Oct 1, 2013, 3:03 pm
Last edit by: Ari
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• • • • •
[Please post
NLY status updates and relevant Q&A here.]Plaintiff: George Lagen, on behalf of himself and all others similarly situated
Defendant: United Continental Holdings, Inc. and United Airlines, Inc.
Filed In The United States District Court For The Northern District Of Illinois Eastern Division
Case No. 1:12-cv-04056
Filed: 05/24/2012
Judge Harry D. Leinenweber
Magistrate Judge Young B. Kim
Proposed class: All persons, as of midnight, December 31, 2011, who were members of the Million Mile Program under United Airlines’ Mileage Plus frequent flyer program.
Filings/rulings can be found on www.pacer.gov (requires registration)
12 June 2012 - Amended Class Action Complaint filed
Spring 2013 - Court denies United's request to close case
Spring 2013 - Plaintiff files for suit to become a class action, United asks Judge before he decides if there could be limited discovery (which typically happens after case becomes class-action). Judge allows it.
August 2013 - Depositions/Limited Discovery completed and transcripts were handed over to the court.
22 October 2013 - Pursuant to an order of the Court, both sides filed cross-motions for summary judgment:
Plaintiff contends that he is a United pre-merger Million Miler, that United promised Million Miler fliers certain lifetime benefits on its web site, including two regional upgrades every year and Premier Executive status, which provided certain delineated benefits (e.g., 100% mileage bonus). Plaintiff cites deposition testimony from United stating "lifetime" means: "as long as they were really able to fly … as long as someone is coming on a plane and alive and capable of flying." Plaintiff concludes by stating that United has breached its contract with its pre-merger Million Miler fliers by reducing the lifetime benefits they were promised.
United contends in its motion that Million Miler is part of the MileagePlus program, that United reserved the right to make any changes it wishes to the MileagePlus program, and that the changes it made that plaintiff now complains of are therefore contractually permissible. United does not admit, and does not address, the "lifetime" benefit statements that it made on its website.
23 January 2014 - Judge denies Plaintiff's motion for summary judgment and grants United's cross-motion for summary judgment. Judgment entered in favor of United.
The Judge begins his Opinion with a quote from Job: “The Lord giveth and the Lord taketh away” and then holds that Plaintiff has not produced any evidence that UA made him an offer to participate in a separate MM program.
The Court noted that: “The sum total of his evidence is vague references to ‘electronic and written correspondence’ from United, which, in both instances postdates his qualification as a Million Mile flyer and was not directed to him; and a 1997 Newsletter from United announcing the creation of the program he could not remember receiving. However the card he did receive from United, admitting him to MililionMile Flyer Program, shows that his new status is clearly a status within the Mileage Plus Frequent Flyer Program, as does the form letters United sent to applicants advising them of their admission to the MillionMile Flyer program. In fact, Plaintiff in his Complaint alleges that the MillionMile Flyer program was part of the Mileage Plus program. He has not produced any document that comes close to substantiating that the programs were separate and distinct."
Bottom line: The Court agreed with United's position that the Plaintiff had not proved the existence of a separate contract between itself and the Million Milers.
Full decision: http://media.wandr.me/MMerOpinion.pdf
20 February 2014
Plaintiff filed a notice of appeal of the trial court's decision. The record on appeal is due by March 13, 2014.
Appeal docs available at:
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-Appeal-filed-2-20-14.pdf
- http://media.wandr.me/UAL-MM-letter-of-appeal.pdf
8 September 2014
Oral arguments were heard by a three judge panel. Links to the original MP3 of the Court's recording and also some transcription can be found around post 2350 and for several more following that.
