Consolidated "I've Flown on UA's 787" Thread (Reports, Experiences, Etc.)
Nov 6, 2012, 8:33 am
#76
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: What I write is my opinion alone..don't read into it anything not written.
Posts: 9,685
I'm not trying to convince YOU to do anything, just calling out the BS when it is posted. Why some people have the need to post BS/blatantly false statements and try to pass it off as fact is beyond me...most of "us" can smell it.
Nov 6, 2012, 8:40 am
#77
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: AS MVP, FB Silver (former UA 1K)
Posts: 161
What was Boeing thinking when it set the dimensions of the airframe, 8 or 9 abreast? With all of the new features intended to improve the passenger experience (lighting, windows, pressure/humidity, etc.), could narrower seating than the 777 have been a further Boeing "feature?" I doubt it. More room would have been logical, although it is always up to the airline to make the call. If the economics make nine abreast necessary, then Boeing miscalculated the dimensions, perhaps.
Nov 6, 2012, 8:59 am
#78
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York / Hawaii
Programs: UA Global Services, HH Diamond
Posts: 5,177
My 787 Experience on all 11/4 Flights
I flew the 787 IAH-ORD-IAH-LAX-IAH, so I had the unique opportunity of experiencing more than 10 hours of flight time on launch day of this equipment.
First, the cabin does feel better than other equipment. After a full day of flying, I didn't feel as dried out as I typically do in other metal ...and my ears didn't pop as much (or need to be cleared out as much). I flew back home IAH-EWR from this 787 adventure on a 767 and I noticed a big difference between the cabin comfort between the flights. So talk about humidity and lower cabin pressure does live up to its hype.
As others mention, the chance to do something game-changing was lost when United adopted the seating they did here. The gimmicks of the dimming windows and LED cabin lighting will be lost on most passengers after the first hour of flight...leaving you with the same experience you'd have on any other plane in terms of seat-comfort and in-seat amenities. It's also disappointing that these planes won't have WiFi 'till 2014 at the earliest.
I flew in first class on all 4 segments, bouncing around from window/aisle seats in both "cabins" in front of and behind the middle galley. There are big differences in the seat, most notably what happens with the foot well area of the plane. All seats here are definitely not equal...with some much more comfortable than others. If you don't believe me, sit in seat 1E and 2A --you will notice 1E is far more comfortable and roomier than 2A. I wish I had a ruler to measure the difference, but I would guess 1E is 2x wide as 2A. It at least felt that way.
The launch ORD-IAH flight was probably the most fun I've ever had on scheduled domestic service. It was awesome to be on a plane with enthusiastic aviation buffs ...complimented by professional, polished, thrilled-to-be-there flight crew. It really felt like a party...and it was great to have people roaming around everywhere, engaging each other and the crew, taking pictures/videos everywhere. Huge kudos to the crew for pulling off full service even with camera equipment and people in the aisles/galleys everywhere.
I saw LOTS of people taking LOTS of souvenirs off the flight; the 787 Safety Briefing Card was probably the most grabbed item. But I also saw people take their glasses, dishes, and even pillows and blankets. If it wasn't bolted down, there was a good chance it was going to walk. This was even true on the later 787 flights; on the IAH-LAX flight, I noticed a lot of stuff walking off the plane.
Some other things I noticed during my day of 787 flying:
-my cell just does not work on a 787. I don't know if it's just dumb luck or if there's something more sinister at play, but I couldn't get much of a signal going on the plane near the gate. (I never had this problem on other planes.) Other people didn't seem to mention any problems, but I found it odd my phone had this difficulty without fail. Anyone else on the 787 notice this?
-the electronic shades are a nice gimmick, but it basically is electronic sunglasses... and doesn't do enough to block out the sun. On the IAH-LAX, I had the sun shining into my A seat almost the whole trip. I had my windows dimmed down to maximum darkness, but that globe of fire was still shining fairly bright into my space. It wasn't blinding, but it was annoying. I wish I could just lower a shade over it to block the light.
-There was a little bit of condensation when we landed at ORD, but when we landed in IAH, LAX, and back at IAH, I noticed considerable fogging up of the windows during landing. With the relative humidity up in the cabin, I wonder if condensation on the windows will become an issue over time. When landing in IAH for the last flight, I could barely see anything out the window due to condensation forming on the -inside-.
