No TATL RN availability during June!

Old Feb 17, 2013, 4:20 pm
  #1  
txp
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No TATL RN availability during June!

Hi everyone,

I am planning a three-day trip to Brussels in June. BRU is well served by non-stop quality trains directly from the airports in AMS, FRA, and CDG. Given this, I have a number of permutations available to travel from IAH to BRU. Some involve flying directly to BRU from the east coast (with a connecting flight from IAH to the either EWR or IAD). Others involve flying into AMS, FRA or CDG either on a non-stop from IAH or on a connecting flight, and then continuing by train to BRU.

I have researched on EF dozens of city pairs between US and EU during June, corresponding to all possible permutations. Surprisingly, I have not found a single flight with RN availability.

Does anyone know if/when UA opens RN availability for the TATL flights? Or will I be stuck with a choice between coach and a $6,000 fare in BF?

Do I have better luck getting a saver award ticket on LH?

Thanks!
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 4:27 pm
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They just had a huge TATL fare sale for around this time - lots of ~$1800 AI returns in BF. That might be depressing the availability...
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 4:29 pm
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Originally Posted by txp
Hi everyone,

I am planning a three-day trip to Brussels in June. BRU is well served by non-stop quality trains directly from the airports in AMS, FRA, and CDG. Given this, I have a number of permutations available to travel from IAH to BRU.

I have researched on EF dozens of city pairs between US and EU during June, corresponding to all possible permutations. Surprisingly, I have not found a single flight with RN availability.

Does anyone know if/when UA opens RN availability for the TATL flights? Or will I be stuck with a choice between coach and a $6,000 fare in BF?

Do I have better luck getting a saver award ticket on LH?

Thanks!
Book any of the other Saver awards available (partners) and WL for the IAH-EWR/IAD/ORD-BRU direct flight.

IAH-IST-BRU with a 3-hour layover at the TK lounge looks okay (June 19th outbound) as a start. Not the best arrival time, but you can hit a bar or two before bedtime.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 4:30 pm
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Originally Posted by scottish_colin
They just had a huge TATL fare sale for around this time - lots of ~$1800 AI returns in BF. That might be depressing the availability...
Did I miss this? I'be been looking for a few weeks at the mid-June time period. I see a few $3K fares in C on LH code shares, but that's it to FRA/MUC.
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 4:31 pm
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Originally Posted by scottish_colin
They just had a huge TATL fare sale for around this time - lots of ~$1800 AI returns in BF. That might be depressing the availability...
The sale requires 10 day minimum stay, unfortunately. It is still ongoing.

Originally Posted by dulcamara
Did I miss this? I'be been looking for a few weeks at the mid-June time period. I see a few $3K fares in C on LH code shares, but that's it to FRA/MUC.
I would be willing to pay $3K, but not $6K. What route is the $3K sale available on? Thanks!

Originally Posted by aacharya
Book any of the other Saver awards available (partners) and WL for the IAH-EWR/IAD/ORD-BRU direct flight.

IAH-IST-BRU with a 3-hour layover at the TK lounge looks okay (June 19th outbound) as a start. Not the best arrival time, but you can hit a bar or two before bedtime.
The IST connection is a great idea, thanks. I did not think about that route.

Can I waitlist for the IAH-EWR/IAD/ORD-BRU flights without buying a ticket?

LH has $3K fares for my period from EWR to FRA. Surprisingly, the fare out of IAH is $6K.

A paid ticket IAH-EWR with 30K miles for updgare plus the $3K fare is cheaper than the $6K fare. This is probably my fallback solution.

But why are they not opening any of the R inventory?!

Last edited by iluv2fly; Feb 17, 2013 at 5:50 pm Reason: merge
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Old Feb 17, 2013, 4:38 pm
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Originally Posted by txp
The IST connection is a great idea, thanks. I did not think about that route.

Can I waitlist for the IAH-EWR/IAD/ORD-BRU flights without buying a ticket?
If only. The only way to sort of do that is an EF alert EWR-BRU, IAD-BRU, and ORD-BRU.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 9:23 am
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Well, I did book my trip ... on AA.

