Oct 19, 2017, 9:51 am
Last edit by: WineCountryUA
UA and Hawaiian Air (HA) will interline bags.
When checking-in with HA, no UA elite / credit card bag waivers will be recognized. Bag allowance will be based on ticket rules.
HA's policy on inter-island / Neighbor Island flights is no free bags in economy.
When checking-in with HA, no UA elite / credit card bag waivers will be recognized. Bag allowance will be based on ticket rules.
HA's policy on inter-island / Neighbor Island flights is no free bags in economy.
United & Hawaiian Airlines: Interlining bags, bag fees & other connecting experiences
Jan 24, 2013, 7:51 am
#46
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: LHR (sometimes CLE, SFO, BOS, LAX, SEA)
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 5,892
Data point:
I purchased the following itinerary from united.com: ORD-HNL-OGG-HNL-ORD
At OGG, HA charged a $25 bag fee for the return, despite my UA itinerary explicitly stating $0 for the first bag.
I contacted HA for a refund (providing them with clear documentation), and was denied for the following reason: "The "first marketing carrier" policy applies to the actual baggage policy of the carrier and does not apply to the free baggage allowance offered to its' elite members."
I followed up the response with text from Regs 399.87 and 399.85 (the primary basis for my complaint), and additionally, disputed that UA's "actual baggage policy" is separate from their "free bag allowance". I believe that since UA's baggage policy is published and administered together with certain elite benefits, the elite benefits are not separable from the policy. If they are separable, then the top-down argument could be made that the "actual baggage policy" is to not charge, and fees begin and are increased for lesser- and non-elites.
I'm awaiting a response, and plan to file a DOT complaint if a full refund is not issued.
I am empathetic to HA's case, and my complaint is not on the basis of whether I believe it's conceptually right or wrong to charge the fee, but rather that it's against the rules. Does HA even have the capability to see what baggage fees are on an individual basis?
I purchased the following itinerary from united.com: ORD-HNL-OGG-HNL-ORD
At OGG, HA charged a $25 bag fee for the return, despite my UA itinerary explicitly stating $0 for the first bag.
I contacted HA for a refund (providing them with clear documentation), and was denied for the following reason: "The "first marketing carrier" policy applies to the actual baggage policy of the carrier and does not apply to the free baggage allowance offered to its' elite members."
I followed up the response with text from Regs 399.87 and 399.85 (the primary basis for my complaint), and additionally, disputed that UA's "actual baggage policy" is separate from their "free bag allowance". I believe that since UA's baggage policy is published and administered together with certain elite benefits, the elite benefits are not separable from the policy. If they are separable, then the top-down argument could be made that the "actual baggage policy" is to not charge, and fees begin and are increased for lesser- and non-elites.
I'm awaiting a response, and plan to file a DOT complaint if a full refund is not issued.
I am empathetic to HA's case, and my complaint is not on the basis of whether I believe it's conceptually right or wrong to charge the fee, but rather that it's against the rules. Does HA even have the capability to see what baggage fees are on an individual basis?
If HA would like to pursue you in court, they get to prove that this debt is valid, i.e. document that they're contravening DOT rules. That will definitely help your DOT complaint
Jan 24, 2013, 9:24 am
#47
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, AS GM, AA Gold, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold
Posts: 102
This sounds like a case for paying with a credit card, signing "under duress", and disputing the charge with your CC company later.
If HA would like to pursue you in court, they get to prove that this debt is valid, i.e. document that they're contravening DOT rules. That will definitely help your DOT complaint
If HA would like to pursue you in court, they get to prove that this debt is valid, i.e. document that they're contravening DOT rules. That will definitely help your DOT complaint
Interestingly, in the two weeks since I submitted my complaint to HA, they added the following sentence to their webpage on baggage fees (http://help.hawaiianairlines.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1922#codeshare):
"Exemptions from bag fees related to frequent flyer status on partner airlines may not apply when checking in on Hawaiian."
