Is this back-to-back ticketing?
Jun 1, 2012, 5:42 pm
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego
Programs: UA: Premier 1K AA: Executive Platinum
Posts: 354
Is this back-to-back ticketing?
Live in SAN trying to go to LAS 2 days in a row.
There is a UA fare leaving SAN Monday morning coming back Tues evening for $140
Then there is a US fare leaving LAS Monday evenng coming back Tues morning.
I know that usually back-to-back would mean that you are doing 2 tickets but use different legs of those tickets for different returns. Since they are two separate carriers though... Idk. What say you?
The only reason I even care is that they will see it cuz of the miles.
There is a UA fare leaving SAN Monday morning coming back Tues evening for $140
Then there is a US fare leaving LAS Monday evenng coming back Tues morning.
I know that usually back-to-back would mean that you are doing 2 tickets but use different legs of those tickets for different returns. Since they are two separate carriers though... Idk. What say you?
The only reason I even care is that they will see it cuz of the miles.
Jun 1, 2012, 6:02 pm
#3
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego
Programs: UA: Premier 1K AA: Executive Platinum
Posts: 354
Well - obviously the $140 UA fare would require me to stay at least one day (since it IS more expensive if I book the 2 trips separately).
However, since these are two separate companies, I don't see how any minimum stay requirement could be imposed. I looked at COC and MP Rules, and there is nothing. I called UA and they looked into it, and all they found was rules applicable to UA ticket stock. They said it would be ok to book it... We shall see
However, since these are two separate companies, I don't see how any minimum stay requirement could be imposed. I looked at COC and MP Rules, and there is nothing. I called UA and they looked into it, and all they found was rules applicable to UA ticket stock. They said it would be ok to book it... We shall see
Jun 1, 2012, 6:22 pm
#4
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Escondido, CA
Programs: US Chairman no more. AA EXP
Posts: 682
Well - obviously the $140 UA fare would require me to stay at least one day (since it IS more expensive if I book the 2 trips separately).
However, since these are two separate companies, I don't see how any minimum stay requirement could be imposed. I looked at COC and MP Rules, and there is nothing. I called UA and they looked into it, and all they found was rules applicable to UA ticket stock. They said it would be ok to book it... We shall see
However, since these are two separate companies, I don't see how any minimum stay requirement could be imposed. I looked at COC and MP Rules, and there is nothing. I called UA and they looked into it, and all they found was rules applicable to UA ticket stock. They said it would be ok to book it... We shall see
Jun 1, 2012, 7:18 pm
#5
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: Santa Cruz, CA USA
Programs: AA, UA, WN, HH, Marriott
Posts: 7,290
If you book on 2 different airlines, it won't matter. You might not want to collect UA miles on the US ticket.
The way the rule is often worded is that you have to use the flight "coupons" (as they used to be called with paper tickets) in numerical order. If you bought two UA tickets as described, you would not be using them in numerical order and technically that would be a violation.
The way the rule is often worded is that you have to use the flight "coupons" (as they used to be called with paper tickets) in numerical order. If you bought two UA tickets as described, you would not be using them in numerical order and technically that would be a violation.
Jun 1, 2012, 7:27 pm
#6
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Bay Area, CA
Programs: UA Plat 2MM; AS MVP Gold 75K
Posts: 35,068
If you book on 2 different airlines, it won't matter. You might not want to collect UA miles on the US ticket.
The way the rule is often worded is that you have to use the flight "coupons" (as they used to be called with paper tickets) in numerical order. If you bought two UA tickets as described, you would not be using them in numerical order and technically that would be a violation.
The way the rule is often worded is that you have to use the flight "coupons" (as they used to be called with paper tickets) in numerical order. If you bought two UA tickets as described, you would not be using them in numerical order and technically that would be a violation.
If he bought them all from one carrier, he'd still be using the coupons in numerical order.
