mgcsinc

This thread is intended to break out the discussion from this thread regarding domestic layovers (not stopovers) longer than four hours. Hopefully the mods won't kill me for taking it upon myself to start this separate thread -- I thought I'd save them some work.

The basic question is this: Under what circumstances, on a fully-domestic itinerary, can a stop longer than four hours be treated as a layover and not cause a fare break?

Here's how the discussion went down up this point: The thread was about trying to include an overnight non-stopover layover on an NYC-LAX-OGG award ticket. I made a comment about how UA obnoxiously doesn't permit overnight layovers over four hours on that route. Channa said "Any domestic connection over 4 hours is a stopover." I flippantly said that that wasn't true when the layover was an overnight onto the first available flight, although that was based largely on what I'd read about layovers on the internet rather than a good read of the "rules." Channa disagreed and aacharya backed him up. I noted that I'd seen fares price out that way many times, and channa noted that website errors (including ones in our favor) do not a policy make. Desperate to find someone with more than a couple hundred posts who agreed with me, I pointed to exerda's comment on this thread.

Mherdeg then swooped in with some rules! From the UA Contract of Carriage:

I took this as a pretty good sign that I was right, but mherdeg pointed out that the fact that it's in the rules doesn't mean you'll actually be able to get anyone to follow the rule and ticket it for you. I said that I think you might if you called, referenced the CoC, and asked for the rate desk to deal with it.

So that's where it left off. I personally think that, if this is a real rule, it could be extremely helpful to know and be able to reference. There are a number of times when I could not get United.com/.bomb/.sux (choose your flavor ) to give me a single fare when it should have under this rule, and I would have much rather had those itineraries.

So, discuss away. Have you had any success getting agents to issue you tickets under this rule? Is there something I'm missing? Etc etc etc?

todorovic

Although I never book these kinds of fares (hate long layovers, even when spent in a hotel room), let me offer my opinion on what the next available flight means. This question was specifically asked by the OP in the above referenced thread. IMO the first flight with any seat open will count as the first available flight - doesn't have to be in your desired cabin. You may be finding all G fares up to your layover (forced kind-of-a-stopover) point but then the first available flight may only have F available. If there are no other flights with coach availability within 4 hours on a domestic itinerary you will have to book the F fare (at most likely very high price) or not be able to fly on your desired flights with G fares.

craz

Are you inferring that if a person flys NYC-LAX on a Sun and all of Mon and Tues flights are soldout and the 1st available flightis on Weds in Y a G fare.That UA will allow a 3 day layover w/o braking teh fare.Maybe if the fare rules of that tkt allows it but I highly doubt that that will be the case

Yrs ago with AA going NYC-KOA we overnighted @ LAX.We then decided to change our return and stay the weekend in LA, AA shut us down as we already had our 1 Stopover, the rep did say had we taken a flight out from NY that landed after the last KOA flight left LAX then our night @ LAX would not have counted as our Stopover, but did insist we would have to be on the 1st KOA flight the next day which we didnt want too early

hobo13

There are probably ways of getting this done. But I doubt that it is policy and I doubt that explicitly asking for it will work.

todorovic

Quite the opposite - you'd be forced to buy the combo/mixed cabin fare unless you actually have a stopover, in which case you can wait a few days for the G fare.

mgcsinc

I didn't really mean to get too far on the "what is the definition of available" tangent, although I will note that the clear language of the CoC permits you at least to wait for the following flight with full-fare economy availability.

What I'm most interested in is the classic situation -- arriving at night, after the last flight out, and taking the first flight in the morning. What has the experience been with getting the rule to work (not on the internet, not with a plain-vanilla making-up-rules agent, but with the rate desk or a TA) for those situations?

Assuming you're talking about the policy in general, I think it strains credulity to think that something in the CoC is not 'policy'.

The plain language of the CoC seems to disagree.

hobo13

Why not just call up and try to book it? Even if you aren't a 1K, you can cancel within 24 hours. I bet you try 10 times and get 0 successes. If you want to prove me wrong, I'd love to see it. Just take a screen shot of your reservation before you cancel it. (just black out the pertinent stuff)

mgcsinc

I will, when I have the time and the patience

That said, I'm curious what hook you think the agents would have to hang their hats on? The CoC, the master operating agreement between the airline and its customers, is unambiguous on this point.

hobo13

They will hang their hat on the auto-pricing computer. No other reason will be given. (My prediction.)

It really doesn't take that long.... you probably could have made 3 calls in the time we've been debating this!

mgcsinc

The rate desk doesn't just use the auto-pricing computer -- they seem to actually work things out manually.

I'm working on putting together an itinerary to try this with right now

The thing that I find so weird about this issue, which is really true of a lot of things on this forum (see, for example, the split PNR thread!) is that some people will swear up and down that one thing is true (e.g., that a domestic layover is only legal under 4 hours), and others will swear just as vigorously that the next-flight rule applies.

why fly

thanks I am going to try to get 5000 miles back on an award ticket.

ChicagoDave

I haven't tried this domestically, but I've been able to do the 24 hour connection on international flights. ORD-IAH-EWR (23 hr connection) - IST. My friend booked an award ticket and was able to book ORD-MUC (23 hr connection) - AMS. Neither could be booked online, but a call to United and a friendly agent was able to book it on the first attempt. Both agents waived the agent fee since it couldn't be booked online.

craz

Well if the person who said its the next available flight that decides things no matter the cabin and the next fight that isnt soldout is 3 days later and a G fare as the rest of their segments are, then it should price out as whatever a reg G fare is

Id think if the next flight was 3 days away even in the same fare basis the computer will sell it not as 1 tkt but as 2 a NY-LAX & LAX-OGG. I do believe if the NY-LAX was a G and when they get into LAX theres no flight to OGG till the next morn , then the fare will be the same as if they were connecting onwards once they got to LAX. I think if you book via a Multi-City and chose the 2nd flight out the day (if there is 1) that the fare will be broken since you arent making the 1st possible connection out

Xyzzy

I've done both the 23 hour connection thing (most recently 23:20 in BKK) and the overnight/first AM flight domestic connection (most notably EWR-TPA-overnight-TPA-IAH-OAK way back when). The web site may nt autoprice all of these, but I've found that it usually does if you select the pertinent segments with the multiple destination page.

mgcsinc

Well, I'm not going to lie and say it was easy. Waited for three supervisors to deal with it, two at the rate desk and one agent supervisor. The latter actually sat and read through the CoC, said yup, you're right, and gave me the rate.

EWR-LAX-nighttime-LAX-SEA $186, priced as a single fare, down from $299 priced separately.

If you really, really don't believe me, I'll take a screenshot, but seems like a bit of a rigmarole.