Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > United Airlines | MileagePlus
Reload this Page >

Consolidated "Likelihood of clearing the wait list?" thread (International)

Consolidated "Likelihood of clearing the wait list?" thread (International)

Old Jun 26, 2012, 11:49 am
  #16  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: BWI
Posts: 1,782
Our return flight is Aug 5 from Milan-Newark.

I agree that the flight is probably much more business ticket oriented.

Just hate bugging my friend, especially since he's being so great and giving us his upgrade. He's busy and not a travel agent
farbster is offline  
Old Jun 26, 2012, 11:56 am
  #17  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,067
Originally Posted by star_world
Now that's more accurate. Are you honestly trying to convince us that the agent would be "well informed" because they give an answer that is only correct on a tiny portion of bookings? What a joke.

Sure the process breaks from time to time - but do you actually believe that outcome is more common than it working?
The quote was:

Agent says, "I've seen miles + $$$ re-deposited and planes leave without filling the BF seats..."

Nowhere did the agent say it never clears properly. In fact the agent did say the poster could try at the airport if it did not clear in advance. That suggests that it may clear in advance, or it may clear at the gate.

But the agent did inform the customer of the possibility of it not clearing properly, and BF seats flying empty, which is a real possibility as well.

That's why I disagreed with your categorization of the agent as misinformed. Seems this agent laid out various scenarios on the table, and knew her stuff. Further, she wasn't afraid to admit the system has its flaws, which we all know it does. I wish all agents would be this well informed and honest.
channa is offline  
Old Jun 26, 2012, 12:10 pm
  #18  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
Originally Posted by channa
The quote was:

Agent says, "I've seen miles + $$$ re-deposited and planes leave without filling the BF seats..."

Nowhere did the agent say it never clears properly. In fact the agent did say the poster could try at the airport if it did not clear in advance. That suggests that it may clear in advance, or it may clear at the gate.

But the agent did inform the customer of the possibility of it not clearing properly, and BF seats flying empty, which is a real possibility as well.

That's why I disagreed with your categorization of the agent as misinformed. Seems this agent laid out various scenarios on the table, and knew her stuff. Further, she wasn't afraid to admit the system has its flaws, which we all know it does. I wish all agents would be this well informed and honest.
How shocking that you're selective about your quoting and leaving out the piece that led to it being misleading by the agent:

I called in to United, and was told that, if my $$$+miles upgrade does not clear before the 24h window before takeoff, then I could try "at the airport" after checking in...
This is where the agent sent the OP in the wrong direction and created unnecessary worry. This might have gone unnoticed by you since the approach the agent took is actually quite like the approach you frequently take here The agent could have said "if your upgrade doesn't clear before the 24hr window you'll be moved to the airport standby list when you check in". That's the process, and that's what happens in the vast majority of cases. But by positioning it as a vague "you could try" the agent is giving the OP the belief that there isn't a process here and that they have very little chance of it working.

It's not actually surprising - the agent was probably a PMUA one and isn't entirely familiar with the process or how it works. Better and more training is required, as I've said frequently. So I genuinely do believe that the agent is misinformed - not because what they said to the OP is categorically false, but because it is highly misleading as it fails to refer to the actual process that is in place for clearing these types of upgrades.
star_world is offline  
Old Jun 26, 2012, 12:24 pm
  #19  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,067
Originally Posted by star_world
How shocking that you're selective about your quoting and leaving out the piece that led to it being misleading by the agent:
With all due respect, I did acknowledge that statement here:

Originally Posted by channa
In fact the agent did say the poster could try at the airport if it did not clear in advance.
I even used the word "try" like the agent used, which seems to be the word causing your consternation.


Originally Posted by star_world
This is where the agent sent the OP in the wrong direction and created unnecessary worry. This might have gone unnoticed by you since the approach the agent took is actually quite like the approach you frequently take here The agent could have said "if your upgrade doesn't clear before the 24hr window you'll be moved to the airport standby list when you check in". That's the process, and that's what happens in the vast majority of cases. But by positioning it as a vague "you could try" the agent is giving the OP the belief that there isn't a process here and that they have very little chance of it working.
My read of the "try" part wasn't as literal, and I don't believe that suggests there is no process. I took it to mean the agent suggested he may get it at the airport.

Your choice of words indicates the customer will be moved with certainty to an airport upgrade list. This sets the expectation for the system to work properly, which if often does not based on what we know and have seen.


Originally Posted by star_world
It's not actually surprising - the agent was probably a PMUA one and isn't entirely familiar with the process or how it works.
Or maybe the agent is very familiar with the process and realizes through day-to-day interaction how unreliable it is, and as such, does not want to over-promise something.


Originally Posted by star_world
Better and more training is required
I agree. But not for the agent, rather for the IT people who wrote this technology garbage that doesn't work right in the first place.