Ticket 1, Coupon 1
Ticket 2, Coupon 1
Ticket 1, Coupon 2
Ticket 2, Coupon 2
If you couldn't start a new ticket while another ticket were in progress, any end-on-end, or trip within a trip would be a violation. And typically those are fine.
The key is if he's buying tickets to circumvent the minimum stay requirement, which he technically is, but with two different carriers, it makes it difficult to prove and questionable to enforce.
In this market, I would double check to make sure there truly is a minimum stay, or if you're just running into an availability issue that only works right on these flights. It's possible these are one-way fares, as many in this market are. If they're one ways, there is absolutely no concern about a violation, since there's no min stay to violate.
Jun 1, 2012, 7:42 pm
#7
Original Poster
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: San Diego
Programs: UA: Premier 1K AA: Executive Platinum
Posts: 354
If he bought them all from one carrier, he'd still be using the coupons in numerical order.
Ticket 1, Coupon 1
Ticket 2, Coupon 1
Ticket 1, Coupon 2
Ticket 2, Coupon 2
If you couldn't start a new ticket while another ticket were in progress, any end-on-end, or trip within a trip would be a violation. And typically those are fine.
The key is if he's buying tickets to circumvent the minimum stay requirement, which he technically is, but with two different carriers, it makes it difficult to prove and questionable to enforce.
In this market, I would double check to make sure there truly is a minimum stay, or if you're just running into an availability issue that only works right on these flights. It's possible these are one-way fares, as many in this market are. If they're one ways, there is absolutely no concern about a violation, since there's no min stay to violate.
Ticket 1, Coupon 1
Ticket 2, Coupon 1
Ticket 1, Coupon 2
Ticket 2, Coupon 2
If you couldn't start a new ticket while another ticket were in progress, any end-on-end, or trip within a trip would be a violation. And typically those are fine.
The key is if he's buying tickets to circumvent the minimum stay requirement, which he technically is, but with two different carriers, it makes it difficult to prove and questionable to enforce.
In this market, I would double check to make sure there truly is a minimum stay, or if you're just running into an availability issue that only works right on these flights. It's possible these are one-way fares, as many in this market are. If they're one ways, there is absolutely no concern about a violation, since there's no min stay to violate.
I called in again and they said it was fine on this particular fare. No min stay requirement as is. As for the different carriers: there is nothing, not in UA's COC and not in US's COC, nor in the MP or Dividend Miles Rules that says anything about this not being allowed. I think that I will do it.
And screw that, hell yeah I'm gonna collect my miles for it!
Jun 1, 2012, 8:07 pm
#8
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco/Sydney
Programs: UA 1K/MM, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Something, IHG Gold, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 8,155
I called in again and they said it was fine on this particular fare. No min stay requirement as is. As for the different carriers: there is nothing, not in UA's COC and not in US's COC, nor in the MP or Dividend Miles Rules that says anything about this not being allowed. I think that I will do it.
RULE 6 TICKETS
J) Prohibited Practices:
3) The use of Flight Coupons from two or more different Tickets issued at round trip fares for the purpose of circumventing applicable tariff rules (such as advance purchase/minimum stay requirements) commonly referred to as “Back-to-Back Ticketing” is prohibited by UA.
J) Prohibited Practices:
3) The use of Flight Coupons from two or more different Tickets issued at round trip fares for the purpose of circumventing applicable tariff rules (such as advance purchase/minimum stay requirements) commonly referred to as “Back-to-Back Ticketing” is prohibited by UA.
Aug 16, 2012, 6:32 pm
#9
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: UA,WN,AA,DL, B6
Posts: 4,168
Back To Back Ticketing
If I fly into EWR Saturday AM, but fly another flight out of LGA, then return
to LGA, and then complete my roundtrip from EWR, is this considered back to back ticketing since I am using different airports.
to LGA, and then complete my roundtrip from EWR, is this considered back to back ticketing since I am using different airports.
