With new ANA Sea-Nrt, is there risk that UA will go away?
#31
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA/IAD
Programs: UA*S/Club, Hyatt Plat, Marriott Silver
Posts: 485
"We will make full use of the efficiencies of the 787 as well as capitalizing on our close relationship with United and Continental Airlines to enhance the competitiveness of our joint ventures with these two Star Alliance partners."
http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/us/e/local/...11/111221.html
Another Smisek enhancement I guess
#32
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: AA Plat, IHG Plat, HH Diamond, Hyatt Plat, Hertz Gold
Posts: 1,933
ANA 787 is supposed to have the business staggered seats, so even a reconfigured PMUA777 has an inferior C product here. The one thing it has going for it is F assuming there's enough demand for UA to keep a 3-class plane on the route.
#33
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salt Lake City, Los Angeles
Posts: 478
Just booked a flight on United.com for an Aug trip. The SEA-NRT leg I picked the ANA flight of course, since it was the same price as UA operated one and the schedule virtually the same. Although I am disappointed this won't be on the new 787...
Since the 787 is planning on being used I don't think *A is expecting too much traffic between SEA and NRT, but since the schedules are basically the same, I don't see why just either UA or ANA runs this route on a A380 or 747 and the other codeshare.
As a side note, I think UA will need more flights to SEA to feed into the two flights running to NRT now.
Since the 787 is planning on being used I don't think *A is expecting too much traffic between SEA and NRT, but since the schedules are basically the same, I don't see why just either UA or ANA runs this route on a A380 or 747 and the other codeshare.
As a side note, I think UA will need more flights to SEA to feed into the two flights running to NRT now.
#34
Suspended
Join Date: Jun 2012
Programs: UA PP, AA, DL, BA, CX, SPG, HHonors
Posts: 2,002
1. NH and UA compete on NRT<>ORD and NRT<>IAD already.
2. The flight is almost always full in the back.
3. Good route for Saver F.
4. UA probably doesn't want to cede traffic to DL on this route.
5. UA will probably lose a fair amount of ORD<>NRT traffic because of the JAL non-stop to Boston.
6. Don't yet know what kind of J seats NH is putting in the 787.
2. The flight is almost always full in the back.
3. Good route for Saver F.
4. UA probably doesn't want to cede traffic to DL on this route.
5. UA will probably lose a fair amount of ORD<>NRT traffic because of the JAL non-stop to Boston.
6. Don't yet know what kind of J seats NH is putting in the 787.
#35
Original Poster
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Seattle
Programs: United 1P, Alaska MVPG 75K, Hyatt Daimond
Posts: 428
How is the load on United SEA-NRT since ANA started
Has any flow on UA sea-nrt ever since Ana started flying? I am curious the load factors. Also now that Ichiro is gone, maybe they are all flying to New York
#36
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SEA
Posts: 2,556
Many are, it seems:
http://mynorthwest.com/11/711888/Sea...ct-moves-to-NY
http://mynorthwest.com/11/711888/Sea...ct-moves-to-NY
#37
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SFO
Posts: 311
NH will be using the 777 on this route until a 787 "becomes available" - translation, easily the rest of 2012 and maybe into 2013 before a 787 is on this route on a regular basis.
Having said that, I think most of us would jump at the chance to take a NH 777 with an available Premium Economy cabin over the old, ratty UA 777 that continues to fly this route.
Having said that, I think most of us would jump at the chance to take a NH 777 with an available Premium Economy cabin over the old, ratty UA 777 that continues to fly this route.
But here's the thing - isn't the 777 that NH has on this route a pretty crappy one anyway? No lie flat, basically their "Barcolounger" equivalent. So only real difference from UA is the service.
Any when they do switch to the 787, that means ANA is flying FEWER seats on that route than the 777 they have now. Let's not forget that the 787 is NOT an A380.
So it doesn't seem like an existential threat to UA's route here. Maybe if they added a 787 daily to their existing 777 that would have an impact.
But an ANA 787 routing via SEA would be better still!