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/23496499-post2361.html
22 December 2014
Affirmed over a dissent.
http://media.ca7.uscourts.gov/cgi-bin/rssExec.pl?Submit=Display&Path=Y2014/D12-22/C:14-1375:J:Wood:aut:T:fnOp:N:1474449:S:0
Million Miler Sues United [Judgment for UA Jan 2014] Judgment Affirmed Dec 2014
May 2, 2017, 9:41 am
#2536
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
I wanted to share this with everyone:
https://seekingalpha.com/news/326218...r=1#email_link
Almost every article that was written about the lawsuit, there are pre-merger United Million Milers voicing their frustrations in the comments section. It either is a single person under different names OR there are many of us trying to have our voices heard. I have to ask: Are most people are afraid of retaliation for complaining?
Many people on FT have left comments about me wasting my time and money to hold United accountable. That it was in the Terms and Conditions of Mileage Plus and it is what it is. We can argue for the next 100 years, but I will not debate on here.
Throughout the entire process I remained quiet and made this about United and the Million Mile Flyers. I am the one who pulled out his checkbook and fought for what I felt was the right thing and I have no regrets. None. I would have done it again. And, I will add, I did not sue for money.
The decision of the court will effect many many people outside of United Airlines and the Million Mile Flyers. Any company that promises "lifetime" after getting customers to jump through hoops and only to have the company decide, "we said lifetime, but we didn't really mean lifetime." Horrible.
A contract is when two parties are in agreement. There has to be TRUST. When one is told if you fly 1,000,000 actual miles you will get "lifetime" benefits and this is said year after year, the flyer trusts United will stick to their promises. I am typing this and I can't believe I have to fight and to defend this position.
In one of United's filings, on average, it takes TEN years of flying to get to Million Mile Flyer. For me, that equates to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Many MMFs trusted United would act in a moral way. I would rather them said, "You will receive LIFETIME* benefits,"
(*lifetime doesn't mean your lifetime, it means when we decide to change it)
Look many of us on here are passionate travellers. Many of us are AV Geeks, we love flying, we love the art of travel, we are citizens of the world. For a period of a couple of decades, before the merger, we supported United through bankruptcy, 9/11, etc. and United, in turn, took care of us. It's like a betrayal of sorts - you can see it all over the internet.
There are questions from fellow FTers which I will address later. If any one has additional questions, please feel free to ask. Best wishes to everyone.
https://seekingalpha.com/news/326218...r=1#email_link
Almost every article that was written about the lawsuit, there are pre-merger United Million Milers voicing their frustrations in the comments section. It either is a single person under different names OR there are many of us trying to have our voices heard. I have to ask: Are most people are afraid of retaliation for complaining?
Many people on FT have left comments about me wasting my time and money to hold United accountable. That it was in the Terms and Conditions of Mileage Plus and it is what it is. We can argue for the next 100 years, but I will not debate on here.
Throughout the entire process I remained quiet and made this about United and the Million Mile Flyers. I am the one who pulled out his checkbook and fought for what I felt was the right thing and I have no regrets. None. I would have done it again. And, I will add, I did not sue for money.
The decision of the court will effect many many people outside of United Airlines and the Million Mile Flyers. Any company that promises "lifetime" after getting customers to jump through hoops and only to have the company decide, "we said lifetime, but we didn't really mean lifetime." Horrible.
A contract is when two parties are in agreement. There has to be TRUST. When one is told if you fly 1,000,000 actual miles you will get "lifetime" benefits and this is said year after year, the flyer trusts United will stick to their promises. I am typing this and I can't believe I have to fight and to defend this position.
In one of United's filings, on average, it takes TEN years of flying to get to Million Mile Flyer. For me, that equates to hundreds of thousands of dollars. Many MMFs trusted United would act in a moral way. I would rather them said, "You will receive LIFETIME* benefits,"
(*lifetime doesn't mean your lifetime, it means when we decide to change it)
Look many of us on here are passionate travellers. Many of us are AV Geeks, we love flying, we love the art of travel, we are citizens of the world. For a period of a couple of decades, before the merger, we supported United through bankruptcy, 9/11, etc. and United, in turn, took care of us. It's like a betrayal of sorts - you can see it all over the internet.