I will be submitting a screenshot of both versions with my complaint.
Last edited by av8r316; Jan 24, 2013 at 9:37 am
Jan 24, 2013, 10:20 am
#48
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 14,989
I think I may file the complaint either way to try and stop this practice so that other passengers aren't subject to this unlawful fee. Hopefully HA doesn't read this post before deciding whether or not to refund my $25.
That's my plan if they don't issue a full refund.
Interestingly, in the two weeks since I submitted my complaint to HA, they added the following sentence to their webpage on baggage fees (http://help.hawaiianairlines.com/app...22#codeshare):
"Exemptions from bag fees related to frequent flyer status on partner airlines may not apply when checking in on Hawaiian."
I will be submitting a screenshot of both versions with my complaint.
That's my plan if they don't issue a full refund.
Interestingly, in the two weeks since I submitted my complaint to HA, they added the following sentence to their webpage on baggage fees (http://help.hawaiianairlines.com/app...22#codeshare):
"Exemptions from bag fees related to frequent flyer status on partner airlines may not apply when checking in on Hawaiian."
I will be submitting a screenshot of both versions with my complaint.
Jan 24, 2013, 12:18 pm
#49
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Denver, CO, USA
Programs: Former 1KMM now free as UA Gold MM, former HH D, Marriott Lifetime Plat
Posts: 1,121
Data point:
I purchased the following itinerary from united.com: ORD-HNL-OGG-HNL-ORD
At OGG, HA charged a $25 bag fee for the return, despite my UA itinerary explicitly stating $0 for the first bag.
I contacted HA for a refund (providing them with clear documentation), and was denied for the following reason: "The "first marketing carrier" policy applies to the actual baggage policy of the carrier and does not apply to the free baggage allowance offered to its' elite members."
I purchased the following itinerary from united.com: ORD-HNL-OGG-HNL-ORD
At OGG, HA charged a $25 bag fee for the return, despite my UA itinerary explicitly stating $0 for the first bag.
I contacted HA for a refund (providing them with clear documentation), and was denied for the following reason: "The "first marketing carrier" policy applies to the actual baggage policy of the carrier and does not apply to the free baggage allowance offered to its' elite members."
I have filed a complaint with the CEO's office and the DOT but heard nothing back yet.
Jan 24, 2013, 12:24 pm
#50
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, AS GM, AA Gold, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold
Posts: 102
Interestingly, in the two weeks since I submitted my complaint to HA, they added the following sentence to their webpage on baggage fees (http://help.hawaiianairlines.com/app...22#codeshare):
"Exemptions from bag fees related to frequent flyer status on partner airlines may not apply when checking in on Hawaiian."
I will be submitting a screenshot of both versions with my complaint.
"Exemptions from bag fees related to frequent flyer status on partner airlines may not apply when checking in on Hawaiian."
I will be submitting a screenshot of both versions with my complaint.
Do you know where else it is posted?
Jan 24, 2013, 12:57 pm
#51
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ORD
Programs: UA Silver, AS GM, AA Gold, Hyatt Plat, SPG Gold
Posts: 102
Data point:
I purchased the following itinerary from united.com: ORD-HNL-OGG-HNL-ORD
At OGG, HA charged a $25 bag fee for the return, despite my UA itinerary explicitly stating $0 for the first bag.
I contacted HA for a refund (providing them with clear documentation), and was denied for the following reason: "The "first marketing carrier" policy applies to the actual baggage policy of the carrier and does not apply to the free baggage allowance offered to its' elite members."
I purchased the following itinerary from united.com: ORD-HNL-OGG-HNL-ORD
At OGG, HA charged a $25 bag fee for the return, despite my UA itinerary explicitly stating $0 for the first bag.
I contacted HA for a refund (providing them with clear documentation), and was denied for the following reason: "The "first marketing carrier" policy applies to the actual baggage policy of the carrier and does not apply to the free baggage allowance offered to its' elite members."
