CMK10

Point out whatever you want, just know that I already pointed it out yesterday:

eghansen

Sorry, but the airlines don't value anybody - and that includes you.

If you spend $100,000 per year on travel exclusively on UA metal, then you represent 0.0002592% of United's total annual revenue.

To look at it another way, it costs United about $120,000 in jet fuel to fly a Boeing 777 from LAX-SYD. So if you are spending $100,000 per year on airline tickets, that is not even enough money to fuel one one-way flight from LAX-SYD.

As for the pax who flies 2 transcons per year, they matter hugely to the airlines because there are millions of them. 1 million people making 2 transcons per year at a cost of $600 per RT ticket totals $1.2 billion. Lose enough of them and you are in trouble.

The airline business is like the movie business, McDonalds or Walmart. A tiny number of high-flyers like you count for nothing. The money is in the millions of people who fly two or three times per year.

Superguy

And only those finding other people willing to fly them around in F.

My refundable domestic Y fares net 30-40 cpm on a good trip.

skidooman

No. That was in reaction to the guy dissing Aeroflot (you?). That guy must not have known about the changes that happened in the last, oh, 10 years?

But let us say that before, I would go out of my way to fly UA. For the miles. For the status.

Now? It is still my home airline. Just less. What keeps me there are the upgrades. E+? Not competitive with a real premium economy program. Miles? The incentive is just less there with the devaluation, and now the spent calculation (I fly mostly Y to Asia, so I am taking a 40% hit).

I used to think PQD would be a problem, but it is not in my case, because prices went up significantly in the last few years. But even without PQD, I just see less and less reasons to fly United.

In other words, what I am seeing is that the airline chips away the reasons I have to fly them. Competitors won't stay still, so eventually they may chip a bit too much. They should consider enhancing their products and incentive also. Will they do it?

Or, perhaps > $20K in spend is just not good business for them. Who knows?

pphan

This tells me that UA doesn't really care about its FF (perhaps, except for Global Services). I used to be DL Dia and moved to UA 1K because DL screwed up its merger with NW (cancelled flights, delays, re-routes, etc.) Now I'm thinking that DL is the less ugly of the 2. Can anyone recommend a *good* loyalty program? I fly enough that any of the 3 alliances will work for me.

Boghopper

At the moment it looks like AA (or AS if that can work for you). But I get the sense that once the dust settles on their merger they will start keeping up with (or behind, or whatever) the Joneses.

bldr1k

The behavior of all the airlines certainly supports what you are saying above but it is hard to believe it could be true. If 1 million people all flew twice a year at 10 cents per mile the airlines would consistently lose money. However, if they can attract 100,000 fliers who spend 30 cents per mile, that generates a 50% profit margin and allows them to keep the airplanes full with the 10 cent per mile fliers.

I spend about $50K per year and average around 25 cents per mile, producing a very healthy profit for United. Unfortunately you are right, they don't seem to give a crap if I stay or go.

UA1kMarriottHertzPlat

I think the guys who equate 100K spend on UA as a percentage of total UA revenue being zillionth decimal and therefore not valuable to UA (as an example of an airline) are wrong. By UA's own admission these are the most important segment of UA's customer base (that UA alienates this group frequently is an execution issue rather than strategy issue meaning they want to treat 100K spending guys - GS most likely better than most but can't help themselves from screwing up because of internal communication, systems, training and general apathy).

What is important is the Total Life Value of a Customer which is a complex marketing topic - essentially, out of n customers who travel on an airline only 20% or 0.2n are frequent flyers of higher order i.e. Platinum (or 1K), Diamond and Exec Plat on UA, Delta and AA respectively. Now these 0.2n contribute together as a segment disproportionate percentage in some cases as much as 55% of an airline's profits off paying passengers - remember when UA filed for bankruptcy in 2002 the only profitable line was their FF Program i.e. MileagePlus.

So in summary all marketing programs including loyalty programs are predicted to achieve only 45% success meaning an airline can expect to classify (and therefore treat differentially if not deferentially) it's top 20% customer base. So they screw up 55% of the times!! However though we (as a group 1K, exec Plat, Diamond etc) are very important to an airline's future (excluding Discount Airlines) but don't expect them to turn a new leaf because by definition they screw up 55% of the times.

Sez_Who

Wow, 8 yrs on FT before your first post. ^

If your measuring stick for a *good* FF program is maximizing RDM’s on low airfares, there is nowhere to hide unless you want to spend a year over at AA. That’s the point that all the airlines are making. Want more miles, spend more money. Fly cheap airfares, get fewer miles.

As for the ‘less ugly’ airline, I am a DL Diamond and my wife is a UA 1k. Both of us have things we really like about our respective airlines, and things we don’t like. That’s the way it is with all airlines. Find what works best for you, hold your nose, and accept that you are flying what you believe is the lesser of the evils.

GeorgeJ

I would have been screwed with UA for 2015 had I not made Million Miler earlier in 2014.

After taxes were deducted from my fares this year with UA I didn't even hit Silver...30,013 miles and $2448 in PQD. The past eight years I have been Premier Gold and the year before that 1K Lite. I did cut down on paid United flights in 2014 (and continued to take some on US after they left Star Alliance) using miles for several roundtrips this year.

Depending upon how close I come to Million Miler on AA after they merge my US BIS miles, it's likely I will give AA most of my business until I hit the 1,000,000 mark with them and then split it between AA & UA. If I were getting many domestic upgrades with UA, I'd give them all my business -- but I'm not. I probably get upgraded 10% of the time. Which is what I predicted back several years ago when UA went to the complementary domestic upgrades -- Golds don't get diddly under that system. The only time I'm likely to get an upgrade is between LAS & IAH.

MileageManager

Which reminds me of this old post:
http://thetransittourist.blogspot.co...ategy-for.html

chavala

same goes for me and my AA Explat spouse. Both have their pros and cons -- we agree neither is better or worse. -- although with the changes coming to AA's program next year I think I will come out the winner

Madone59

Welcome to Flyertalk.....?

What is your travel pattern like? I moved from UA 1K to AS two years ago and am now thinking of going back to UA. When AS was crediting 100% DL, AA, BA the sky was 'our' playground. Now that RDM/EQM are awarded from 0-100% based off the fare code a lot has changed. AS does not have the network to support most travelers exclusively so some partner flying is a must; so what is your travel like?

What I am looking for now is 100% EQM. I can deal with losing most of my RDM, especially by giving up the 125% AS elite bonus, if I can just clear my status consistently. With UA I can fly 75K BIS, spend $25K on their credit card (mostly MS) and be platinum. My biggest fear is how the new "basic economy" product will impact this plan. If UA Makes N, G domestic fares basic and international K fares basic that may be the ballgame because most of my travel is discount economy.