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Old Jun 19, 12, 9:40 pm   #16
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: GRR, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chinatraderjmr View Post
Are you a 1K? If not forget it. Agents are not supposed to do this for anyone. A few old time 1K agents in HNL might "might" do this for you but I'm a 1K and would not waste my time trying to find an agent willing. It might take me 50 calls. If you not a 1K it might take you 200 and still I doubt you would get one

The few posts I've read on here w people that had it done were all 1K / GS And all very lucky

***sorry, I just saw you said you have no status. FORGET IT!! Your calls will never go to the handful of agents that might do this. Try the ANA tool. It will tell you not only what's avail but also what can be WL which can only be done w a long sell
Simply not true. I'm just a PG and have had long sell success on 3 out of 5 bookings this year and late last year. 2 of the 3 were for 2 tickets (wife and myself). 2 LH F trips, and 1 LH C.

BTW, you can not waitlist a long sell on LH.

Last edited by LufthansaFlyer; Jun 19, 12 at 9:56 pm.
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Old Jun 19, 12, 9:48 pm   #17
 
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Perhaps this is a silly question.. but what is the point of a long sell? If it's revenue tickets and not award, why not just book with LH directly?

Andrew
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Old Jun 19, 12, 9:48 pm   #18
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by exerda View Post
If I understand correctly, you're asking if UA can force open award inventory on the LH flight? There's not a chance of that.
Long sell is not forcing a reward seat to be opened. Its asking the airline (Lh in this case) to "sell" the seat to UA if its available, but not updated on 3rd party searches like ANA tool or UA's site. In one instance I called at noon and no seat was open. At 3p, I called and booked it. It's that fluid sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewket View Post
Perhaps this is a silly question.. but what is the point of a long sell? If it's revenue tickets and not award, why not just book with LH directly?

Andrew
Long sells are for award tickets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sykes View Post
Generally, though, I imagine that this technique will only work if the underlying award inventory does exist, but United's system is not showing it for some reason (hence the reference to phantom availability). If the inventory doesn't exist, there is nothing that a UA agent can really do for you, long sell or not.
This is EXACTLY IT!!

Last edited by iluv2fly; Jun 19, 12 at 11:29 pm. Reason: merge
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Old Jun 19, 12, 10:08 pm   #19
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FYI I wouldn't use the term Long Sell with UA. Long Sell in the SHARES world is selling a segment without looking at availability.

So instead of:

A LAXMUC-LH
N1Y1

It's:

0LH453Y19JUNLAXMUCHK1*LH

First thing I thought you were talking about was the long sell command above. I've never heard the term used otherwise.
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Old Jun 19, 12, 10:08 pm   #20
 
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This has also been referred to as a "manual sell" for award tickets and it was something PMUA agents could/would do for quite a long time up until a couple years ago when it was expressly forbidden by the airline. Manual or Long selling ran counter to UA's policy of Starnet blocking so agents were told not to do it and risked their jobs if they did. I expect that policy is still in force and you won't be able to find anyone to do it for you.
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Old Jun 19, 12, 10:09 pm   #21
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWMRamper View Post
FYI I wouldn't use the term Long Sell with UA. Long Sell in the SHARES world is selling a segment without looking at availability.

So instead of:

A LAXMUC-LH
N1Y1

It's:

0LH453Y19JUNLAXMUCHK1*LH

First thing I thought you were talking about was the long sell command above. I've never heard the term used otherwise.
What would you recommend we call it? I've always referred to it as a long sell and the agents understood what it meant. I would hate to confuse them if I can avoid it!

Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA1K4EVR View Post
This has also been referred to as a "manual sell" for award tickets and it was something PMUA agents could/would do for quite a long time up until a couple years ago when it was expressly forbidden by the airline. Manual or Long selling ran counter to UA's policy of Starnet blocking so agents were told not to do it and risked their jobs if they did. I expect that policy is still in force and you won't be able to find anyone to do it for you.
I know that US specifically forbids this activity. At least they claim they do but people have had success with US DM as well.