The RN availability on UA was ridiculously low during my travel window: ZERO to be more precise. I tried all possible permutations between all gateways on the US side (IAH, DEN, ORD, IAD, EWR, JFK) and the the four airports that are connected to Bruxelles directly by train (AMS, CDG, FRA, BRU). Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Decent discount BF fares around $2,500 were available on UA, but they required 10 day minimum stay, or (in the case of still tolerable fares around $3,500), a Sunday stay. I could not meet these requirements so the only fares available for my travel dates were about $5K to $6K.

I then went to EF and within five minutes I found availability on AA from DFW to FRA, returning CDG-DFW. I hate to not be loyal to UA, but in this case I had no choice.

Apart from the inconvenience that I have to fly out of DFW on AA, I am most concerned with what appears to be a disturbing trend here -- all RN availability appears to be zeroed out on international flights.

Can anyone explain the wisdom of this new UA strategy of not releasing R inventory?
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 9:35 am
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I had hoped that availability would ease up after 31/1 because a) fewer miles were issued last year following the devaluation of Gold and Platinum and b) fewer 1Ks were around and earning GPUs after so many had, apparently, defected to AA.

But it seems that stories of mass defections have been somewhat exaggerated.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 9:44 am
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Originally Posted by dulcamara
Did I miss this? I'be been looking for a few weeks at the mid-June time period. I see a few $3K fares in C on LH code shares, but that's it to FRA/MUC.
+1

How does one find out about these fare sales?

And, why, if COdbaUA has an entire marketing team, have I never once received an email from COdbaUA, since the takeover, inviting me to participate in one of these sales?

Instead of something useful, like that, I get nothing but junk, junk, junk from them. Every few days. Another worthless offer to over-pay for crap from a partner.

Why are they trying to hard to sell me over-priced crap from every possible vendor on the planet, except, themselves?
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 9:47 am
  #10  
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Originally Posted by lhrsfo
I had hoped that availability would ease up after 31/1 because a) fewer miles were issued last year following the devaluation of Gold and Platinum and b) fewer 1Ks were around and earning GPUs after so many had, apparently, defected to AA.

But it seems that stories of mass defections have been somewhat exaggerated.
I think they are still tweaking with the business model -- finding that right balance between revenue and rewarding loyalty.

Perhaps PMUA had erred too much on the side of loyalty, but the new UA appears to err too much on the side of (perceived) revenue. The problem is that they perceived revenue may not materialize. My case is a perfect example, where my money went to AA. I was happy to burn 50K miles plus $700 in co-pays on the top of a high priced economy ticket ($2,000 without a Sunday stay). Instead, that money went to the competition.

Suggestion to UA --

Please do not antagonize your customers by zeroing out ALL of your R/RN inventory. You should release a few seats per flight. The two optimal times to do this are (a) 330 days out when the flight schedule opens and (b) 2-4 months out.

Originally Posted by mitchmu
+1

How does one find out about these fare sales?

And, why, if COdbaUA has an entire marketing team, have I never once received an email from COdbaUA, since the takeover, inviting me to participate in one of these sales?

Instead of something useful, like that, I get nothing but junk, junk, junk from them. Every few days. Another worthless offer to over-pay for crap from a partner.

Why are they trying to hard to sell me over-priced crap from every possible vendor on the planet, except, themselves?
I subscribe to First Class Flyer (FCF) http://www.firstclassflyer.com/first...lyer/newsroom/.

The author of that newsletter, Matt, does a good job at tracking these fares for his subscribers and issues first/business class fare alerts almost on a daily basis. I have been happy with that publication.

Incidentally, Matt @ FCF did change my perception about how to view loyalty programs. Matt believes that loyalty programs are no longer about rewarding loyalty. He taught me to view loyalty program miles as alternative currencies that I can use when purchasing a trip. Matt believes that premium flyers are better off if they chose an airline based on whoever offers the best possible deal for their specific trip rather than being "loyal" to their airline.

