Should passengers refuse UA VDB offers in order to maximize oversale compensation?
Jul 2, 2012, 8:47 pm
#46
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The point is to extract as much possible from the airline as a group, and THEN sort out who gets what. Like this:
1. NOBODY volunteers.
2. Airline is forced to bump passengers involuntarily. Bumped passengers demand cash from the airline.
3. If the bumped passengers want to stay overnight, they just got $1300, not as a stupid travel voucher, but in CASH. If they don't or can't, then they should start making offers to other passengers who CAN get off the flight. Basically, turn around and begin paying people to get out of your way, using the cash that the airline just gave you.
4. Given that the bumped passengers are holding more in CASH than the airline was offering in stupid VOUCHERS, they can probably get SOMEONE to bite. Say someone bits for $800 cash. Great, the pax who wants to be on the flight pays him or her $800* and pockets the remaining $500.
* The pax who now must reschedule the flight would likely be subject to a change fee, unless he or she is an elite. But still, the increased amount of cash being thrown around should more than pay for all of these fees.
1. NOBODY volunteers.
2. Airline is forced to bump passengers involuntarily. Bumped passengers demand cash from the airline.
3. If the bumped passengers want to stay overnight, they just got $1300, not as a stupid travel voucher, but in CASH. If they don't or can't, then they should start making offers to other passengers who CAN get off the flight. Basically, turn around and begin paying people to get out of your way, using the cash that the airline just gave you.
4. Given that the bumped passengers are holding more in CASH than the airline was offering in stupid VOUCHERS, they can probably get SOMEONE to bite. Say someone bits for $800 cash. Great, the pax who wants to be on the flight pays him or her $800* and pockets the remaining $500.
* The pax who now must reschedule the flight would likely be subject to a change fee, unless he or she is an elite. But still, the increased amount of cash being thrown around should more than pay for all of these fees.
Careful. That Mendocino County stuff is quite strong.
This may be helpful.
Jul 2, 2012, 9:30 pm
#48
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,353
Once the passenger holding the ticket agrees to be paid by the bumped passenger, that passenger would walk up to the GA and say "I am NOT taking this flight!". The GA can't physically FORCE that passenger to get on the plane. What's the airline going to do at this point, go out with an empty seat?
I sympathize with the desire for better VDB compensation, but the fact of the matter is that this part is as free a market as their is in travel, and if the "value" for some of giving up their seat is only $200, and the airline predicts/realizes that, that's what the compensation will be.
Generally, cartels/unions/etc require a lot more organization, cooperation, legal backing, and even threat of force or other penalty to work than you're going to find at gate K31 of Anywhere International Airport. And no, if you're "scolding" the person who's volunteering, they're not the one who's going to come off as rude and inappropriate...
Jul 2, 2012, 10:04 pm
#49
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D) Volunteer early and receive the same maximum amount of compensation as later volunteers. I've had this happen on PMUA and new UA; most recently, the initial offer was $200 when I was offloaded and rebooked; final offer was $400 to the last folks taken; I was given the same $400 as them.
Jul 3, 2012, 3:08 am
#50
Join Date: Mar 2005
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I show up for my next flight and AGAIN UA is running at > 100% load factor. Any screw ups and there would be nowhere to move anyone again. NO SYMPATHY for UA! So do I believe that passengers should do everything in their power to maximize oversale compensation, take the CASH, and then trade later? You bet!
Jul 3, 2012, 9:26 am
#51
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Once the passenger holding the ticket agrees to be paid by the bumped passenger, that passenger would walk up to the GA and say "I am NOT taking this flight!". The GA can't physically FORCE that passenger to get on the plane. What's the airline going to do at this point, go out with an empty seat?
On a more personal note, I WAS already peeved at UA for what happened on my SFO-LHR flight. I had an aisle seat, and UA moved a husband and wife up into two middle seats a row apart (they were initially sitting at the back of the plane together). Now the wife had a lap child, and the husband wouldn't be there to help her take care of her (in this process, UA left the wife's mother in the back of the plane, basically taking a group of 3 people and putting them in 3 non adjacent seats, with 2 in one part of the plane and 1 in a completely separate section). Because UA was running the flight at 100% load factor, and apparently had already given the couple's original seats to someone else, there was nowhere to move anyone. I was faced with the choice of either keeping my aisle seat and having a lap child next to me while I was trying to sleep, or moving back into the husband's middle seat. I chose the latter.