Last edited by iluv2fly; Jun 19, 12 at 11:29 pm. Reason: merge
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Old Jun 19, 12, 10:58 pm   #22
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PWMRamper View Post
FYI I wouldn't use the term Long Sell with UA. Long Sell in the SHARES world is selling a segment without looking at availability.

So instead of:

A LAXMUC-LH
N1Y1

It's:

0LH453Y19JUNLAXMUCHK1*LH

First thing I thought you were talking about was the long sell command above. I've never heard the term used otherwise.
Why would you "HK1" instead of a request command uch as "NN1"?
"Long sell" is the correct term, or "manual sell" I've heard/used as well.
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Old Jun 19, 12, 11:08 pm   #23
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LufthansaFlyer View Post
Long sell is not forcing a reward seat to be opened. Its asking the airline (Lh in this case) to "sell" the seat to UA if its available, but not updated on 3rd party searches like ANA tool or UA's site. In one instance I called at noon and no seat was open. At 3p, I called and booked it. It's that fluid sometimes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SEA1K4EVR View Post
This has also been referred to as a "manual sell" for award tickets and it was something PMUA agents could/would do for quite a long time up until a couple years ago when it was expressly forbidden by the airline. Manual or Long selling ran counter to UA's policy of Starnet blocking so agents were told not to do it and risked their jobs if they did. I expect that policy is still in force and you won't be able to find anyone to do it for you.
Thanks to you two and the others who've shed light on this phenomenon, but are we actually talking about two different things here? LF seems to be talking about a situation where the award flight is available but for whatever reason not appearing on a given site. It seems that SEA1K is talking about a situation where the award does appear as available on a site, but that Starnet blocking means/meant that UA would block an MP member from redeeming miles for it. So, if I understand this correctly, the OP and LH are just talking about an itinerary that UA will allow mileage redemption for, but that it will only appear if the CSR is specifically asked to search for the date and flights involved.

Do I have that right?

Regardless...LF, how have you been able to know to ask for )and somtimes get) such specific award itineraries, though? Do you simply go fishing, or is the LH or some other site helpful in indicating award availability even it can't be found at UA, NH, EF, whatever?
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Old Jun 19, 12, 11:17 pm   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LufthansaFlyer View Post
OP,

Disregard the opinions. Long sells are in fact possible and not difficult. Obviously LH has to have the inventory available in F or C or Y for that matter. What sometimes happens is that the Inventory is not updated on UA.com in real time.

Long sells are open to any mileage plus member, you dont have to have any minimum elite level. The key is, and always will be finding an agent willing to take the 30 seconds to submit the request to LH. My best luck has been with the HNL call center. They seem to be the most knowledgeable and most willing.

HNL call center usually comes on line midday US eastern time (at least thats been my experience). All my long sells have happened through HNL and most of the time I am calling between 12 & 3p US eastern time.

I'm PM you and I can try to help guide you on this. I just can guarantee that we'll get one! I've had about a 60-70% success rate this year finding F and C via long sells when the UA site did not show it.
60-70%? Forgive me for being dubious.

Do you see the NH space first, then call UA to manually book it if it doesn't show up on .bomb, or do you just request the space out of the blue, or perhaps do you see what M&M has made available to their own members, then try to get on those flights? (which would truly be an amazing, though time-intensive loophole if that worked).

You see the phantom O space all the time on .bomb, I assume. Have you ever checked to see if this matches with M&M member space?
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Old Jun 19, 12, 11:35 pm   #25
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastair View Post
Why would you "HK1" instead of a request command uch as "NN1"?
"Long sell" is the correct term, or "manual sell" I've heard/used as well.
I think HK1 forces a different response from the CRS than NN1, since HK1 states that 1 space is already confirmed while NN1 requests for 1 space. Also, with the segment showing HK1, you can end the record and, even if that segment eventually turns to "UN1," it stays in the PNR. With NN1, if no space is available, I don't think the segment gets recorded into the record.

