Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

Upgrade still waitlisted even though R (now PZ) class is available {Archive}

Upgrade still waitlisted even though R (now PZ) class is available {Archive}

Old Nov 20, 2014, 10:44 am
  #751  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,067
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
Luckily, my travel is flexible enough that I never waitlist, so I'm an impartial observer. From afar, clearing the waitlist in order seems fair.
Clearing the waitlist in order IS fair. Problem is, your solution doesn't ensure that.

One can still request a new upgrade and beat the whole list with the current infrastructure. And those in the know can revoke their upgrade and re-request an upgrade.
channa is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 10:44 am
  #752  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,300
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
I think the system can be less "unfair" if a call-in prompts UA to clears into R based on the waitlist.
But they don't clear the waitlist starting at #1. They just refuse to clear you. A classic UA "solution" that does nothing to resolve the problem.

So you're OK with watching the inventory like a hawk, being #1 on the list and # 8 clears because he's sees R suddenly become available and you've averted your eyes momentarily to reach for the handle? He deserves it as it is now?
I really am. Snooze and lose. I also have no faith whatsoever in the "fairness" of the waitlist system as designed and implemented by UA.

Well, let's agree to disagree
Yes, reasonable minds can certainly differ here.
Kacee is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 10:46 am
  #753  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,067
Originally Posted by johnden
I'm not a fan of the "but others are cheating so why shouldn't I?", although this seems to be common refrain on here.
It's not that others are cheating, so it makes it OK. Rather it's every man for himself.

Until the system is fixed, that's the way it works.
channa is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 10:53 am
  #754  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 14,925
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
...New booker grabs it ahead of waitlist = Unfair...
...and I do realize that my habit of only booking only when R is available may amount to snagging the R upgrade waitlisters were looking for...
IAH-OIL-TRASH is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 10:55 am
  #755  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,300
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
...and I do realize that my habit of only booking only when R is available may amount to snagging the R upgrade waitlisters were looking for...
Which is why I really don't think this is a situation where ethics or fairness come into play.

And I am generally very rule oriented.
Kacee is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 10:56 am
  #756  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Location: NorCal - 1K 2MM
Posts: 2,088
Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
...and I do realize that my habit of only booking only when R is available may amount to snagging the R upgrade waitlisters were looking for...
So, shouldn't you stop making a brand new booking when R is available, even if the need for the trip just arose, because you know you may be unethically jumping people on the waitlist?? Once one phrases the question this way, it becomes pretty clear that if COdbaUA doesn't fix the problem that is clearly of their own making, debating exactly what is most ethical for the customer is pretty hypothetical.

Last edited by Starman; Nov 20, 2014 at 11:07 am
Starman is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 11:06 am
  #757  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA MM Plat; AA MM Gold; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 15,866
Originally Posted by johnden
...There is still a line, you know there is a line...
No, I don't know that there is a line. If I'm waitlisted and a flight goes to R1, I may be the only one on the list and yet some yahoo could make a new booking and snag MY upgrade right out from under me.

I'm calling in and pulling the upgrade, then reapplying. Until this gets fixed, all's fair in love, war, and upgrades.

Originally Posted by IAH-OIL-TRASH
...Luckily, my travel is flexible enough that I never waitlist...
Almost always the case for me as well. However, if the domestic portion of a trip is waitlisted at booking and then goes to R>0, I'm calling in. I posted an example of this upthread, and two agents refused to clear the upgrade, leading me to speculate that the agents have been issued a memo regarding the practice of clearing waitlisters into R manually.

By the way, in that case the international leg had gone to R0 so the pull/reapply trick was too dangerous (R inventory may not have been reinstated).

Last edited by Bonehead; Nov 20, 2014 at 11:12 am
Bonehead is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 11:15 am
  #758  
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K, SPG Platinum
Posts: 211
Originally Posted by Bonehead
No, I don't know that there is a line. If I'm waitlisted and a flight goes to R1, I may be the only one on the list and yet some yahoo could make a new booking and snag MY upgrade right out from under me.

I'm calling in and pulling the upgrade, then reapplying. Until this gets fixed, all's fair in love, war, and upgrades.
Agreed. I wonder if those who think this is unfair would call in to check if there's a waitlist when they see R1 on a flight they just booked rather than applying the upgrade on the spot?
MattR23 is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 11:17 am
  #759  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 14,925
[QUOTE=Starman;23871864]So, shouldn't you stop making a brand new booking when R is available, even if the need for the trip just arose, because you know you may be unethically jumping people on the waitlist??...QUOTE]

How would I know if there was waitlist (plausible ignorance)? On the other hand, people calling in know there's a waitlist (ie they are on it). On that side of the equation, I guess it's plausible ignorance to assume they are #1 on the list.

My only points are 1) yes, the system is broken and 2) just my opinion - even though it's broken, UA could clear the waitlist in order when alerted to R availability.
IAH-OIL-TRASH is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 11:17 am
  #760  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: DEN
Programs: UA MM Plat; AA MM Gold; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 15,866
Originally Posted by MattR23
Agreed. I wonder if those who think this is unfair would call in to check if there's a waitlist when they see R1 on a flight they just booked rather than applying the upgrade on the spot?
A most excellent point.
Bonehead is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 11:37 am
  #761  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,067
Originally Posted by MattR23
Agreed. I wonder if those who think this is unfair would call in to check if there's a waitlist when they see R1 on a flight they just booked rather than applying the upgrade on the spot?