I show up for my next flight and AGAIN UA is running at > 100% load factor. Any screw ups and there would be nowhere to move anyone again. NO SYMPATHY for UA! So do I believe that passengers should do everything in their power to maximize oversale compensation, take the CASH, and then trade later? You bet!
On a more personal note, I WAS already peeved at UA for what happened on my SFO-LHR flight. I had an aisle seat, and UA moved a husband and wife up into two middle seats a row apart (they were initially sitting at the back of the plane together). Now the wife had a lap child, and the husband wouldn't be there to help her take care of her (in this process, UA left the wife's mother in the back of the plane, basically taking a group of 3 people and putting them in 3 non adjacent seats, with 2 in one part of the plane and 1 in a completely separate section). Because UA was running the flight at 100% load factor, and apparently had already given the couple's original seats to someone else, there was nowhere to move anyone. I was faced with the choice of either keeping my aisle seat and having a lap child next to me while I was trying to sleep, or moving back into the husband's middle seat. I chose the latter.
I show up for my next flight and AGAIN UA is running at > 100% load factor. Any screw ups and there would be nowhere to move anyone again. NO SYMPATHY for UA! So do I believe that passengers should do everything in their power to maximize oversale compensation, take the CASH, and then trade later? You bet!
My guess is that if UA were bold about this, they ought to try offering $200+hotel+food vouchers. There's likely a couple of people who would be thrilled to have a paid night in London.
In the end, UA is a business, not a person. Being mean to a business doesn't matter. It's feelings won't be hurt.
Jul 3, 2012, 9:56 am
#52
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Once the passenger holding the ticket agrees to be paid by the bumped passenger, that passenger would walk up to the GA and say "I am NOT taking this flight!". The GA can't physically FORCE that passenger to get on the plane. What's the airline going to do at this point, go out with an empty seat?
On a more personal note, I WAS already peeved at UA for what happened on my SFO-LHR flight. I had an aisle seat, and UA moved a husband and wife up into two middle seats a row apart (they were initially sitting at the back of the plane together). Now the wife had a lap child, and the husband wouldn't be there to help her take care of her (in this process, UA left the wife's mother in the back of the plane, basically taking a group of 3 people and putting them in 3 non adjacent seats, with 2 in one part of the plane and 1 in a completely separate section). Because UA was running the flight at 100% load factor, and apparently had already given the couple's original seats to someone else, there was nowhere to move anyone. I was faced with the choice of either keeping my aisle seat and having a lap child next to me while I was trying to sleep, or moving back into the husband's middle seat. I chose the latter.
I show up for my next flight and AGAIN UA is running at > 100% load factor. Any screw ups and there would be nowhere to move anyone again. NO SYMPATHY for UA! So do I believe that passengers should do everything in their power to maximize oversale compensation, take the CASH, and then trade later? You bet!
On a more personal note, I WAS already peeved at UA for what happened on my SFO-LHR flight. I had an aisle seat, and UA moved a husband and wife up into two middle seats a row apart (they were initially sitting at the back of the plane together). Now the wife had a lap child, and the husband wouldn't be there to help her take care of her (in this process, UA left the wife's mother in the back of the plane, basically taking a group of 3 people and putting them in 3 non adjacent seats, with 2 in one part of the plane and 1 in a completely separate section). Because UA was running the flight at 100% load factor, and apparently had already given the couple's original seats to someone else, there was nowhere to move anyone. I was faced with the choice of either keeping my aisle seat and having a lap child next to me while I was trying to sleep, or moving back into the husband's middle seat. I chose the latter.
I show up for my next flight and AGAIN UA is running at > 100% load factor. Any screw ups and there would be nowhere to move anyone again. NO SYMPATHY for UA! So do I believe that passengers should do everything in their power to maximize oversale compensation, take the CASH, and then trade later? You bet!
