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Should passengers refuse UA VDB offers in order to maximize oversale compensation?

Should passengers refuse UA VDB offers in order to maximize oversale compensation?

Old Jul 3, 2012, 10:51 am
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by hobo13
Come to think of it, what does this thread even have to do with UA? (Other than the OP is mad at them, LOL!)
Seriously... this is like OMNI material.

Originally Posted by STS-134
From the perspective of each passenger who can stay behind trying to maximize his profit, all pax are competitors. However from the perspective of all passengers as a whole, we should see ourselves as a team. In the above example, note that the result (as far as who stays and who goes) is the same. The only difference is that each of us has an additional $25, because we cooperated.

It could easily happen, if someone were to take charge, step up, and start writing down everyone's offers. It could also happen automatically, if technologies like Wi-Fi Direct become ubiquitous.
So, what you are saying is you will need everyone to agree to participate, and somehow, in the span of 15 minutes you gather all that information, and you get people to trust that you'll somehow give them their fare SHARES (puns intended). Or, to simplify the process, you will still need to rely on technologies that everyone will not have access to.

I think the best way to approach this is to do it yourself. Forget the conceptual/hypothetical discussion of your ideas; just do it next time. Go up to the GA/FA, take that PA mike from his or her hands, and give the passengers your spiel. Then, come back and tell us what was the result.

It's beginning to sound like there are more social and technical hurdles to this than building a Star Trek transporter.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 10:51 am
  #62  
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Originally Posted by STS-134
However from the perspective of all passengers as a whole, we should see ourselves as a team.
Hmm, in all my years of flying I have never once thought of my fellow passengers as a 'team'. And certainly not on the few times I've been in VDB situations.

On a dif note - I have some relatives & neighbors who rarely travel but have been in VDB situations. They've jumped at them, and the offers are rarely anything we would go for, so I think your scheme is doomed.

Cheers.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 10:51 am
  #63  
 
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Originally Posted by STS-134
If you are going to undercut me at $850, then what you should do is TELL ME your price. Both of us hold out so the airline is forced to give $900, they pay you $900, and you keep between $850-900 and give me somewhere between $0-50. A fair price, I think, is to split it in half. You keep $875 and stay behind with an extra $25, and I go on my way with an extra $25. See how that works?
Are you assuming everyone must tell the truth? I believe it can happen in Utopian International Airport. Don't forget that you cannot make a contract even if you want. There is no consideration from you.

You do not know me. I do not know you either. How can I rest assured that you won't undercut me or keep a promise? If I am telling you my true bottom line ($850 in your example), how do I know if you will go to the gate and say you will beat me by $0.01?

Welcome to Earth, my new friend from Utopian.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 10:53 am
  #64  
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Originally Posted by STS-134
From the perspective of each passenger who can stay behind trying to maximize his profit, all pax are competitors. However from the perspective of all passengers as a whole, we should see ourselves as a team. In the above example, note that the result (as far as who stays and who goes) is the same. The only difference is that each of us has an additional $25, because we cooperated.

It could easily happen, if someone were to take charge, step up, and start writing down everyone's offers. It could also happen automatically, if technologies like Wi-Fi Direct become ubiquitous.
And you can't even get 200 people on FlyerTalk who usually have the same point of view/perspective on the situation to agree with you. How will you ever get 200 complete strangers to agree with you. Never happen. But feel free to try it next time and then post back you results. We would all love to know the outcome.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 11:03 am
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by STS-134
From the perspective of each passenger who can stay behind trying to maximize his profit, all pax are competitors. However from the perspective of all passengers as a whole, we should see ourselves as a team. In the above example, note that the result (as far as who stays and who goes) is the same. The only difference is that each of us has an additional $25, because we cooperated.

It could easily happen, if someone were to take charge, step up, and start writing down everyone's offers. It could also happen automatically, if technologies like Wi-Fi Direct become ubiquitous.
why would i pay you $25 when i know i can get $400 from a domestic oversell? like others have stated, VDB is not a team game. it's for me, and me only.

and no, it will never happen.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 11:22 am
  #66  
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Not to be cliched, but I'm a bird in the hand/two in the bush kind of guy. I'd rather be guaranteed $800 then maybe get more later.

Plus, based on a VDB experience I had last year, I, a VDBer got a much better flight than someone else who was an IDBer. I think you earn yourself something of a "credit" with the GAs when you volunteer and they're more likely to help you out with upgrades, routings, times, other airlines etc.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 11:27 am
  #67  
 
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Originally Posted by CMK10
Not to be cliched, but I'm a bird in the hand/two in the bush kind of guy. I'd rather be guaranteed $800 then maybe get more later.

Plus, based on a VDB experience I had last year, I, a VDBer got a much better flight than someone else who was an IDBer. I think you earn yourself something of a "credit" with the GAs when you volunteer and they're more likely to help you out with upgrades, routings, times, other airlines etc.
in the case of getting a VDB, i always have my route options ready to go. a lot of times the GA doesn't realize that i'm aware of fare codes, routings, etc. they appreciate the fact you make their job easier. so if i can be guaranteed $400, and then get the routing i want, see you later. a lot of times i will get put in F or exit row simply by helping out the GA.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 11:29 am
  #68  
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Taxes?

Let's also not forget that a significant % of this flight are likely to be business travelers where somebody else, namely the employer, is paying for the ticket. IDB is cash compensation and it either belongs to the employer or its taxable income to the pax who didn't pay for the ticket.

VDB coupons are also likely the same, but businesses and certainly US tax authorities, IRS, don't look at it that way (now).

