻflight changeʻ I plug in BER-HNL on 8/3 and a routing shows up: BER-FRA-LAX-HNL with P fare class available, however itʻs offering me a Z fare for $575 extra. I tried to call in and the CSR was patient with me, but also kept getting the Z fare. He tried to manually choose the flights i was looking at, confirming he saw P but couldn't book them for me.
Anyone have a clue as to why i canʻt make that work? If I try to price it as a whole new ticket itʻs way more than what I paid.
Iʻm gonna keep monitoring it and see if they open it up between now and then but iʻm frustrated..
Iʻm looking at leaving from Berlin, where Iʻll be at the end of trip. In ʻflight changeʻ I plug in BER-HNL on 8/3 and a routing shows up: BER-FRA-LAX-HNL with P fare class available, however itʻs offering me a Z fare for $575 extra. I tried to call in and the CSR was patient with me, but also kept getting the Z fare. He tried to manually choose the flights i was looking at, confirming he saw P but couldn't book them for me.
Anyone have a clue as to why i canʻt make that work? If I try to price it as a whole new ticket itʻs way more than what I paid.
Iʻm gonna keep monitoring it and see if they open it up between now and then but iʻm frustrated..
Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jun 9, 2022 at 12:02 pm Reason: moved to master thread
Jun 9, 2022, 6:44 am
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 11,458
Aloha all, Iʻm stumped. I booked HNL-SFO-AMS and back this summer 7/11 out and 8/4 return. Iʻm not even visiting Amsterdam, it was just great P fare Polaris so i grabbed it. After reading about the Schiphol meltdowns iʻm trying to look into other options for my return flight, in lieu of buying a KLM city hopper into AMS on the morning of my return flight and getting stuck.
Iʻm looking at leaving from Berlin, where Iʻll be at the end of trip. In ʻflight changeʻ I plug in BER-HNL on 8/3 and a routing shows up: BER-FRA-LAX-HNL with P fare class available, however itʻs offering me a Z fare for $575 extra. I tried to call in and the CSR was patient with me, but also kept getting the Z fare. He tried to manually choose the flights i was looking at, confirming he saw P but couldn't book them for me.
Anyone have a clue as to why i canʻt make that work? If I try to price it as a whole new ticket itʻs way more than what I paid.
Iʻm gonna keep monitoring it and see if they open it up between now and then but iʻm frustrated..
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Iʻm looking at leaving from Berlin, where Iʻll be at the end of trip. In ʻflight changeʻ I plug in BER-HNL on 8/3 and a routing shows up: BER-FRA-LAX-HNL with P fare class available, however itʻs offering me a Z fare for $575 extra. I tried to call in and the CSR was patient with me, but also kept getting the Z fare. He tried to manually choose the flights i was looking at, confirming he saw P but couldn't book them for me.
Anyone have a clue as to why i canʻt make that work? If I try to price it as a whole new ticket itʻs way more than what I paid.
Iʻm gonna keep monitoring it and see if they open it up between now and then but iʻm frustrated..
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Last edited by WineCountryUA; Jun 9, 2022 at 12:02 pm Reason: cleanup after merge
Jun 9, 2022, 8:21 am
#50
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,386
Agreed.
OP: When did you purchase your flight? The HNL-BER P fares appear to have a 90-day advance purchase requirement. Although the text on the HNL-AMS fare does appear to allow the use of historical fares, you still would have had to make your purchase at least 90 days prior to your return date or you wouldn't be able to use the HNL-BER P fare that you need. (There are some HNL-AMS P fares with a 50-day AP requirement; is it possible that you purchased it between 50-90 days prior to your return?)
Jun 9, 2022, 12:04 pm
#51
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,821
To summarize what others are saying
You need all three and in particular you need to meet the fare rules for the fare you want. Inventory is not sufficent
Originally Posted by wiki
There are three requirements to be able to book a fare class
1) there needs to be a fare rule for that fare class for your O/D.
2) you need to meet all the requirements for the fare rule -- advance purchase, days of the week, min stay, qualified flight numbers, qualified routing (including a possible RT requirement), .....
3) there needs to be inventory in the fare class
1) there needs to be a fare rule for that fare class for your O/D.
2) you need to meet all the requirements for the fare rule -- advance purchase, days of the week, min stay, qualified flight numbers, qualified routing (including a possible RT requirement), .....
3) there needs to be inventory in the fare class
Jun 10, 2022, 12:52 am
#52
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: United currently plat
Posts: 203
Actually, in this case, OP needs an HNL-BER fare. Unlike most domestic fares, international fares are generally not symmetric, and the origin city you use depends upon where the trip starts.
Agreed.
OP: When did you purchase your flight? The HNL-BER P fares appear to have a 90-day advance purchase requirement. Although the text on the HNL-AMS fare does appear to allow the use of historical fares, you still would have had to make your purchase at least 90 days prior to your return date or you wouldn't be able to use the HNL-BER P fare that you need. (There are some HNL-AMS P fares with a 50-day AP requirement; is it possible that you purchased it between 50-90 days prior to your return?)