I have come to embrace Matt's philosophy over the years, and my recent booking on AA is a perfect example. I had 50K miles seating in my AA account and did not think twice about taking the AA deal to Europe even if it meant the difference between silver and gold in terms of my UA status.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Feb 24, 2013 at 12:14 pm Reason: merge
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 9:47 am
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Originally Posted by txp
I would be willing to pay $3K, but not $6K. What route is the $3K sale available on? Thanks!
I just farelocked 2 BF tickets on LHR-IAH mid July - early August for just over $3k/ticket.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 9:58 am
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VERY, VERY FEW in April also. I was looking all over for a trip to LHR, and only one possible flight from many airports.
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 10:12 am
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Originally Posted by txp
Well, I did book my trip ... on AA.

The RN availability on UA was ridiculously low during my travel window: ZERO to be more precise. I tried all possible permutations between all gateways on the US side (IAH, DEN, ORD, IAD, EWR, JFK) and the the four airports that are connected to Bruxelles directly by train (AMS, CDG, FRA, BRU). Nothing. Absolutely nothing.

Decent discount BF fares around $2,500 were available on UA, but they required 10 day minimum stay, or (in the case of still tolerable fares around $3,500), a Sunday stay. I could not meet these requirements so the only fares available for my travel dates were about $5K to $6K.

I then went to EF and within five minutes I found availability on AA from DFW to FRA, returning CDG-DFW. I hate to not be loyal to UA, but in this case I had no choice.

Apart from the inconvenience that I have to fly out of DFW on AA, I am most concerned with what appears to be a disturbing trend here -- all RN availability appears to be zeroed out on international flights.

Can anyone explain the wisdom of this new UA strategy of not releasing R inventory?
I don't understand why you think this is new.

First, CO eliminated RN availability when they took over. R=RN, which means there is no advantage to having status.

Second, I have been monitoring R space regularly since the takeover.

Before 3/3, what I found was that R space did not exist on any flight I checked if it was an sCO flight, but R space was normal on sUA flights.

Soon after 3/3, R space dropped a bit on sUA flights, and remained at zero for sCO flights.

About 2-3 months after 3/3, R space completely disappeared from sUA flights.

Comments above pertain to specific routes that I monitor, which include various flights from SFO to Europe and Asia.

This is nothing new. People are just starting to figure this out now?

Originally Posted by txp
I subscribe to First Class Flyer (FCF) http://www.firstclassflyer.com/first...lyer/newsroom/.

The author of that newsletter, Matt, does a good job at tracking these fares for his subscribers and issues first/business class fare alerts almost on a daily basis. I have been happy with that publication.

Incidentally, Matt @ FCF did change my perception about how to view loyalty programs. Matt believes that loyalty programs are no longer about rewarding loyalty. He taught me to view loyalty program miles as alternative currencies that I can use when purchasing a trip. Matt believes that premium flyers are better off if they chose an airline based on whoever offers the best possible deal for their specific trip rather than being "loyal" to their airline.

I have come to embrace Matt's philosophy over the years, and my recent booking on AA is a perfect example. I had 50K miles seating in my AA account and did not think twice about taking the AA deal to Europe even if it meant the difference between silver and gold in terms of my UA status.
This is very helpful. I'm going to look at his newsletter.

I'd ignored it in the past because I was 100% loyal to UA, so I didn't need to learn about premium travel opportunities on other carriers.

$mi$ek has broken that habit for me.

Thanks for sharing it.

One of the things I've realized through this process is that I spent more money than necessary to stick with UA and retain 1K status. By giving up on that, I can use the savings to fly a bit less, but pay more when I fly. And, if I can consistently get these $2000-3000 fares for long haul flights, I'll end up spending less overall that I spent to maintain 1K status with UA.

But, for this to work, I'll have to get up to speed on how to find these deals with other carriers.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Feb 24, 2013 at 12:15 pm Reason: merge
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 10:16 am
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Originally Posted by mitchmu
I don't understand why you think this is new.

First, CO eliminated RN availability when they took over. R=RN, which means there is no advantage to having status.

Second, I have been monitoring R space regularly since the takeover.

Before 3/3, what I found was that R space did not exist on any flight I checked if it was an sCO flight, but R space was normal on sUA flights.

Soon after 3/3, R space dropped a bit on sUA flights, and remained at zero for sCO flights.