Aug 16, 2012, 6:47 pm
#11
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: UA,WN,AA,DL, B6
Posts: 4,168
This routing is CLE-EWR-LGA-CLE-EWR-CLE. One time I did CLE-EWR-FLL-EWR-CLE. Flying into EWR Saturday AM, then taking EWR-FLL latter in the day and returning FLL-EWR Monday, then back to CLE. These are seperate tickets but is this still not back to back ticketing.
Aug 16, 2012, 9:26 pm
#12
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: Homosassa, FL & Ringwood, NJ -UA-G(Lifetime); SPG-Plat (Lifetime)
Posts: 6,120
It would be insane to say that during that month, UA would not allow me to make side trips to take care of other business and then complete my return to EWR. UA would be out of business with these types of rules. This is not back to back ticketing.
Aug 16, 2012, 9:50 pm
#13
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: San Francisco/Sydney
Programs: UA 1K/MM, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Something, IHG Gold, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 8,155
Suppose my company sends me EWR-LAX (spend a month on business)-EWR.
It would be insane to say that during that month, UA would not allow me to make side trips to take care of other business and then complete my return to EWR. UA would be out of business with these types of rules. This is not back to back ticketing.
It would be insane to say that during that month, UA would not allow me to make side trips to take care of other business and then complete my return to EWR. UA would be out of business with these types of rules. This is not back to back ticketing.
Aug 16, 2012, 10:28 pm
#14
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,933
Suppose my company sends me EWR-LAX (spend a month on business)-EWR.
It would be insane to say that during that month, UA would not allow me to make side trips to take care of other business and then complete my return to EWR. UA would be out of business with these types of rules. This is not back to back ticketing.
It would be insane to say that during that month, UA would not allow me to make side trips to take care of other business and then complete my return to EWR. UA would be out of business with these types of rules. This is not back to back ticketing.
"Back to Back" is a guy that books "A" to "B" to "A" for say a two week turn around on a 7 day (minimum stay) restricted fare. Then he books "B" to "A" to "B" returning to each airport a few days after arriving. People used to do this all the time until they put a stop to it and messed with your MP account plus charged the passenger full fare if they got caught.
A guy is a business man and needs to be in EWR every other weekend for one day. Example--- LAX-EWR-LAX with a 2 week stay on a round trip ticket to get the reduced fare. One day after arriving in EWR he uses a separate ticket back to LAX with a return to EWR a few week later & gets the same discounted fare.
Arriving in EWR and flying anywhere else is perfectly O.K. In fact if a guy got caught once doing a "Back to Back" he could try & say that an emergency came up, but having two confirmed reservations in advance would blow that theory all to smithereens.
Probably wouldn't get caught once or twice, but a pattern will most likely be discovered by MP eventually.
Aug 18, 2012, 11:51 pm
#15
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: CLE
Programs: UA,WN,AA,DL, B6
Posts: 4,168
If you do the Back to Back using different airlines then this should be OK
Example
Fly CLE-LGA Sat AM UA
Fly LGA-CLE Sat PM DL
Fly CLE-LGA Mon AM DL to get to NYC to get my UA return
FLY LGA-CLE Mon PM UA
This is Back to Back ticketing but not legal if it was UA. Since it is different airlines
UA and AA won't be aware of this, only God knows. The reason I would do this is I get 2 full days in NYC, but no hotel bills. I did this one time many years ago on CO when they had the EWR weekend special of $79:00 RT. I thought when I to book the EWR-CLE RT to avoild the Sat night stay the reservation system would not take this buit it did.
Example
Fly CLE-LGA Sat AM UA
Fly LGA-CLE Sat PM DL
Fly CLE-LGA Mon AM DL to get to NYC to get my UA return
FLY LGA-CLE Mon PM UA
This is Back to Back ticketing but not legal if it was UA. Since it is different airlines
UA and AA won't be aware of this, only God knows. The reason I would do this is I get 2 full days in NYC, but no hotel bills. I did this one time many years ago on CO when they had the EWR weekend special of $79:00 RT. I thought when I to book the EWR-CLE RT to avoild the Sat night stay the reservation system would not take this buit it did.