I have filed a complaint with the CEO's office and the DOT but heard nothing back yet.
1) Me
2) UA
3) HA
I know I can't be in the wrong because the seller of the ticket (UA) advertised to me that I would be charged $0 for my first checked bag from OGG-HNL-ORD.
UA may be in the wrong if HA charges me for my first checked bag (under weight and size). As the first marketing carrier, it seems to me that UA gets to call the shots and force their policy on HA. If UA's policy is to comp all first bags for anybody leaving ORD (and charge everybody else $100 out of any other origin), then HA must comply with both stipulations. Nevermind the logistical nightmare that causes, that's the rule. However, if UA's basis for their advertisement is 399.87, then they should be able to rely upon HA to follow the rule. If HA doesn't follow the rule, then I suppose I have a false advertising claim from UA, who could then attempt to recover from HA for damages. Ultimately, it seems UA does has some exposure for making the $0 claim, essentially guaranteeing HA will honor it.
My argument for HA being in the wrong is already documented.
This whole situation is a mess and I feel for the airlines. They're forced to make guarantees that they can't control. They all ought to get together and agree to include 1 checked bag on every ticket so they can all price it in. The ill will created by this monster hurts the entire industry.
All I know for sure is I'm due $25 from HA or UA.
Feb 9, 2013, 12:52 pm
#52
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Colorado
Programs: UA 2.5MM, 1K
Posts: 4
Back in October I posted similar scenario to what av8r316 is experiencing more recently. I filed my DOT complaint and Hawaiian had a copy of it the next day. This reinforced what two United Reps led me to understand: that the 'origionating-carrier' designation applies to the whole itinerary and not to each leg of a round trip. I encourage anyone experiencing this illegal practice to file a DOT complaint. It's easy ... took 10 minutes. http://www.dot.gov/airconsumer/air-t...t-comment-form
One United Rep did offer to refund my fees [I suppose this will vary depending on who the rep is], but I told them that it should not be United's expense, rather Hawaiian should pay up. So we filed with our credit card company, sending a copy of the DOT ruling 399.87. Our credit card company came thru and we are fully refunded.
Instead of Hawaiian collecting $50 from us, it probably cost them $100 in paperwork. And, it cost them future business. As property owners in HI, we travel there regularly. We've gone out of our way to book on Hawaiian's competitors.
One United Rep did offer to refund my fees [I suppose this will vary depending on who the rep is], but I told them that it should not be United's expense, rather Hawaiian should pay up. So we filed with our credit card company, sending a copy of the DOT ruling 399.87. Our credit card company came thru and we are fully refunded.
Instead of Hawaiian collecting $50 from us, it probably cost them $100 in paperwork. And, it cost them future business. As property owners in HI, we travel there regularly. We've gone out of our way to book on Hawaiian's competitors.
Feb 9, 2013, 4:34 pm
#53
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SF Bay Area
Programs: MileagePlus
Posts: 412
See Question #46 at DOT Frequently Asked Questions on Rule #2 Questions regarding section 399.87.
The one of the DOT's views is a carrier could change its frequent flyer rules to make clear that the free baggage allowance only applies when all of the flights on a passenger’s itinerary are operated by that carrier with no code-share or interlining.
UA's web site is not clear on how MileagePlus Premier bag fee exemption would be handled on codeshare flights.
The one of the DOT's views is a carrier could change its frequent flyer rules to make clear that the free baggage allowance only applies when all of the flights on a passenger’s itinerary are operated by that carrier with no code-share or interlining.
UA's web site is not clear on how MileagePlus Premier bag fee exemption would be handled on codeshare flights.
Jul 31, 2013, 11:34 pm
#54
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: eastern seaboard
Programs: BA Gold
Posts: 54
Checking bags at IAD
Not sure if this should go here or on the Hawaiian board, but here goes...