There are questions from fellow FTers which I will address later. If any one has additional questions, please feel free to ask. Best wishes to everyone.
Last edited by UrbaneGent; May 2, 2017 at 9:57 am
May 2, 2017, 9:49 am
#2537
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago: ORD, MDW
Programs: United Million Mile Flyer, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold, DL, AA WN
Posts: 514
Thanks.
I just sent an email to the committee and got a confirmation that it was received.
I just sent an email to the committee and got a confirmation that it was received.
May 2, 2017, 9:53 am
#2538
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago: ORD, MDW
Programs: United Million Mile Flyer, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold, DL, AA WN
Posts: 514
Also. After reading your letter, I changed my FT entry from "United Million Miler" to "United Million Mile Flyer".
I appreciate the difference in just what one word can represent.
I appreciate the difference in just what one word can represent.
May 2, 2017, 10:19 am
#2539
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
Our words and how we put them together is an art in and of itself.
May 2, 2017, 10:37 am
#2540
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Programs: UA Plat 2MM. DL Plat, AS MVP
Posts: 12,751
I'm curious.... While I agree in principle that this is important, if UA were to grant us the former benefits, would they be useful?
Two confirmed regional upgrades a year, right? Great in theory. But UA has moved to a system where advanced confirmed upgrades rarely exist!
What are the other benefits that would be helpful?
Two confirmed regional upgrades a year, right? Great in theory. But UA has moved to a system where advanced confirmed upgrades rarely exist!
What are the other benefits that would be helpful?
May 2, 2017, 11:14 am
#2541
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SEA/YVR/BLI
Programs: UA "Lifetime" Gold, AS MVPG100K, OW Emerald, HH Lifetime Diamond, IC Plat, Marriott Gold, Hertz Gold
Posts: 9,488
I'm curious.... While I agree in principle that this is important, if UA were to grant us the former benefits, would they be useful?
Two confirmed regional upgrades a year, right? Great in theory. But UA has moved to a system where advanced confirmed upgrades rarely exist!
What are the other benefits that would be helpful?
Two confirmed regional upgrades a year, right? Great in theory. But UA has moved to a system where advanced confirmed upgrades rarely exist!
What are the other benefits that would be helpful?
UA successfully defended itself in court by hiding behind the skirts of the Airline Deregulation Act, so to speak, as both the two judges in the majority and the dissenting judge pointed out in more elegant words.
IMHO that's the overriding issue worth exploring, not necessarily through more regulation, but through making airlines more accountable to meet the same civil-law requirements as other businesses.
Last edited by Fredd; May 2, 2017 at 12:20 pm Reason: editing
May 2, 2017, 12:09 pm
#2542
Join Date: Jul 2013
Programs: DYKWIA, But I'm a "Diamond Guest" UA 1K/2MM
Posts: 2,250
George,
You are my hero. There are a lot of us thanking you for sticking up for what's fair and right on your and our behalf.
Thanks!
You are my hero. There are a lot of us thanking you for sticking up for what's fair and right on your and our behalf.
Thanks!
May 2, 2017, 1:59 pm
#2543
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Chicago USA
Programs: *A Junkie, SQ PPS, Skywards Gold, 2 Million Mile Flyer;*wood LT Plat, BA MM
Posts: 1,762
I'm curious.... While I agree in principle that this is important, if UA were to grant us the former benefits, would they be useful?
Two confirmed regional upgrades a year, right? Great in theory. But UA has moved to a system where advanced confirmed upgrades rarely exist!
What are the other benefits that would be helpful?
Two confirmed regional upgrades a year, right? Great in theory. But UA has moved to a system where advanced confirmed upgrades rarely exist!
What are the other benefits that would be helpful?
Everything matters. Even the smallest little thing can have a huge impact. Will two upgrades make or break me? No. However, it's two upgrades now...later, it will be something bigger. Then other companies will start going back on their promises to consumers. Case in point, ATT promised unlimited data for life. This was before the iPhone came along and usage rates soared. ATT tried to backpedal and cancel this specific program, it's been a mess for them.
