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With new ANA Sea-Nrt, is there risk that UA will go away?

With new ANA Sea-Nrt, is there risk that UA will go away?

Old Apr 30, 2012, 6:47 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by rob_flies_ua
No, actually, they don't compete on NRT-ORD/IAD/LAX. They have anti-trust immunity and a joint venture that means that they actually share costs and revenues on those routes.
Quoting, lest this gets lost in the weeds. As ANA stated in their press release announcing the route:

"We will make full use of the efficiencies of the 787 as well as capitalizing on our close relationship with United and Continental Airlines to enhance the competitiveness of our joint ventures with these two Star Alliance partners."


http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/us/e/local/...11/111221.html

Another Smisek enhancement I guess
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Old Apr 30, 2012, 7:32 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
Product-wise, *A customers would be better off with the ANA 777/787 or connecting in YVR on AC unless UA decides to move this route to an updated PMUA 777 or the PMCO 777 - they might not have a choice if their premium traffic moves to ANA.
ANA 787 is supposed to have the business staggered seats, so even a reconfigured PMUA777 has an inferior C product here. The one thing it has going for it is F assuming there's enough demand for UA to keep a 3-class plane on the route.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 8:48 am
  #33  
 
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Just booked a flight on United.com for an Aug trip. The SEA-NRT leg I picked the ANA flight of course, since it was the same price as UA operated one and the schedule virtually the same. Although I am disappointed this won't be on the new 787...

Since the 787 is planning on being used I don't think *A is expecting too much traffic between SEA and NRT, but since the schedules are basically the same, I don't see why just either UA or ANA runs this route on a A380 or 747 and the other codeshare.

As a side note, I think UA will need more flights to SEA to feed into the two flights running to NRT now.
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Old Jul 2, 2012, 9:10 am
  #34  
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Originally Posted by 5khours
1. NH and UA compete on NRT<>ORD and NRT<>IAD already.

2. The flight is almost always full in the back.

3. Good route for Saver F.

4. UA probably doesn't want to cede traffic to DL on this route.

5. UA will probably lose a fair amount of ORD<>NRT traffic because of the JAL non-stop to Boston.

6. Don't yet know what kind of J seats NH is putting in the 787.
There's also NRT-JFK on NH vs. NRT-EWR on UA.
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Old Aug 24, 2012, 2:04 pm
  #35  
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How is the load on United SEA-NRT since ANA started

Has any flow on UA sea-nrt ever since Ana started flying? I am curious the load factors. Also now that Ichiro is gone, maybe they are all flying to New York
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Old Sep 1, 2012, 2:03 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by convert
...now that Ichiro is gone, maybe they are all flying to New York
Many are, it seems:
http://mynorthwest.com/11/711888/Sea...ct-moves-to-NY
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Old Sep 1, 2012, 5:21 pm
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
NH will be using the 777 on this route until a 787 "becomes available" - translation, easily the rest of 2012 and maybe into 2013 before a 787 is on this route on a regular basis.

Having said that, I think most of us would jump at the chance to take a NH 777 with an available Premium Economy cabin over the old, ratty UA 777 that continues to fly this route.
I believe there have been reliable reports that the target date to change to 787 is October 31 or somewhere thereabouts. So not too far off, even with some allowance for slippage.

But here's the thing - isn't the 777 that NH has on this route a pretty crappy one anyway? No lie flat, basically their "Barcolounger" equivalent. So only real difference from UA is the service.

Any when they do switch to the 787, that means ANA is flying FEWER seats on that route than the 777 they have now. Let's not forget that the 787 is NOT an A380.

So it doesn't seem like an existential threat to UA's route here. Maybe if they added a 787 daily to their existing 777 that would have an impact.

Originally Posted by convert
Has any flow on UA sea-nrt ever since Ana started flying? I am curious the load factors. Also now that Ichiro is gone, maybe they are all flying to New York
Not sure of the loads, but one thing is for sure - if you're looking for award seats SFO-NRT, you'll get LOADS of availability on SEA-NRT popping up. So that can't be a good sign. Personally I don't want to gamble on the 777s. If that route was all converted 777s it would be a great alternative to the hard-to-book SFO-NRT 747 flight.

But an ANA 787 routing via SEA would be better still!