My daughter will be flying IAD-SFO (on United) then SFO-HNL-AKL (on a separate Hawaiian ticket). Does anybody know whether she will be able to check a bag all the way through to AKL, or will she have to uplift the bag at SFO and re-check it.
Any advice gratefully received.
My daughter will be flying IAD-SFO (on United) then SFO-HNL-AKL (on a separate Hawaiian ticket). Does anybody know whether she will be able to check a bag all the way through to AKL, or will she have to uplift the bag at SFO and re-check it.
Any advice gratefully received.
Jul 31, 2013, 11:48 pm
#55
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.99MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,742
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...ning-bags.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...t-tickets.html
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...-w-shares.html
Oct 5, 2014, 9:54 pm
#56
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Irvine CA & PEK
Programs: Hyatt Globalist, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Diamond, IHG Spire Ambassador, Qantas Platinum, United S
Posts: 664
Ran into this situation 2 days ago, and found this post.
It's 2014 Oct, and the problem is still here.
My itinerary is NRT to HNL to OGG to HNL to NRT. The first leg doesn't have stopover, and the second leg has a stopover for one night in Honolulu.
When I checked in at Hawaiian Airlines counter per United's instruction, I was charged $25 for the only bag. Hawaiian rep told me to pay now and get the refund from United later with the receipt. Being unfamiliar with this Hawaiian situation at all, I naively believed them. Now it seems like a bigger issue.
The special point in my case is that my first bag being free is even not a status benefit (I do have gold status which gives me 2 bags for free). My itinerary is a international one, which has one free bag regardless of the status.
Here is the bag fee information in my ticket:
10/1/2014 Tokyo, Japan (NRT - Narita) to Maui, HI (OGG) 0.00 USD 0.00 USD 70.0lbs (32.0kg) - 62.0in (157.0cm)
10/4/2014 Maui, HI (OGG) to Honolulu, HI (HNL) 0.00 USD 87.00 USD 50.0lbs (23.0kg) - 62.0in (157.0cm)
10/5/2014 Honolulu, HI (HNL) to Tokyo, Japan (NRT - Narita) 0.00 USD 87.00 USD 50.0lbs (23.0kg) - 62.0in (157.0cm)
See the second leg already has different bag fee structure? I thought I just lose one free bag, and in fact I lost both...
It's 2014 Oct, and the problem is still here.
My itinerary is NRT to HNL to OGG to HNL to NRT. The first leg doesn't have stopover, and the second leg has a stopover for one night in Honolulu.
When I checked in at Hawaiian Airlines counter per United's instruction, I was charged $25 for the only bag. Hawaiian rep told me to pay now and get the refund from United later with the receipt. Being unfamiliar with this Hawaiian situation at all, I naively believed them. Now it seems like a bigger issue.
The special point in my case is that my first bag being free is even not a status benefit (I do have gold status which gives me 2 bags for free). My itinerary is a international one, which has one free bag regardless of the status.
Here is the bag fee information in my ticket:
10/1/2014 Tokyo, Japan (NRT - Narita) to Maui, HI (OGG) 0.00 USD 0.00 USD 70.0lbs (32.0kg) - 62.0in (157.0cm)
10/4/2014 Maui, HI (OGG) to Honolulu, HI (HNL) 0.00 USD 87.00 USD 50.0lbs (23.0kg) - 62.0in (157.0cm)
10/5/2014 Honolulu, HI (HNL) to Tokyo, Japan (NRT - Narita) 0.00 USD 87.00 USD 50.0lbs (23.0kg) - 62.0in (157.0cm)
See the second leg already has different bag fee structure? I thought I just lose one free bag, and in fact I lost both...
Nov 9, 2014, 10:50 pm
#57
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St. John's, NL, Canada
Posts: 357
Looking for some clarification from those with more experience...