Last edited by iluv2fly; Sep 1, 2012 at 8:35 pm Reason: merge
#38
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Salt Lake City, Los Angeles
Posts: 478
Back from my trip, SEA-NRT last month on NH. Definitely will choose NH going forward, sorry UA, your service and equipment doesn't cut it. I posted a combined UA/NH review on my blog if you'd like to read about it.
http://hktravelblog.com/2012/08/unit...r-sea-nrt-hkg/
Hopefully both airlines can sustain routes for competitions sake, but SEA is really a small market, and smaller now that Ichiro is in NYC!
http://hktravelblog.com/2012/08/unit...r-sea-nrt-hkg/
Hopefully both airlines can sustain routes for competitions sake, but SEA is really a small market, and smaller now that Ichiro is in NYC!
#39
Suspended
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: SEA
Posts: 12,485
However, contrary to earlier claims, SEA-NRT is not one of UA's better performing NRT flights. NH is expected to erode loads and yields for UA, though switching the flight to a 787 would likely occur before it is cancelled altogether.
Also, neither Microsoft or Boeing are exclusively contracted with UA for SEA-NRT.
#40
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K/MM, AA GLD
Posts: 1,706
"Both airlines" are really treated as one airline for competition's sake; UA and ANA have a joint venture across the pacific, so they share revenue and costs on this route even though the metal is different.
#41
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Floating around
Programs: UA 1K (1MM), DL Gold (1MM), Marriott LTT
Posts: 10,327
We now have three non-stop services to NRT with NH in the mix.
-RM
#42
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Seattle, WA
Programs: DL Diamond, UA 1K MM, SPG Plat For Life, Marriott Plat, Nexus/GlobalEntry
Posts: 9,198
At one point AA, NW, and UA all flew SEA-NRT.. I think that's what he was referring to.
#43
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Global
Posts: 5,977
That is the most important point made here. This agreement actually is an encouragement for UA to stop the SEA-NRT flight. They closed the first class lounge in Seattle about 5 years ago. Also, old UA has shrunk operations significantly in Seattle; they used to have two IAD and two ORD redeyes + almost hourly flights to SFO and LAX. Even with the added CO flights, they are not what they used to be. Many of can remember old UA "owning" the N concourse. Now they are maybe 1/2.
#44
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The World.
Programs: UA MP/UC - "RIP Tulip Plat"
Posts: 1,225
That is the most important point made here. This agreement actually is an encouragement for UA to stop the SEA-NRT flight. They closed the first class lounge in Seattle about 5 years ago. Also, old UA has shrunk operations significantly in Seattle; they used to have two IAD and two ORD redeyes + almost hourly flights to SFO and LAX. Even with the added CO flights, they are not what they used to be. Many of can remember old UA "owning" the N concourse. Now they are maybe 1/2.
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re UA shrinking its Seattle ops, the red-eye to Dulles is gone for January/Feb -- I believe the A/C has been redeployed to seasonal ski service. So we'll be down to 2x daily flights from SEA to IAD -- no greater frequency than AS.
Also, the nightly 757 from Dulles to Seatac has been downgauged to an A320. Started last week, I believe. I wrote UA to ask what was up with the A320, and was told the route was more profitable with an A320 than a 757. Reading between the lines, I think UA is losing the good O&D business in the market to AS, and is responding with smaller aircraft and less frequency. This may make the remaining UA routes more profitable in the short term, but I would think could have the perverse impact of pushing even more passengers to other carriers.
There is a newish Seattle UA station manager (pmUA, last posting in Florida). Anyone know her? I'd be curious as to UA's plans for Seattle, if any.
Also, the nightly 757 from Dulles to Seatac has been downgauged to an A320. Started last week, I believe. I wrote UA to ask what was up with the A320, and was told the route was more profitable with an A320 than a 757. Reading between the lines, I think UA is losing the good O&D business in the market to AS, and is responding with smaller aircraft and less frequency. This may make the remaining UA routes more profitable in the short term, but I would think could have the perverse impact of pushing even more passengers to other carriers.
There is a newish Seattle UA station manager (pmUA, last posting in Florida). Anyone know her? I'd be curious as to UA's plans for Seattle, if any.
Last edited by mapoptic; Dec 10, 2012 at 8:09 am Reason: Fixed brain-dead typos.