Originally Posted by star_world
So I genuinely do believe that the agent is misinformed - not because what they said to the OP is categorically false, but because it is highly misleading as it fails to refer to the actual process that is in place for clearing these types of upgrades.
But your proposed wording also misleads because it sets the expectation that the process actually works, while there are plenty of situations where it doesn't.

I would much rather have an agent alert me to potential pitfalls and weaknesses rather than use rosy-colored glasses to pretend all is well and send me into potential trouble.
channa is offline  
Old Jun 26, 2012, 12:33 pm
  #20  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Programs: UA 1K/*G, Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy BS, Hertz & Avis Pres
Posts: 653
PMCO 777 - Which Fare Bucket to Watch for Miles + Copay Upgrade?

I'm flying IAH-NRT on a 2-cabin PMCO 777. Except for this flight, the whole itinerary (DEN-IAH, NRT-MNL (NH)-GUM-HNL-SFO) is showing in "K" while the IAH-NRT flight only is showing "S". Which of the following fare buckets should I be watching in terms of an upgrade using miles + cash?

Thanks.

The flight currently shows:

Available Cabins: J9, JN9, C9, D9, Z4, ZN4, Y9, YN9, B9, M9, E9, U9, H9, HN9, Q9, V9, W9, S9, T9, L9, K9
NgatesSEA is offline  
Old Jun 26, 2012, 12:35 pm
  #21  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
Originally Posted by channa
But your proposed wording also misleads because it sets the expectation that the process actually works, while there are plenty of situations where it doesn't.

I would much rather have an agent alert me to potential pitfalls and weaknesses rather than use rosy-colored glasses to pretend all is well and send me into potential trouble.
Based on what sort of failure rate? Where is your threshold?

If 1 in 10 fails, then yes I'd probably agree with you. If 1 in 10,000 fails, then what?

I think the underlying issue here is your interpretation of how frequently these things happen vs. mine.

The world is full of examples of people being told to follow a certain set of instructions or a complex process when the underlying process isn't infallible. It's rare to see caveats placed around it to the extent that you believe should be.
star_world is offline  
Old Jun 26, 2012, 1:28 pm
  #22  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,067
Originally Posted by star_world
Based on what sort of failure rate? Where is your threshold?

If 1 in 10 fails, then yes I'd probably agree with you. If 1 in 10,000 fails, then what?
I think the failure rate is a lot closer to 1 in 10 than it is to 1 in 10,000.

If it were 1 in 10,000 we probably would have only seen 1 report on FT, if that. We've seen a lot more corroborating data points on this one. And that does not count the people who are not monitoring this possibility, not on FT, and/or simply not monitoring the systems and checks. So you have to multiply what FT posts and multiply it by some unknown factor to increase it.


Originally Posted by star_world
I think the underlying issue here is your interpretation of how frequently these things happen vs. mine.
Quite possible.


Originally Posted by star_world
The world is full of examples of people being told to follow a certain set of instructions or a complex process when the underlying process isn't infallible. It's rare to see caveats placed around it to the extent that you believe should be.
Right, but it's the degree and impact of the failure that's key. Once the failure rate increases, that's when the caveats and checks come into play.

Unfortunately, what we've seen since 3/3 is an unreasonable failure rate, IMO, of this and other processes, with consequences that have a large impact to the affected customers.

Any time an item happens enough that customers can corroborate it and know the issue happens as a known failure, it's probably happening too frequently.
channa is offline  
Old Jun 27, 2012, 8:18 am
  #23  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: JFK
Posts: 254
Gpu ewr-tlv

A 1k friend sponsored me for an upgrade EWR-TLV, I'm curently on a waiting list, this is what the available fares look like

J8, JN8, C7, D6, Z6, ZN6, P2, PN2, R0, RN0, IN0, I0, Y9, YN9, B9, M9, E0, U0, H0, HN0, Q0, V0, W0, S0, T0, L0, K0, G0, N0, XN0, X0

Is there any way to tell what the odds are of getting it or is there any advice to share?
airfly56 is offline  
Old Jun 27, 2012, 8:19 am
  #24  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
Originally Posted by airfly56
A 1k friend sponsored me for an upgrade EWR-TLV, I'm curently on a waiting list, this is what the available fares look like

J8, JN8, C7, D6, Z6, ZN6, P2, PN2, R0, RN0, IN0, I0, Y9, YN9, B9, M9, E0, U0, H0, HN0, Q0, V0, W0, S0, T0, L0, K0, G0, N0, XN0, X0

