UAL 872 aborted takeoff today due to overweight loading.
Aug 6, 2012, 10:59 am
#31
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OK here's probably the answer.
We get final weights from our load planning after all passengers are boarded and bags, usually as we taxi out. We make sure we're legal and safe for takeoff.
In the past, this worked like clockwork. However, in the past couple months after an IT changeover (sound familiar?), there have been instances of crews getting new final weights after they take off that are incorrect. So with this in mind, pilots are much more careful and wary of their final weight products. On takeoff roll, they probably saw an ACARS message pop up, something that in the past we'd just ignore till airborne. But right now, thinking it might be another new final weights coming through and they were probably close to their maximum allowable takeoff weight, they elected to abort to make sure. It may feel like they slammed on the brakes but they were below 80 knots so it may feel violent, but in reality not that big a deal up front.
Just another example of your United pilots taking the safe decision in a very difficult operating environment we're in right now.
AD
We get final weights from our load planning after all passengers are boarded and bags, usually as we taxi out. We make sure we're legal and safe for takeoff.
In the past, this worked like clockwork. However, in the past couple months after an IT changeover (sound familiar?), there have been instances of crews getting new final weights after they take off that are incorrect. So with this in mind, pilots are much more careful and wary of their final weight products. On takeoff roll, they probably saw an ACARS message pop up, something that in the past we'd just ignore till airborne. But right now, thinking it might be another new final weights coming through and they were probably close to their maximum allowable takeoff weight, they elected to abort to make sure. It may feel like they slammed on the brakes but they were below 80 knots so it may feel violent, but in reality not that big a deal up front.
Just another example of your United pilots taking the safe decision in a very difficult operating environment we're in right now.
AD
Aug 6, 2012, 11:11 am
#32
Join Date: Jul 2012
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UA & CO load planning is done differently, but typically, you are to have all of your final weights prior to pushback so any problems can be rectified at the gate, not at the runway. And if he was overweight, when he is punching in the numbers that were given to him at the gate, he would have known then that he was overweight, not at the runway.
That is what I thought. I was a flight attendant for UAL for 8 years and never once experienced this issue after take off. They know the weight and balance before the flight.
Aug 6, 2012, 11:13 am
#33
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 4,645
You're right. He didn't say that. I re-read the prior message and saw that he described getting a message in-flight that would normally be ignored but now must be considered because there is less faith in the quality of the data they had in the first place. I assumed that means we're depending on a pilot to do manual work while preparing for takeoff and such manual work wasn't required prior to CO takeover. But, I see that was an assumption on my part.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Aug 6, 2012 at 12:24 pm Reason: merge
Aug 6, 2012, 11:50 am
#34
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Last edited by goodeats21; Aug 6, 2012 at 11:51 am Reason: added AD quote
Aug 6, 2012, 12:42 pm
#35
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
AD
UA & CO load planning is done differently, but typically, you are to have all of your final weights prior to pushback so any problems can be rectified at the gate, not at the runway. And if he was overweight, when he is punching in the numbers that were given to him at the gate, he would have known then that he was overweight, not at the runway.
The pilots wouldn't take off knowing they were overweight. The problem was the "updated" numbers being sent after they're on takeoff roll or airborne.
AD
Last edited by iluv2fly; Aug 6, 2012 at 1:31 pm Reason: merge
Aug 6, 2012, 12:49 pm
#36
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OK here's probably the answer.
We get final weights from our load planning after all passengers are boarded and bags, usually as we taxi out. We make sure we're legal and safe for takeoff.
In the past, this worked like clockwork. However, in the past couple months after an IT changeover (sound familiar?), there have been instances of crews getting new final weights after they take off that are incorrect. So with this in mind, pilots are much more careful and wary of their final weight products. On takeoff roll, they probably saw an ACARS message pop up, something that in the past we'd just ignore till airborne. But right now, thinking it might be another new final weights coming through and they were probably close to their maximum allowable takeoff weight, they elected to abort to make sure. It may feel like they slammed on the brakes but they were below 80 knots so it may feel violent, but in reality not that big a deal up front.