About 2-3 months after 3/3, R space completely disappeared from sUA flights.

Comments above pertain to specific routes that I monitor, which include various flights from SFO to Europe and Asia.

This is nothing new. People are just starting to figure this out now?
I think you are correct. If this is part of UA's new business model, it will not work. They need to loosen up the R/RN availability.

And, to answer your question more directly, here is why I thought this was a new UA policy: back in July 2012 I booked four rt tkts to SYD with plenty of R/RN availability for the entire family. I was surprised to see so much availability given my experience with PMCO. Somehow, I thought that this was a "new UA" policy, a change I would like, but I understand now that it was the last vestige of PMUA policy that had not been yet taken away by the CO management. In fact, there is no more R/RN availability to Sydney now. I was able to buy the tkts before they shut the door!

Again, I believe this is a flawed business model.

Sadly, I am beginning to agree with others here who have argued that the new UA incorporated some of the worst aspects of each airline.

Originally Posted by mitchmu
This is very helpful. I'm going to look at his newsletter.

I'd ignored it in the past because I was 100% loyal to UA, so I didn't need to learn about premium travel opportunities on other carriers.

$mi$ek has broken that habit for me.

Thanks for sharing it.

One of the things I've realized through this process is that I spent more money than necessary to stick with UA and retain 1K status. By giving up on that, I can use the savings to fly a bit less, but pay more when I fly. And, if I can consistently get these $2000-3000 fares for long haul flights, I'll end up spending less overall that I spent to maintain 1K status with UA.

But, for this to work, I'll have to get up to speed on how to find these deals with other carriers.

I am in complete agreement. It took me a while to get educated on the premium travel market on other airlines, but now I find it liberating to not have to be loyal. Matt's newsletter should be of assistance to anyone who is willing to embrace the "free agent" philosophy when travelling in the premium cabins.


Speaking of "free agents," here is the BEST search engine I was able to find in order to uncover the best business class fares for international travel http://matrix.itasoftware.com/. It works very well, and I was amazed to see what type of bargains it uncovers.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Feb 24, 2013 at 12:16 pm Reason: merge
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Old Feb 24, 2013, 10:34 am
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Originally Posted by txp
I think you are correct. If this is part of UA's new business model, it will not work. They need to loosen up the R/RN availability.

And, to answer your question more directly, here is why I thought this was a new UA policy: back in July 2012 I booked four rt tkts to SYD with plenty of R/RN availability for the entire family. I was surprised to see so much availability given my experience with PMCO. Somehow, I thought that this was a "new UA" policy, a change I would like, but I understand now that it was the last vestige of PMUA policy that had not been yet taken away by the CO management. In fact, there is no more R/RN availability to Sydney now. I was able to buy the tkts before they shut the door!

Again, I believe this is a flawed business model.

Sadly, I am beginning to agree with others here who have argued that the new UA incorporated some of the worst aspects of each airline.
That makes sense. It's become much worse, month by month. I've seen the decline in R space rolling through the UA system. I have no idea how this works internally but my perception has been that R space is managed in different segments by different groups, and the CO team clamped down and eliminated R space in a rolling fashion, segment by segment after they were able to use SHARES to take control of it.

July is very low season to SYD, so that no doubt was a factor in finding easy R space.

The new normal, in my opinion, seems to be that R space simply does not exist except in exceptional circumstances. I'd say anecdotally it's been cut by more than 80%. They will keep those seats open, and peddle HOD offers to everyone on the plane, with the best offers reserved for those with no status on the lowest fares, and higher offers for loyal 1K flyers and the prices will keep falling until they find someone to take the seats. This is the "dynamic pricing" they are so proud of. Then, the standard seems to be that 1K's on the WL for R space will clear close to T-24 if they didn't get buyers for the HOD offers, or they might clear after T-24, assuming they make it on to the wait list (this requires running a gauntlet of uncontrollable SHARES obstacles) and then relying on the ground staff to competently clear the request manually (something I shared some insight into here - see item 15 and 16 on this link).

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...l#post20157178

So, whereas RN used to be an "entitlement" that we could all expect as part of 1K status, we've now basically been reduced to standby.
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