Last edited by iluv2fly; Sep 1, 2012 at 8:35 pm Reason: merge
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 7:05 am
  #38  
 
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Back from my trip, SEA-NRT last month on NH. Definitely will choose NH going forward, sorry UA, your service and equipment doesn't cut it. I posted a combined UA/NH review on my blog if you'd like to read about it.

http://hktravelblog.com/2012/08/unit...r-sea-nrt-hkg/

Hopefully both airlines can sustain routes for competitions sake, but SEA is really a small market, and smaller now that Ichiro is in NYC!
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 7:12 am
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Noodlesz
Hopefully both airlines can sustain routes for competitions sake, but SEA is really a small market, and smaller now that Ichiro is in NYC!
SEA-NRT is not that small of a market and has sustained more than 2 carriers in the past.

However, contrary to earlier claims, SEA-NRT is not one of UA's better performing NRT flights. NH is expected to erode loads and yields for UA, though switching the flight to a 787 would likely occur before it is cancelled altogether.

Also, neither Microsoft or Boeing are exclusively contracted with UA for SEA-NRT.
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 7:39 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by Noodlesz
Hopefully both airlines can sustain routes for competitions sake, but SEA is really a small market, and smaller now that Ichiro is in NYC!
"Both airlines" are really treated as one airline for competition's sake; UA and ANA have a joint venture across the pacific, so they share revenue and costs on this route even though the metal is different.
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 10:02 am
  #41  
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Originally Posted by sxf24
SEA-NRT is not that small of a market and has sustained more than 2 carriers in the past.
Not sure what "in the past" means. Remember DL still flies this route and has for years, as it was NW before DL took it over.

We now have three non-stop services to NRT with NH in the mix.

-RM
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Old Sep 4, 2012, 10:23 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by RobOnLI
Not sure what "in the past" means. Remember DL still flies this route and has for years, as it was NW before DL took it over.

We now have three non-stop services to NRT with NH in the mix.

-RM
At one point AA, NW, and UA all flew SEA-NRT.. I think that's what he was referring to.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 4:51 am
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by rob_flies_ua
"Both airlines" are really treated as one airline for competition's sake; UA and ANA have a joint venture across the pacific, so they share revenue and costs on this route even though the metal is different.
That is the most important point made here. This agreement actually is an encouragement for UA to stop the SEA-NRT flight. They closed the first class lounge in Seattle about 5 years ago. Also, old UA has shrunk operations significantly in Seattle; they used to have two IAD and two ORD redeyes + almost hourly flights to SFO and LAX. Even with the added CO flights, they are not what they used to be. Many of can remember old UA "owning" the N concourse. Now they are maybe 1/2.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 6:24 am
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by 110pgl
That is the most important point made here. This agreement actually is an encouragement for UA to stop the SEA-NRT flight. They closed the first class lounge in Seattle about 5 years ago. Also, old UA has shrunk operations significantly in Seattle; they used to have two IAD and two ORD redeyes + almost hourly flights to SFO and LAX. Even with the added CO flights, they are not what they used to be. Many of can remember old UA "owning" the N concourse. Now they are maybe 1/2.
Very sad, and very true unfortunately.
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Old Dec 10, 2012, 7:33 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by UAL4life
Very sad, and very true unfortunately.
Re UA shrinking its Seattle ops, the red-eye to Dulles is gone for January/Feb -- I believe the A/C has been redeployed to seasonal ski service. So we'll be down to 2x daily flights from SEA to IAD -- no greater frequency than AS.

Also, the nightly 757 from Dulles to Seatac has been downgauged to an A320. Started last week, I believe. I wrote UA to ask what was up with the A320, and was told the route was more profitable with an A320 than a 757. Reading between the lines, I think UA is losing the good O&D business in the market to AS, and is responding with smaller aircraft and less frequency. This may make the remaining UA routes more profitable in the short term, but I would think could have the perverse impact of pushing even more passengers to other carriers.

There is a newish Seattle UA station manager (pmUA, last posting in Florida). Anyone know her? I'd be curious as to UA's plans for Seattle, if any.

Last edited by mapoptic; Dec 10, 2012 at 8:09 am Reason: Fixed brain-dead typos.
 

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