-the 787 has some electronic gremlins, but no different than any other UA metal. Throughout my flights, the IFE failed on some people and some seats also failed, needing attendants to climb around them and "re-set" them. I also noticed the current coming out of the in-seat outlet was quite variable which was odd; my computer and phone were reporting weird things about the power supply coming to them. On one flight, my smartphone shut down charging due to irregular current coming in. IFE failures were also a little bizarre; on the IAH-LAX run, as an example, all the "A" seats failed twice during the flight but the rest of the cabin was fine. The agents were able to get things back up & running...and where they couldn't, there were technicians on-board that could. (Wonder how long those technicians will remain on the 787 flights.)
-787 flight attendants are the best in the system. They're international attendants selected for these flights, so they're the cream of the crop. The typical service on a flight as short as IAH-ORD doesn't usually get this type of service but it was a welcome treat. It'd be nice if their service rubs off on the rest of the domestic service.
Non-stop drink refills, non-stop checking on things, referring to each passenger by name (whether they're in their seat or out/about in the cabin) are things I typically associate with GlobalFirst/BusinessFirst trans-oceanic travel...and not domestic service like this.
First, the cabin does feel better than other equipment. After a full day of flying, I didn't feel as dried out as I typically do in other metal ...and my ears didn't pop as much (or need to be cleared out as much). I flew back home IAH-EWR from this 787 adventure on a 767 and I noticed a big difference between the cabin comfort between the flights. So talk about humidity and lower cabin pressure does live up to its hype.
As others mention, the chance to do something game-changing was lost when United adopted the seating they did here. The gimmicks of the dimming windows and LED cabin lighting will be lost on most passengers after the first hour of flight...leaving you with the same experience you'd have on any other plane in terms of seat-comfort and in-seat amenities. It's also disappointing that these planes won't have WiFi 'till 2014 at the earliest.
I flew in first class on all 4 segments, bouncing around from window/aisle seats in both "cabins" in front of and behind the middle galley. There are big differences in the seat, most notably what happens with the foot well area of the plane. All seats here are definitely not equal...with some much more comfortable than others. If you don't believe me, sit in seat 1E and 2A --you will notice 1E is far more comfortable and roomier than 2A. I wish I had a ruler to measure the difference, but I would guess 1E is 2x wide as 2A. It at least felt that way.
The launch ORD-IAH flight was probably the most fun I've ever had on scheduled domestic service. It was awesome to be on a plane with enthusiastic aviation buffs ...complimented by professional, polished, thrilled-to-be-there flight crew. It really felt like a party...and it was great to have people roaming around everywhere, engaging each other and the crew, taking pictures/videos everywhere. Huge kudos to the crew for pulling off full service even with camera equipment and people in the aisles/galleys everywhere.
I saw LOTS of people taking LOTS of souvenirs off the flight; the 787 Safety Briefing Card was probably the most grabbed item. But I also saw people take their glasses, dishes, and even pillows and blankets. If it wasn't bolted down, there was a good chance it was going to walk. This was even true on the later 787 flights; on the IAH-LAX flight, I noticed a lot of stuff walking off the plane.
Some other things I noticed during my day of 787 flying:
-my cell just does not work on a 787. I don't know if it's just dumb luck or if there's something more sinister at play, but I couldn't get much of a signal going on the plane near the gate. (I never had this problem on other planes.) Other people didn't seem to mention any problems, but I found it odd my phone had this difficulty without fail. Anyone else on the 787 notice this?
-the electronic shades are a nice gimmick, but it basically is electronic sunglasses... and doesn't do enough to block out the sun. On the IAH-LAX, I had the sun shining into my A seat almost the whole trip. I had my windows dimmed down to maximum darkness, but that globe of fire was still shining fairly bright into my space. It wasn't blinding, but it was annoying. I wish I could just lower a shade over it to block the light.
-There was a little bit of condensation when we landed at ORD, but when we landed in IAH, LAX, and back at IAH, I noticed considerable fogging up of the windows during landing. With the relative humidity up in the cabin, I wonder if condensation on the windows will become an issue over time. When landing in IAH for the last flight, I could barely see anything out the window due to condensation forming on the -inside-.