Coupons/credits/certificates are just as valuable as cash for the regular flier. Certainly not worth anything to the guy who will never use them.

So, even on this point, OP has another false premise.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 2:22 pm
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Firewind
That's how it's supposed to be, and also why the poster @37 is too glib by half. Don't ever take a bump and "not look back". The offer may be sweetened before the flight leaves, and everyone who VDBed is entitled to the final DBC offer.
On the other hand, there have been cases where there's a last-minute no-show and the VDB is boarded, with loss of compensation. If they'd taken the money (cert) and walked away, they'd still be away.
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 2:25 pm
  #70  
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Originally Posted by sethb
On the other hand, there have been cases where there's a last-minute no-show and the VDB is boarded, with loss of compensation. If they'd taken the money (cert) and walked away, they'd still be away.
You'd better believe that every time I have a voucher in hand the first thing I do is walk quickly from the gate and find somewhere else to hang out until that plane leaves. I've read stories of people who dawdled having their vouchers rescinded and it will NOT happen to me!
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 8:22 pm
  #71  
 
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Originally Posted by luv2ctheworld
Seriously... this is like OMNI material.



So, what you are saying is you will need everyone to agree to participate, and somehow, in the span of 15 minutes you gather all that information, and you get people to trust that you'll somehow give them their fare SHARES (puns intended). Or, to simplify the process, you will still need to rely on technologies that everyone will not have access to.

I think the best way to approach this is to do it yourself. Forget the conceptual/hypothetical discussion of your ideas; just do it next time. Go up to the GA/FA, take that PA mike from his or her hands, and give the passengers your spiel. Then, come back and tell us what was the result.

It's beginning to sound like there are more social and technical hurdles to this than building a Star Trek transporter.
I think this has some serious potential. To the OP, I say "Go for it!!" With your charisma and infallible cold logic, I'm sure you can get a crowd of 200 strangers to follow your lead like lemmings.

I can just imagine the reaction of the GA in trying to process an oversold flight. GAs are usually so very patient and accommodating for outside the box requests from passengers when they're trying to manage an oversell stressful situation.

Last edited by SFOTurtle; Jul 3, 2012 at 8:28 pm
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Old Jul 3, 2012, 8:57 pm
  #72  
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In April, for every one person United gave an involuntary to, they had seven who took a voluntary bump.

Other airlines (delta) have as many as 28 voluntary to each involuntary.

There's no way everybody is going to stop doing it, it works fine as it is working now.
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Old Jul 4, 2012, 4:21 am
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by JFKSFOLAX_friend
I am elite so I would benefit from this idea...but, why should an elite get priority on the bump list? Shouldn't it just be ranked by who volunteers first? Not sure what elite status has to do with bumping.

A non-elite can volunteer when the gate opens and sit around for an hour and an elite can saunter up to the gate 15 minutes before boarding and jump the bump list? Not sure that is fair...
Originally Posted by Often1
Elites don't get priority. On UA, it's the GA's discretion, but there is a list based on fare paid for IDB purposes.

Anecdotally, originating pax, flying non-stop, single pax on PNR w. no checked bags get the jump on others. Easiest to rebook, generally happy to spend the night at home and no bags to pull.
Originally Posted by JFKSFOLAX_friend
Please re-read my post.

PHLGovFlyer said (s)he thought elite status should factor into the decision. I asked him/her why.

I didn't ask if UA currently considers elite status.
Yes, I really do think that elites should get priority for VDBs. We already get priority for seat assignments, E+, boarding, upgrades, baggage handling, check in, security, etc. etc. so I see nothing wrong with giving more frequent customers greater consideration in VDB opportunities. In fact, the current non-prioritized system requires me to hover around the gate area prior to the GA arriving and there's often a bit of a scrum to get in line when the announcement is made. Very cumbersome and open to a lot of gaming. It also means that I can't use the lounge membership that I've paid for. Bad form all around.

PMUA's system was very effective. There was a computerized list that could be accessed by any GA anywhere and any traveler could be added for any flight. No jostling in a line, no hovering by the gate. Simply get on the list, depart the lounge, show up at the gate about 10 minutes prior to boarding and speak to the GA. The list was already prioritized by status, however, the GA for a particular flight could use their discretion and take a lower or non-status pax if it made more sense operationally or cost wise. I was "jumped" by non-status pax on the VDB list several times as a 1k because (for example) I would have needed a hotel and the non-status pax did not.

Last edited by PHLGovFlyer; Jul 4, 2012 at 4:27 am
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Old Jul 4, 2012, 8:07 am
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by PHLGovFlyer
Yes, I really do think that elites should get priority for VDBs.
Seems good in theory, but in practice its not worth the time to start sorting out peoples status. If you have an oversell its going to be easier to just bump out the first few people rather then take everyones names sort them out then worry about trying to redo.
Personally I don't want to end up getting delayed due to the GA is sitting there getting rejected by the pax since the rebook isn't going to work and has to scroll through a list of potential people. This will hold if they want to help maintain ontime performance.
My last vdb I took I was bumped over an hour before departure with an oversell of 1 seat, this was before the inbound was even landed.
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Old Jul 4, 2012, 8:50 am
  #75  
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Should passengers refuse UA VDB offers in order to maximize oversale compensation?

Old way worked great. Sorted by status and flat comp. I remember being worried once because of a short connection. But I ran to hate and ga said we found you a new route. U want it? And here's your 400. They did all that while I was in the air. Use the computer! Sort the list by status! Be smart and efficient. Us had better on times than co. Why ruin good policies?
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