Is there any way to tell what the odds are of getting it or is there any advice to share?
What date are you travelling?
star_world is offline  
Old Jun 27, 2012, 8:21 am
  #25  
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: JFK
Posts: 254
Originally Posted by star_world
What date are you travelling?
tomorrow
airfly56 is offline  
Old Jun 27, 2012, 8:26 am
  #26  
Suspended
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ORD / DUB / LHR
Programs: UA 1K MM; BA Silver; Marriott Plat
Posts: 8,243
Originally Posted by airfly56
tomorrow
Not sure if you're on flight 84 or 90 but I'd say your chances are good for either flight. 90 is far less busy by the way. You need to make sure that you do end up on the airport upgrade list when you check in - try OLCI, and if you can't check in online (I've never flown to TLV on UA so not sure if it lets you check in or if you have to do this at the airport) then make sure you get to the airport early. Make sure you are on the list after checking in by checking the mobile site - if you're not on the list you won't get upgraded.
star_world is offline  
Old Jun 27, 2012, 8:31 am
  #27  
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: USA
Programs: UA 1K/*G, Hyatt Globalist, Bonvoy BS, Hertz & Avis Pres
Posts: 653
Originally Posted by star_world
Not sure if you're on flight 84 or 90 but I'd say your chances are good for either flight. 90 is far less busy by the way. You need to make sure that you do end up on the airport upgrade list when you check in - try OLCI, and if you can't check in online (I've never flown to TLV on UA so not sure if it lets you check in or if you have to do this at the airport) then make sure you get to the airport early. Make sure you are on the list after checking in by checking the mobile site - if you're not on the list you won't get upgraded.
star_world, what do you look at to determine this? I'm not questioning your conclusion, rather, I am completely uninformed at how best to evaluate upgrade chances and would like to know more. Thanks.
NgatesSEA is offline  
Old Jun 27, 2012, 8:34 am
  #28  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: United 1K MM, SPG Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 7
I would call - and continue to call

Originally Posted by ryman554
Only call if you see R availability and you have not cleared.

Best bet there is to request an upgrade, have them say that they see availability and ask you how you want to support it, and then mention that you have an UG already requested....
I would call and continue to call until you get a Rep that understands the issues.
I was in the same position for my ORD-FRA upgrade as of yesterday. Flight had over 22 business seats for sale, 25 hours before the flight, but my system wide did not clear. In speaking with agents this week, most were not helpful at all and told me that if it didn't clear before the 24-hour window, it would be handled at the airport.

I called in thi smorning - about 26-hours before the flight and connected with a very helpful agent out of Chicago. She had come clean stating that there is a known issue with the waitlist clearing in advance and that corporate had communicated to the 1K agents vis e-mail that if a 1K person called in and was waiting for an upgrade - they would be clearded to push it through if it was in a four (4) day window. She had to include a supervisor in the process, but they sucessfully upgraded my seat.

She went on to explain to me that a lot of 1K folks were missing their upgrades as the system was failing to do it automatically, as it is supposed to.

So my advice is to call and call until you find someone who can help! Not all agents are created equal!
Magnolia3237 is offline  
Old Jun 27, 2012, 8:49 am
  #29  
formerly FrequentFlyKid
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
Programs: United Global Services, Marriott Bonvoy Ambassador, National Executive Elite
Posts: 981
Quote of the Decade

Originally Posted by Magnolia3237
Not all agents are created equal!
This is the best quote I've read on this entire forum in the past 10 years.
In The 216 is offline  
Old Jun 27, 2012, 9:18 am
  #30  
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Programs: United 1K MM, SPG Lifetime Platinum
Posts: 7
I would call and continue to call . . .

[QUOTE=EliteNewbie;18703788]Details:

Currently MP Platinum for 2012
I used miles + $$$ for an international upgrade to Business First.

I'm currently wait-listed for the upgrade (I have no global upgrades)

bucket status is J and C fare class remaining

flight is 5 days away

When will I know if I get one of the last remaining seats?
Should I call to skirt the system glitches or take my chances at the airport day-of?

I would call and continue to call until you get a Rep that understands the issues.
I was in the same position for my ORD-FRA upgrade as of yesterday. Flight had over 22 business seats for sale, 25 hours before the flight, but my system wide did not clear. In speaking with agents this week, most were not helpful at all and told me that if it didn't clear before the 24-hour window, it would be handled at the airport.

I called in this morning - about 26-hours before the flight and connected with a very helpful agent out of Chicago. She had come clean stating that there is a known issue with the waitlist clearing in advance and that corporate had communicated to the 1K agents vis e-mail that if a 1K person called in and was waiting for an upgrade - they would be clearded to push it through if it was in a four (4) day window. She had to include a supervisor in the process, but they sucessfully upgraded my seat.

She went on to explain to me that a lot of 1K folks were missing their upgrades as the system was failing to do it automatically, as it is supposed to.

So my advice is to call and call until you find someone who can help! Not all agents are created equal!
Magnolia3237 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.