Agreed.
OP: When did you purchase your flight? The HNL-BER P fares appear to have a 90-day advance purchase requirement. Although the text on the HNL-AMS fare does appear to allow the use of historical fares, you still would have had to make your purchase at least 90 days prior to your return date or you wouldn't be able to use the HNL-BER P fare that you need. (There are some HNL-AMS P fares with a 50-day AP requirement; is it possible that you purchased it between 50-90 days prior to your return?)
Thanks all, i originally purchased my ticket on 4/28/22 BUT and itʻs a big but.. Iʻve changed the ticket maaaaannny times since the original ticket was issued. My OG routing was 7/11 HNL-SFO-EWR-CDG return DUB-LHR-SFO-HNL with the long haul segments in R and A fares respectively for $1800. Long story kina short. By 5/21/22 I ended up with HNL<->AMS round trip in P for $3,100, lucky me. I figured i had already pledged $850 in co-pay so what the hell.
Anyway, thanks for clearing it up, if only the CSR could explain the way yʻall do. I always appreciate the sharing of knowledge on this forum, always. Mahalo.
Jun 10, 2022, 2:04 am
#53
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,386
Thanks WineCountryUA for moving my post to where it belongs, your efforts are appreciated.
Thanks all, i originally purchased my ticket on 4/28/22 BUT and itʻs a big but.. Iʻve changed the ticket maaaaannny times since the original ticket was issued. My OG routing was 7/11 HNL-SFO-EWR-CDG return DUB-LHR-SFO-HNL with the long haul segments in R and A fares respectively for $1800. Long story kina short. By 5/21/22 I ended up with HNL<->AMS round trip in P for $3,100, lucky me. I figured i had already pledged $850 in co-pay so what the hell.
Anyway, thanks for clearing it up, if only the CSR could explain the way yʻall do. I always appreciate the sharing of knowledge on this forum, always. Mahalo.
Thanks all, i originally purchased my ticket on 4/28/22 BUT and itʻs a big but.. Iʻve changed the ticket maaaaannny times since the original ticket was issued. My OG routing was 7/11 HNL-SFO-EWR-CDG return DUB-LHR-SFO-HNL with the long haul segments in R and A fares respectively for $1800. Long story kina short. By 5/21/22 I ended up with HNL<->AMS round trip in P for $3,100, lucky me. I figured i had already pledged $850 in co-pay so what the hell.
Anyway, thanks for clearing it up, if only the CSR could explain the way yʻall do. I always appreciate the sharing of knowledge on this forum, always. Mahalo.
I hope that things will clear in up AMS. However, if your AMS flight seems to be a mess, you might check for J availability from BRU. If you can convince the agent that it's an IRROPS situation, BRU is close enough to AMS (98 miles) that UA policy would allow you to be moved. (Of course, if the flight's operating on time, and the only issue is a 3-hour wait at security, the agent may be unwilling, but you could try). Of course, then you need to get to Brussels, but since it seems like you're already planning a train trip, that might be the most palatable. Otherwise, I'm afraid you'd need to buy up to the Z fare.
Jun 10, 2022, 2:30 pm
#54
Join Date: May 2017
Programs: United currently plat
Posts: 203
OK, that explains the situation then. For fare calculation purposes, the ticketing date would be 5/21, because you changed from an R to a P fare on that date. On 5/21, you were 74 days prior to your return trip: you met the 50 day AP for the HNL-AMS P fare, but not the 90 days for the HNL-BER P fare. It sounds like the UA system is working as designed and showing you the fares that you would have received if you'd tried to book HNL-AMS / BER-HNL on 5/21.
I hope that things will clear in up AMS. However, if your AMS flight seems to be a mess, you might check for J availability from BRU. If you can convince the agent that it's an IRROPS situation, BRU is close enough to AMS (98 miles) that UA policy would allow you to be moved. (Of course, if the flight's operating on time, and the only issue is a 3-hour wait at security, the agent may be unwilling, but you could try). Of course, then you need to get to Brussels, but since it seems like you're already planning a train trip, that might be the most palatable. Otherwise, I'm afraid you'd need to buy up to the Z fare.
I hope that things will clear in up AMS. However, if your AMS flight seems to be a mess, you might check for J availability from BRU. If you can convince the agent that it's an IRROPS situation, BRU is close enough to AMS (98 miles) that UA policy would allow you to be moved. (Of course, if the flight's operating on time, and the only issue is a 3-hour wait at security, the agent may be unwilling, but you could try). Of course, then you need to get to Brussels, but since it seems like you're already planning a train trip, that might be the most palatable. Otherwise, I'm afraid you'd need to buy up to the Z fare.
