aluminumdriver

OJ's have their place, as some have pointed out, flying to small destinations or cities that can't sustain mainline service. However, one has to wonder about some flights such as AUS-SFO or other long range flights that are more suited to mainline aircraft. I have no doubt we're losing domestic market share right now due to competing against WN and DL mainline aircraft. You lose money as a corporation when passengers book away from you.

All about a happy medium.

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DXjr

As much as I agree with you here, it's hard to discount that both AA and AS have both given up on the market even though they were both were using SJC, and aiming at the primary beneficiaries of that market: the tech companies. WN has picked up the route, and they are somewhat better because the majority of those passengers connect anyhow. How this relates to AUS-SFO, though, is that I've taken that flight both on the CRJ-700 and A319, and well, let's just say that it was a non-rev's dream come true. So, that said, yeah, the CRJ-700 might not be the "right" aircraft for the leg, but it's the happy medium between an empty Airbus, a connection at DEN, or no service at all.

lebowski2222

Has anyone ever seen the PBS Frontline on Regional Aircraft. It's pretty interesting. I really hate flying regional jets and they are really the only jets that have problems because of inexperienced pilots and harsh working conditions. ]

After seeing this you will never want to fly a Regional Jet again.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/flyingcheap/

unavaca

I suspect that once VX decides to pickup the SFO-AUS route, UA will completely stop SFO-AUS service.

No matter how you spin it, UA isn't sexy to the dot-commers; VX is. You can't court dot-commers without in-flight Wi-Fi, that's for sure.

EmailKid

I saw the Frontline on TV, but unless there's another program, it was mostly talking about the Buffalo crash, and that was a turboprop, not an RJ.

I'm not a pilot, didn't do any training but even I know that to avoid a stall you DO NOT pull up, but push down to descend to gain speed

And I would think that EVERYONE knows that lack of sleep will impair a person's judgement

EmailKid, still flying RJs

aluminumdriver

But that is really a self induced load factor issue. United does this in a lot of cities. Make service so measly and non-inducing, fewer and fewer people fly you, and you get down to the loads an RJ can handle. I remember when I used to fly to ATL on full airbuses and 737's. Now they barely fill 70 seaters. Same with Omaha and Kansas City to name a few.

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TravellingMan

^ Well put. The routes you mention are the ones that I try to avoid UA on. With them flying 737s TPAC and 757s TATL, I reckon they want to do the same internationally too.

A RJ flight from DEN-IDA makes sense but a RJ flight from DEN-ATL makes no sense. I have recently booked WN and/or DL on those routes.

LASUA1K

Again you are right. I fly UA and prefer it when I know its mainline. I always did ord-mci,stl,dsm,oma, atl, dtw.

I dont even look at UA. I go straight to southwest.com and book my ticket. No point of wasting time on ua.com. Its mostly express. Again, I'm not the only one. Several former UA mm's flyers are taking WN from mdw.

lensman

I'm sure that there are a lot of people who will book away from a long RJ nonstop route. OTOH, I think there are a lot of people who do not - most of the folks at the place I work, in fact. They seem to delight in the horrific 3+ hour E45 flight and will, in fact, pay a premium to fly it.

I don't like it, but these folks are business travelers and so the numbers game means that this flight will probably continue despite the ill feeling towards regional jets found here on this forum. I can't explain it but I can't call United stupid for following the money. (I might call them detestable, though!)

LASUA1K

Why would someone pay a premium for an erj 45? Single sest? I know people who book away from erj.

DXjr

Aye, I would say it's partly self-induced, but there are other factors that play into that as well.

LCC competition

Using the AUS-SFO example, why would anyone pay $500 for a non-stop, when they can make a stop in ABQ, PHX, and ONT and only pay $250?

Service/Amenities

-Why pay for TV? (jetBlue, Delta)

-Where's my Wifi? (Southwest, VA, Frontier have it, and Delta has even rolled it out to every plane with first class) (Yes, I know that UA has it on PS flights for now.))

-Where's my food? (DL has meals in first even on its RJs, VA has premium meals for purchase, also DL and Frontier have those premium cocktails.)

Anyhow, I know it sounds like a short list of complaints, and I know others might chime in, too, but that's UA's competition right there. I know that you can't control those things, but that's partially why DL is kicking rear on DEN-ATL, packing 757 after 757. UA seems to be conservatively addressing these issues thankfully, but I'm sure many would say that it's not fast enough. I'm sure the merger played a great deal into those delays.

Though I wish others had channel 9.


The special was mainly focusing on the Buffalo crash, and Colgan in general; however, the show was basically blanketing the entire regional industry as though they ALL had operated the way Colgan was/had been, or are start-up, fly-by-night operations, which is certainly NOT the case. Heck, the more well-known ones have been around for at least 30 years or more (Some, 50 or more,) and their safety records more than prove themselves.

The only thing that really applied as a blanket statement in the show was the crashpads, but it's a pretty standard thing throughout the entire airline industry.

According to some Q pilots I've talked to, he was actually responding correctly for what he THOUGHT he was experiencing. It doesn't make sense, I know.

lensman

They want the nonstop and will pay a premium for it. It gets them into the New York office an hour or two earlier on Monday and gets them home an hour or two earlier on Friday. Also, about 50% of the alternatives involve 1 hour on an ERJ and 3 hours on mainline vs 3 hours on the ERJ nonstop.

xzh445

VX burned thru $23 Million last quarter and is now down to under $80 Million cash. They may be sexy, but unless they stop bleeding cash, they will disappear sooner rather than later. The dot-commer's aren't paying high enough yield to create a successful business model.

As for Wi-Fi, yeah it's great, but article after article show that people are not willing to pay for it at current rates. The whole model will likely change over the next 2-3 years, where it becomes more affordable, but right now, it is just not a significant business driver.