Just another example of your United pilots taking the safe decision in a very difficult operating environment we're in right now.
AD
We get final weights from our load planning after all passengers are boarded and bags, usually as we taxi out. We make sure we're legal and safe for takeoff.
In the past, this worked like clockwork. However, in the past couple months after an IT changeover (sound familiar?), there have been instances of crews getting new final weights after they take off that are incorrect. So with this in mind, pilots are much more careful and wary of their final weight products. On takeoff roll, they probably saw an ACARS message pop up, something that in the past we'd just ignore till airborne. But right now, thinking it might be another new final weights coming through and they were probably close to their maximum allowable takeoff weight, they elected to abort to make sure. It may feel like they slammed on the brakes but they were below 80 knots so it may feel violent, but in reality not that big a deal up front.
Just another example of your United pilots taking the safe decision in a very difficult operating environment we're in right now.
AD
Aug 6, 2012, 1:12 pm
#37
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: KEWR
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you're incorrect. At least on the UAL side, we rarely have final weights prior to push back. A good day is prior to taxi, but that is rare as well. Usually on taxi out, over the past couple months many times sitting #1 waiting and having to ping load planning for the numbers.
The pilots wouldn't take off knowing they were overweight. The problem was the "updated" numbers being sent after they're on takeoff roll or airborne.
AD
The pilots wouldn't take off knowing they were overweight. The problem was the "updated" numbers being sent after they're on takeoff roll or airborne.
AD
Very rarely do we get new weight figures during taxi, if we do it's for a runway change or adjusted passenger count.
Aug 6, 2012, 1:27 pm
#38
Original Poster
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 16
That sounds entirely plausible. The only thing that had me wondering was the beefed-up TSA presence at the gate. I've seen TSA at the gate plenty of times but that, in combination with the aborted takeoff, had me wondering.
Thanks for the detailed reply.
Aug 6, 2012, 1:32 pm
#39
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Posts: 334
Just another difference in the way we do things. On the CO side our numbers are sent to us via ACARS and the ACCULOAD printed with the weights/V speeds prior to the before push checklist.
Very rarely do we get new weight figures during taxi, if we do it's for a runway change or adjusted passenger count.
Very rarely do we get new weight figures during taxi, if we do it's for a runway change or adjusted passenger count.
Despite innuendo and insinuations of unsafe operations posted by a sUA pilot as God's truth, it's helpful to have a little balance.
The two airlines run things differently.
Aug 6, 2012, 1:44 pm
#40
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,123
Have no idea what you're referring to. I've only explained what the OP could have been dealing with on their abort. What this poster said and I said are the same thing, only they're talking about L-CAL operations and I'm referring to the L-UAL operations. I guess it's the God's honest truth if that's what you want to call it.AD
Aug 6, 2012, 1:54 pm
#41
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Aug 6, 2012, 2:18 pm
#42
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Pot, meet kettle. Seems like you have no idea either.
Just another difference in the way we do things. On the CO side our numbers are sent to us via ACARS and the ACCULOAD printed with the weights/V speeds prior to the before push checklist.
Very rarely do we get new weight figures during taxi, if we do it's for a runway change or adjusted passenger count.
Very rarely do we get new weight figures during taxi, if we do it's for a runway change or adjusted passenger count.
Aug 6, 2012, 2:23 pm
#43
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Also hoping some of the pilot pushing and creative scheduling techniques I've experienced at CO will go away once the merger is complete. But that's for another thread.
Aug 6, 2012, 2:27 pm
#44
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Too much food and booze in the front....offload some. 
RJ's are always asking people to move if they need to redistribute weight. So there has to be some calc that says too much weight get rid of something.
RJ's are always asking people to move if they need to redistribute weight. So there has to be some calc that says too much weight get rid of something.
Aug 6, 2012, 2:32 pm
#45
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