Jul 3, 2012, 9:59 am
#53
Join Date: Mar 2005
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The problem with your idea is that if the goal is to hold out for $900, I'm going to agree to hold out and then take it at $850. Remember, you & I are competing for compensation. We're not both going to get it. So, I'm going to undercut you. That's what all air carriers aim for.
My guess is that if UA were bold about this, they ought to try offering $200+hotel+food vouchers. There's likely a couple of people who would be thrilled to have a paid night in London.
In the end, UA is a business, not a person. Being mean to a business doesn't matter. It's feelings won't be hurt.
My guess is that if UA were bold about this, they ought to try offering $200+hotel+food vouchers. There's likely a couple of people who would be thrilled to have a paid night in London.
In the end, UA is a business, not a person. Being mean to a business doesn't matter. It's feelings won't be hurt.
on memorial day i was flying IAD-YYZ and they had an oversell. she offered $400. i beat this girl to the podium. problem was, i was doing a connection. she said she would get back to me. girl behind me was going straight to YYZ, but couldn't take the later flight. she upped it to $500, and i said "just put me on the nonstop."
well, at the end of the day, we had a no show. but in the case of VDB's, i am in this for myself and not hoping to "hold out" with other people i will likely never see again.
Jul 3, 2012, 10:11 am
#54
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The problem with your idea is that if the goal is to hold out for $900, I'm going to agree to hold out and then take it at $850. Remember, you & I are competing for compensation. We're not both going to get it. So, I'm going to undercut you. That's what all air carriers aim for.
Jul 3, 2012, 10:14 am
#55
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If you are going to undercut me at $850, then what you should do is TELL ME your price. Both of us hold out so the airline is forced to give $900, they pay you $900, and you keep between $850-900 and give me somewhere between $0-50. A fair price, I think, is to split it in half. You keep $875 and stay behind with an extra $25, and I go on my way with an extra $25. See how that works?
Jul 3, 2012, 10:22 am
#56
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If you are going to undercut me at $850, then what you should do is TELL ME your price. Both of us hold out so the airline is forced to give $900, they pay you $900, and you keep between $850-900 and give me somewhere between $0-50. A fair price, I think, is to split it in half. You keep $875 and stay behind with an extra $25, and I go on my way with an extra $25. See how that works?
This thread is purely about your greed to maximize your money and getting 200+ other people to agree to hold out so you can maximize your profit. You set your price point and tell the airline I will stay for that amount. If it works great. If someone comes in cheaper, oh well, better luck next time.
And aren't IDB amounts already predefined based on certain factors? Good luck getting a VDB amount greater than the predefined IDB amount. As far as I know there are no customer defined price points for IDB. The airline IDB's you and gives you cash based on certain factors, end of story. No negotiating. They like the VDB as it is a voucher and they know there will be a certain amount of breakage (certs not used). Much cheaper for them.
Last edited by Baze; Jul 3, 2012 at 10:27 am
Jul 3, 2012, 10:31 am
#57
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Jul 3, 2012, 10:37 am
#58
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And we know everyone in the world tells the truth.
This thread is purely about your greed to maximize your money and getting 200+ other people to agree to hold out so you can maximize your profit. You set your price point and tell the airline I will stay for that amount. If it works great. If someone comes in cheaper, oh well, better luck next time.
This thread is purely about your greed to maximize your money and getting 200+ other people to agree to hold out so you can maximize your profit. You set your price point and tell the airline I will stay for that amount. If it works great. If someone comes in cheaper, oh well, better luck next time.
It could easily happen, if someone were to take charge, step up, and start writing down everyone's offers. It could also happen automatically, if technologies like Wi-Fi Direct become ubiquitous.
Jul 3, 2012, 10:46 am
#59
Join Date: Jun 2011
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... speaking of limited English, aren't cartels a creature of commercial/industrial/political suppliers of goods/services?
A retail consumer union, even one aiming for monopsony power, in an oligopolistic market where the suppliers are coddled by the government just isn't going to result in a cartel no matter how it's played.
Jul 3, 2012, 10:49 am
#60
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If I'm forced to introspect, my interests probably have more in common with United Airlines (that is, its shareholders) than they do with many of the random jerks onboard my plane.