-the 787 has some electronic gremlins, but no different than any other UA metal. Throughout my flights, the IFE failed on some people and some seats also failed, needing attendants to climb around them and "re-set" them. I also noticed the current coming out of the in-seat outlet was quite variable which was odd; my computer and phone were reporting weird things about the power supply coming to them. On one flight, my smartphone shut down charging due to irregular current coming in. IFE failures were also a little bizarre; on the IAH-LAX run, as an example, all the "A" seats failed twice during the flight but the rest of the cabin was fine. The agents were able to get things back up & running...and where they couldn't, there were technicians on-board that could. (Wonder how long those technicians will remain on the 787 flights.)
-787 flight attendants are the best in the system. They're international attendants selected for these flights, so they're the cream of the crop. The typical service on a flight as short as IAH-ORD doesn't usually get this type of service but it was a welcome treat. It'd be nice if their service rubs off on the rest of the domestic service.
Non-stop drink refills, non-stop checking on things, referring to each passenger by name (whether they're in their seat or out/about in the cabin) are things I typically associate with GlobalFirst/BusinessFirst trans-oceanic travel...and not domestic service like this.
Nov 6, 2012, 9:06 am
#79
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: UA 1K 25 years/2MM, Honors LT Diamond, AVIS & Hertz Prez Club
Posts: 4,751
My cell wouldn't work once I was on board in Houston. I didn't have time to test it when we landed in ORD. Hence, I wasn't sure if it was related to our position at the airport and not something related to the aircraft materials.
Nov 6, 2012, 9:23 am
#80
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 1,185
iPhone on AT&T here. Not shocking for AT&T but it dropped to no signal immediately upon entering the cabin. Picked right back up when I departed. Strange for sure.
Nov 6, 2012, 9:31 am
#81
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: New York / Hawaii
Programs: UA Global Services, HH Diamond
Posts: 5,177
I have a Sprint phone and was at zero or 1 bar at each city when I could operate my phone on the plane. I wonder if the dimming windows act as a shield. And at IAH, we used both E and C gates...and the same issue. I flew the 787 out of gate E5 and a 767 out of gate E4 and had all my bars on the 767, but none on the 787.
Nov 6, 2012, 10:06 am
#82
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Boston, MA (BOS)
Programs: AA PLT Pro 2MM, DL Gold, UA Silver, Marriott Ambassador + LT Plat, COFC Venture X, HHonors Diamond
Posts: 5,587
Nov 6, 2012, 10:07 am
#83
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA GS 1MM
Posts: 693
It was by far the most fun I have had on a flight and reminded me of the 737 retirement flight I went on a few years back. Kudos to United, the crew and the passengers for making it so memorable.
Nov 6, 2012, 11:51 am
#84
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: IAH
Programs: UA nada, Hyatt Disc, Hilton Gold
Posts: 846
I suspected that the 764s and 788s would have the same seat, but are you sure the 752s use the same one? The touch screen in the headrest was different on the last 752 I rode; noticeably absent was the USB plug I found on the 764 headrest.
Nov 6, 2012, 11:51 am
#85
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Washington, D.C.
Programs: UA Premier 1K: PlAAtinum; DL SM, MM; Marriott Gold; CO Plat Emeritus; NW Plat Emeritus
Posts: 4,776
Even if they were going to cram them in, couldn't they have bought some nicer seats? Or even fabric (or leather)?
Dis-appointing.
Dis-appointing.
Nov 6, 2012, 11:59 am
#86
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kirkland, WA
Programs: AS 75K,UA Gold 1.6MM, Hilton Dia, Marriott LT Plat, Hyatt Glb, Natl Exec, Hertz 5*
Posts: 3,657
In order to deal with lightning, since the 787 is composite, it has a wire mesh embedded in the composite laminate to disperse the electrical charge. I am sure this acts as a big antenna shield against cell phone signals.
Nov 6, 2012, 1:09 pm
#87
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Benicia, California, USA
Programs: AA PLT,AS,UA PP,J6,FB,EY,LH,SQ,HH Dmd,Hyatt Glbl,Marriott Plat,IHG Plat,Accor Gold
Posts: 10,820
I've been pondering the "game-changer" language emphasis in Jeff's video spiel while reading these posts. After all, the near-universal response by FT types is more or less "Meh" -- yeah, the tech is cool, and the windows and pressurization are a minor plus, but for genuinely frequent fliers and road warriors, it's all about the seat at the end of the day. And by all reports, the UA 787 seats range from "It's not too bad" (BF and E+ bulkhead) to "Ow, ow, ow" (E-).