Could you imagine the conversation?

Customer: Good morning, I'm calling about UA 123 on Jan 15 from Newark to London. I see there's upgrade space available, and I'm about to purchase a ticket, but I wanted to make sure nobody was waitlisted since you know, SHARES is broken, and these things don't always clear right.

Agent: SHARES is not broken, I've been with Continental for 30 years, and I don't know why people keep saying that. The system works fine.

Customer: That's nice, but could you check if there is anybody on the upgrade list?

Agent: I don't have access to do it, but I can see there is an upgrade seat if you purchase a ticket and wish to upgrade.

Customer: I can see that, but I'm trying to make sure that nobody is ahead of me so I don't jump over them because SHARES is broken.

Agent: I don't know what you're trying to do. Let me get a supervisor.

*Rhapsody in Blue*

15 minutes later...

Supv.: This is Caroline in Houston. I can't provide any information on the flight since you do not have a ticket yet.

Customer: Hang on a moment, let me make the booking real quick. I can always refund it with the 24 hour rule. Do you have half an hour to spend with me in case SHARES barfs on ticketing?

Supv.: I'm not sure what you mean about that. I've been with Continental for 31 years, and SHARES never barfs.

Customer: Ok, whatever, can you hang on while this ticket processes?

Supv.: If it's quick, maybe. *cough* Excuse me, sorry my throat is a bit parched, it's unusually dry here in Texas right now. Where did I put my "we're the best" mug of blue Kool-Aid?

Customer: You have a "We're the best" mug?

Supv.: Oh, that's from the old Continental days. They used to pay us in company scrip that we had to spend at the company store, so I was able to purchase all these great company-branded items. Apparently Illinois labor laws made them stop that when we became United, and now we have to get paid in cash. Those liberals ruined a good thing.

Customer: I see, I think it ticketed, can you check the flight now.

Supv.: Sure, what's the confirmation number?

Customer: XYZ123

Supv.: One moment, my computer is being slow.

Customer: SHARES. *giggle*

Supv.: SHARES is great, that's why we picked it over United's inferior system.

Customer: Heh. Has it loaded yet?

Supv.: One moment.

Customer: *laughs*

Supv.: I have it right here, New York to London on the 15th of January.

Customer: Newark, but close enough.

Supv.: Newark is better.

Customer: Whatever, how's the upgrade waitlist?

Supv.: Let's see...there are 2 people on the list for upgrades now. But let me go ahead and confirm you since there is 1 upgrade seat.

Customer: NO!!! That wouldn't be fair to the other customers who have been waiting for months. I'd like to waitlist instead.

Supv.: I can't waitlist you, since there is an R seat available. The only thing I can do is confirm you.

Customer: Can you process the first customer?

Supv.: No, the computer has to do that.

Customer: Then what do I do?

Supv.: If you don't want to be confirmed now, you have to wait until the first customer is processed, that may run overnight. Then you can list for it maybe tomorrow.

Customer: So now I have to monitor the flight for R space to disappear so that I can waitlist properly???

Supv.: Well, I could confirm you now, but you don't want that.

Customer: I suppose the right thing to do is to keep an eye on the flight and purchase once R goes to zero. Could you refund my ticket please?

Supv.: Sure. Please allow 7-10 days for a refund.

Customer: Thanks. You've been extremely helpful.

Supv.: That's because I'm sub-Continental. We're the best!

Customer: Bye.
channa is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 11:41 am
  #762  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: PHX
Programs: AS 75K; UA 1MM; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott LTP; Hilton Diamond (Aspire)
Posts: 56,300
Originally Posted by channa
Customer: NO!!! That wouldn't be fair to the other customers who have been waiting for months. I'd like to waitlist instead.

Supv.: I can't waitlist you, since there is an R seat available. The only thing I can do is confirm you.
lol this is classic

Originally Posted by channa
This is Caroline in Houston.
Nah, she's in Tampa.
Kacee is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 12:57 pm
  #763  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 14,925
Although I completely understand the "every man for himself" opinion on the passengers' side, I still think (until they fix the flaw) that UA, when alerted to R availability and existence of waitlist, should do the right thing and clear based on waitlist.

There's two responsible sides to this:

1) Passengers - every man for himself until UA fixes the problem

2) UA - fix the problem and, until it's fixed, clear the waitlist in order when alerted to R availability and waitlist.

And Channa, that would be a crackling version of Rhapsody in Blue
IAH-OIL-TRASH is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 1:55 pm
  #764  
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: PBI / FLL / YUL
Programs: UA 1K, Delta Plat, AA Plat, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, Hyatt Courtesy Card
Posts: 1,983
channa, that is one of the single funniest things I've ever read on FlyerTalk. Bravo. If not for this ferret failing to make this jump, it would be the funniest thing I've seen all week.
fjfv19 is offline  
Old Nov 20, 2014, 2:42 pm
  #765  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern Calif./Eastern Ida.
Programs: Amethyst Premier Plutonium Medallion
Posts: 20,566
Bravo channa, but your fantasy flight ticketed way too fast for SHARES
PV_Premier is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.