UAXXXX LIH-HNL (UA fare Y operated by HA)
UAXXX HNL-IAH (UA fare P operated by UA)
HA collected baggage fees at LIH even though UA marketed all segments and advertised first two bags free based on fare type (frequently flyer status did not come into play here).
Was HA right to collect these fees? My laymay's read of various DOT policies referenced on FT leaves me in doubt. If I am due a refund, who should I address?
Thanks.
UAXXXX LIH-HNL (UA fare Y operated by HA)
UAXXX HNL-IAH (UA fare P operated by UA)
HA collected baggage fees at LIH even though UA marketed all segments and advertised first two bags free based on fare type (frequently flyer status did not come into play here).
Was HA right to collect these fees? My laymay's read of various DOT policies referenced on FT leaves me in doubt. If I am due a refund, who should I address?
Thanks.
Nov 9, 2014, 11:19 pm
#58
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Bangkok or San Francisco
Programs: United 1k, Marriott Lifetime PE, Former DL Gold, Former SQ Solitaire, HH Gold
Posts: 11,886
Looking for some clarification from those with more experience...
UAXXXX LIH-HNL (UA fare Y operated by HA)
UAXXX HNL-IAH (UA fare P operated by UA)
HA collected baggage fees at LIH even though UA marketed all segments and advertised first two bags free based on fare type (frequently flyer status did not come into play here).
Was HA right to collect these fees? My laymay's read of various DOT policies referenced on FT leaves me in doubt. If I am due a refund, who should I address?
Thanks.
UAXXXX LIH-HNL (UA fare Y operated by HA)
UAXXX HNL-IAH (UA fare P operated by UA)
HA collected baggage fees at LIH even though UA marketed all segments and advertised first two bags free based on fare type (frequently flyer status did not come into play here).
Was HA right to collect these fees? My laymay's read of various DOT policies referenced on FT leaves me in doubt. If I am due a refund, who should I address?
Thanks.
Last edited by Tchiowa; Nov 9, 2014 at 11:30 pm
Nov 10, 2014, 6:35 am
#59
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: St. John's, NL, Canada
Posts: 357
United & Hawaiian Airlines: Interlining bags?
Origin and end are Canada, if that makes a difference. This segment was fully USA to USA though.
When I look at the e-ticket receipt, it shows $0 for the first two bags on the LIH-IAH (and all other segments). Is that fact enough to be owed money back for the paid fees, or is that table included with the receipt just a non-binding estimate?
Any thoughts on which party to contact for this? Thanks.
When I look at the e-ticket receipt, it shows $0 for the first two bags on the LIH-IAH (and all other segments). Is that fact enough to be owed money back for the paid fees, or is that table included with the receipt just a non-binding estimate?
Any thoughts on which party to contact for this? Thanks.
Nov 10, 2014, 9:37 am
#60
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Honolulu Harbor
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 14,989
Origin and end are Canada, if that makes a difference. This segment was fully USA to USA though.
When I look at the e-ticket receipt, it shows $0 for the first two bags on the LIH-IAH (and all other segments). Is that fact enough to be owed money back for the paid fees, or is that table included with the receipt just a non-binding estimate?
Any thoughts on which party to contact for this? Thanks.
When I look at the e-ticket receipt, it shows $0 for the first two bags on the LIH-IAH (and all other segments). Is that fact enough to be owed money back for the paid fees, or is that table included with the receipt just a non-binding estimate?
Any thoughts on which party to contact for this? Thanks.
This statement is just below the "$0" "$0" I get as the first two bag charges. Since Hawaiian is not United or United Express, the "$0 and $0" don't count and HA bag charges count at a HA check-in. HA is not a *A partner either, so there's no relief that way. The way to avoid interisland bag charges is to fly Lihue to West Coast on United and then onward, not HA to Honolulu and then to mainland. HA has been charging UA passengers for bags for years and has not faced any DOT action in spite of numerous complaints.