For a while, I thought the "game-changer" language was management narcissism -- that UA management was basically congratulating themselves and the shareholders. After all, the 787 does change the game from management's perspective. It's cheaper, more flexible, more efficient. It opens up routes like DEN-NRT and IAH-AKL to profitability. But, if that's what they mean, crowing about it to passengers seems stunningly obtuse.
But I've changed my mind -- partly. I think UA management does see it as a positive game-changing force for their valued customers. It's just that we (FTers) are not those customers.
It's a game-changer for passengers who hate flying, and want to minimize the time between Point A and Point B. For passengers who loathe multiple connections, fear airports and layovers, and love nonstops. For passengers who see the flight as a necessary evil, and don't distinguish between seats except maybe "window or aisle?" And for passengers who just want cheaper tickets.
As I said in another thread, I think UA's vision is to be a sort of globe-spanning WN, with a dense network of thin "niche" routes. They've seen the fantastic success of WN's domestic business model, and (probably correctly) concluded that there's room for that model internationally. Lots of nonstop flights, a tolerable BF product for business flyers, E+ to keep mid-level frequent flyers in the fold, and the densest possible E- seating to keep ticket prices low for price-conscious buyers.
So, no, it's not gonna be game-changing from a comfort perspective. In fact, the little perks (higher pressure, better windows, lighting, IFE) serve as an opiate for the masses. In some complicated calculus of pain, they balance out the loss of seat comfort.
And, at the end of the day, I think it just might be a game-changer for a lot of passengers -- just like WN. But I'm realizing that we're not the target market.
For a while, I thought the "game-changer" language was management narcissism -- that UA management was basically congratulating themselves and the shareholders. After all, the 787 does change the game from management's perspective. It's cheaper, more flexible, more efficient. It opens up routes like DEN-NRT and IAH-AKL to profitability. But, if that's what they mean, crowing about it to passengers seems stunningly obtuse.
But I've changed my mind -- partly. I think UA management does see it as a positive game-changing force for their valued customers. It's just that we (FTers) are not those customers.
It's a game-changer for passengers who hate flying, and want to minimize the time between Point A and Point B. For passengers who loathe multiple connections, fear airports and layovers, and love nonstops. For passengers who see the flight as a necessary evil, and don't distinguish between seats except maybe "window or aisle?" And for passengers who just want cheaper tickets.
As I said in another thread, I think UA's vision is to be a sort of globe-spanning WN, with a dense network of thin "niche" routes. They've seen the fantastic success of WN's domestic business model, and (probably correctly) concluded that there's room for that model internationally. Lots of nonstop flights, a tolerable BF product for business flyers, E+ to keep mid-level frequent flyers in the fold, and the densest possible E- seating to keep ticket prices low for price-conscious buyers.
So, no, it's not gonna be game-changing from a comfort perspective. In fact, the little perks (higher pressure, better windows, lighting, IFE) serve as an opiate for the masses. In some complicated calculus of pain, they balance out the loss of seat comfort.
And, at the end of the day, I think it just might be a game-changer for a lot of passengers -- just like WN. But I'm realizing that we're not the target market.
Nov 6, 2012, 2:06 pm
#88
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southern California, GVA, SIN, LHR, BRU, CDG
Programs: UA LT GS 4.12MM (4.08MM BIS), AA EXP 1.86MM ,DL DM 1.1MM, HH LT Diamond, SPG Platinum
Posts: 1,182
Unfortunately you are correct! Now that I have had the opportunity to experience both UA's and NH's E seats on the 787, I can confirm that there is a significant difference between the two with the NH seats being far more comfortable and roomy! I am confident in saying that I will not be flying UA on the 787 in E anytime soon...especially international long haul!
Nov 6, 2012, 3:06 pm
#90
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: WAS-ish
Programs: UA 1K-MM + UC, Marriott Plat, National Exec
Posts: 1,341
I've learned a lot from lurking and reading what older, wiser heads have written here. If I can contribute to the conversation, I'm happy.