This is what I mean by everything matters.
The judge said it best - that United admitted to consumer fraud:
United’s defense here is that the airline’s very best customers—its Million Mile Flyers—should have known better than to believe United’s promise of “lifetime” benefits. This defense amounts to a confession of consumer fraud. United could not—honestly and legally—promise “lifetime” benefits while reserving the right to cancel its promise at any time and for any reason.
Pre-merger United placed their MMFs as Premier Executive, the second tier in the former Mileage Plus program. Continental OnePass flyers (and other airlines including AA) were at the third tier for 1MM mark (note: bonus miles, class of service, credit card charges and other things were were applied to their million miler total etc.), equal to the former "Premier" status. This is why United's MMF program was more valuable. Also, remember, OnePass members had many deals going on throughout CO's life, and handful of them, for flying 300K or so (I don't know the exact number), are now lifetime Global Services (correction: lifetime 1K), which is at what, 4 million mile mark now? Flyers from OnePass went to Smisek right before or after the merger concerned about their position and he promised them he wouldn't downgrade them (it's in this thread).
Smisek and his team upgraded all the CO million milers a tier and then downgraded the pre-merger UA MMFs. My opinion: this little group should have been placed in post-merger United's "Platinum" status, as promised.
Why? It's what was "guaranteed lifetime" and because everything matters. Holding companies to their promises is part of having a healthy economy. Think about all the promises or pledges companies make. We as consumers TRUST these pledges/promises will be honored.
As the judge said, "United admitted to consumer fraud". This is the culture Smisek has created, leaving a legacy of arrogance, deception and blatant lies. All these wonderful qualities passed on to Munoz and the current BOD.
Last edited by UrbaneGent; May 3, 2017 at 11:54 am
May 2, 2017, 2:55 pm
#2544
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,769
The pmCO Infinite Elites were made Lifetime 1Ks, not GS.
May 2, 2017, 2:57 pm
#2545
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Near SEA
Programs: UA MM, AS MVPG75K, Marriott Lifetime Gold
Posts: 7,969
Surprised this is still going after all these years...
May 2, 2017, 6:49 pm
#2546
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Hawai'i Nei
Programs: Au: UA, Marriott, Hilton; GE
Posts: 7,128
UrbaneGent: Thank you for your service.
BTW, did you ever solicit the help of Corboy & Demetrio? If so, what was their response?
BTW, did you ever solicit the help of Corboy & Demetrio? If so, what was their response?
May 2, 2017, 7:01 pm
#2547
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 14,997
ATT and United operate under different rules and regulatory regimes - just sayin'.
May 2, 2017, 7:50 pm
#2548
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Chicago: ORD, MDW
Programs: United Million Mile Flyer, Hilton Silver, Marriott Gold, DL, AA WN
Posts: 514
It is "still going on" in the sense that the re-definition of "lifetime" might just have been the beginning of the anti-customer attitude that has resulted in the current situation.
In the first of the recent posts concerned Flyer Talk users were simply asked to contact the House Transportation Committee with their stories.
In the first of the recent posts concerned Flyer Talk users were simply asked to contact the House Transportation Committee with their stories.
May 2, 2017, 11:55 pm
#2549
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,769
May 3, 2017, 1:41 am
#2550
Moderator: Mileage Run, United Airlines; FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The City/Honolulu
Programs: UA 3MM; Hyatt Glob*****; Hilton Diamond
Posts: 14,473
Please, send your own Million Mile Flyer story to the following e-mail address.
***
[email protected]
***
[email protected]
I sent an email and included a copy of the original email from United from May 2008 "You have earned Million Mile status" and congratulating me for becoming a Million Mile Flyer.
Again, thanks for fighting the good fight on behalf of all Million Mile Flyers.
Pat