Another thought, "UN1" might fool the next agent who is unaware of the situation. They might mistakenly assume that pax's space was lost due to schedule change, etc., because they theoretically had a confirmed seat (even though they actually never did).
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Old Jun 19, 12, 11:42 pm   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fastair View Post
Why would you "HK1" instead of a request command uch as "NN1"?
"Long sell" is the correct term, or "manual sell" I've heard/used as well.
I've had situations where when I used NN when booking a DL flight it didn't stick, whereas the HK did.
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Old Jun 19, 12, 11:47 pm   #27
 
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I've actually had this done before a couple of times. It's a forced request but not how one would think. Let's say LH123 shows F9 but 0 award seats.

I call agent, agent tells me there's no award seats in F. I ask her if she could put in a request, or "push" the request for an F award. She sends a request to LH and within 3-5 min she gets back a yes or no.

I had it done several times with LH, SQ and recently when I wanted to use miles on Air China for a C Class seat PEK-ULN. She sent the request and it came back open...on both legs, which showed closed on computer! She didn't open a seat, she just sent a request to the airline and the airline either approved it or updated it.

Now whether the individual airlines look at the inventory and decides to open a seat or it just needed to be updated, I don't know. I assumed the former. That someone received the request at say, LH, looked at the flight and decided to open a seat and approve the request.

Am I correct, Monsieur LufthansaFlyer?

UG
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Old Jun 20, 12, 7:01 am   #28
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LufthansaFlyer View Post
OP,

Disregard the opinions. Long sells are in fact possible and not difficult. Obviously LH has to have the inventory available in F or C or Y for that matter. What sometimes happens is that the Inventory is not updated on UA.com in real time.

Long sells are open to any mileage plus member, you dont have to have any minimum elite level. The key is, and always will be finding an agent willing to take the 30 seconds to submit the request to LH. My best luck has been with the HNL call center. They seem to be the most knowledgeable and most willing.

HNL call center usually comes on line midday US eastern time (at least thats been my experience). All my long sells have happened through HNL and most of the time I am calling between 12 & 3p US eastern time.

I'm PM you and I can try to help guide you on this. I just can guarantee that we'll get one! I've had about a 60-70% success rate this year finding F and C via long sells when the UA site did not show it.
I know your trying to help him and everything you say is true. I learned about long sells from someone like you. The problem is he has no Status. The HNL call center is for status Elites only. Used to be strictly 1K, now it's mixed but he will never get an agent in HNL. Since its COs policy not to allow that, every CO and off shore agent he gets will say no or not even know how to do it. Your giving good advice to a Platinum or 1K. Not a GM
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Old Jun 20, 12, 7:56 am   #29
 
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Posts: 49
Want to do a LONG SELL, but no AGENT can help

Well last night at 11 pm pst I got a Houston agent who ended up transferring me to some very knowledgeable gentleman in what he said was the Tampa Support center. We talked about flyertalk and how it gives people all this info, some good, some absurd.

Alas he attempted to do a NN request, but got a pop up that said LH award reservations can only be made from available inventory and that there was no way for him to override it.

He also said that a HK request was a no-no in this situation as it does not actually communicate with the other airline. It is used In a situation where the agent gets a verbal confirmation over the phone and he needs the PNR to match up with the flying carrier. You could say it is a blind hard coding. Used for example when a flight is canceled and UA calls up and asks the flying carrier what are you doing for the customer who's ticket we issued. If they say they put them on flight xxx in x class on x day, the UA agent does an HK to reflect this and mirror the changed PNR on the flying carrier.

RCK
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Old Jun 20, 12, 8:35 am   #30
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
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I never knew what this was until today. But just a week ago, I was looking for ORD-ATH award flights and no saver available, I had a non status friend, that booked a saver award after asking for a supervisor several times. He got ord-fra-ath both ways on a saver. I didn't believe him as the same day, I called and nada.

He does spend over 100K on the United Mileage Card.
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