Jun 10, 2022, 3:29 pm
#55
Join Date: Nov 2014
Programs: UA 2MM
Posts: 1,679
Mahalo plenty. Interesting on the BRU idea, train options are similar to Berlin to AMS. I'll probably end up getting a KLM flight and if seems at all dicey, i'll take an overnight train to Schiphol instead. If I wait too long to get that KLM leg it'l probably get close to $575 fare anyway
Jun 24, 2022, 11:29 am
#56
Join Date: Feb 2017
Programs: United Mileage Plus
Posts: 86
UA Fare Class sold on website vs Avaliability
Hello forum friends. Please feel free to move this if a more relevant thread already exists. I am booking a flight EWR - CVG for next week and it looks like almost all fare classes are available. However when I look to select on the website I am being sold a U fare, as opposed to something that is typically more discounted. Is this normal when you are less than a week to the flight? Should I be calling UA customer service instead? Added screenshot below for more context.
Jun 24, 2022, 11:38 am
#57
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,446
There is no point in calling. U is what they're selling for your travel dates; if you want to fly UA, that's your fare! Welcome to UA fortress hub EWR.
Note that with X and XN available, this could be a good use of miles.
Jul 31, 2022, 4:19 pm
#58
Join Date: Jul 2022
Programs: United MileagePlus
Posts: 336
Hi guys - wanted to bring this up again. Looking to visit LHR from EWR 10/26-11/3. This 7-night stay last week was pricing out in P, and now it's in Z. I understand it's about 87 days away at time of writing, so perhaps that's why P is unable to be booked. I saw jsloan mention that theoretical P fares exist for AP of 50 days (AMS-HNL), I'm just trying to figure out how I can find out if those might also exist for these sets of flights. I understand the price is the price if my airports and dates are inflexible. I guess at this point i'm trying to understand how this happens so I can work to prevent a price increase of ~$1200 in the future. Thanks!
Jul 31, 2022, 4:39 pm
#59
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Austin, TX
Posts: 21,386
Hi guys - wanted to bring this up again. Looking to visit LHR from EWR 10/26-11/3. This 7-night stay last week was pricing out in P, and now it's in Z. I understand it's about 87 days away at time of writing, so perhaps that's why P is unable to be booked. I saw jsloan mention that theoretical P fares exist for AP of 50 days (AMS-HNL), I'm just trying to figure out how I can find out if those might also exist for these sets of flights. I understand the price is the price if my airports and dates are inflexible. I guess at this point i'm trying to understand how this happens so I can work to prevent a price increase of ~$1200 in the future. Thanks!
The long answer: I'm not aware of any free tool that can do this. However, ExpertFlyer can do it.
To start with, I can use ExpertFlyer with those dates and Validate Fares checked, and it shows me that the cheapest available business class fare for those cities and dates is a Z fare. If I deactivate Validate Fares, it then shows a number of P fares, most (but not all) of which are showing 90 day advance purchase requirements.
To get a further picture, I can enter a ticketing date. If I enter a ticketing date of last Monday (7/25), I see that P fares appear with a 90-day advance purchase... along with another P fare with a 50-day advance purchase. However... that fare expired on Thursday 7/28.
Therefore, in this particular case, you were bitten by two things -- you passed the 90-day advance purchase window, and UA pulled the P fare for the 50-day advance purchase window. (The 50 day AP fare was only about $200 cheaper, but it's better than nothing).
Jul 31, 2022, 5:00 pm
#60
Join Date: Jul 2022
Programs: United MileagePlus
Posts: 336
The short answer is "yes," there is a 90-day discount P fare available for those dates.
The long answer: I'm not aware of any free tool that can do this. However, ExpertFlyer can do it.
To start with, I can use ExpertFlyer with those dates and Validate Fares checked, and it shows me that the cheapest available business class fare for those cities and dates is a Z fare. If I deactivate Validate Fares, it then shows a number of P fares, most (but not all) of which are showing 90 day advance purchase requirements.
To get a further picture, I can enter a ticketing date. If I enter a ticketing date of last Monday (7/25), I see that P fares appear with a 90-day advance purchase... along with another P fare with a 50-day advance purchase. However... that fare expired on Thursday 7/28.
Therefore, in this particular case, you were bitten by two things -- you passed the 90-day advance purchase window, and UA pulled the P fare for the 50-day advance purchase window. (The 50 day AP fare was only about $200 cheaper, but it's better than nothing).
The long answer: I'm not aware of any free tool that can do this. However, ExpertFlyer can do it.
To start with, I can use ExpertFlyer with those dates and Validate Fares checked, and it shows me that the cheapest available business class fare for those cities and dates is a Z fare. If I deactivate Validate Fares, it then shows a number of P fares, most (but not all) of which are showing 90 day advance purchase requirements.
To get a further picture, I can enter a ticketing date. If I enter a ticketing date of last Monday (7/25), I see that P fares appear with a 90-day advance purchase... along with another P fare with a 50-day advance purchase. However... that fare expired on Thursday 7/28.
Therefore, in this particular case, you were bitten by two things -- you passed the 90-day advance purchase window, and UA pulled the P fare for the 50-day advance purchase window. (The 50 day AP fare was only about $200 cheaper, but it's better than nothing).