Mileage Between Some City Pairs is Different After System Integration-Resolved by UA.
Mar 5, 2012, 1:45 am
#46
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: SJC
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 609
It's not a methodical reduction. Neither the number of miles nor the percentage is consistent. In fact there are at least a couple of routes where the mileage increased.
Nor is it taking over the CO database. The new mileage is not equal to either the PMUA or the PMCO mileage.
It looks to me like UA decided to use the merger of systems to redo all of the mileage and the formula they applied to calculate distance is not accurate.
Nor is it taking over the CO database. The new mileage is not equal to either the PMUA or the PMCO mileage.
It looks to me like UA decided to use the merger of systems to redo all of the mileage and the formula they applied to calculate distance is not accurate.
Mar 5, 2012, 1:46 am
#47
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: eastern Europe & NC
Posts: 4,527
The reasons just keep coming to make me glad I did a challenge to the dAArkside! UA is nickling and diming on downgrades to its program, just like DL after the merger.
Mar 5, 2012, 1:49 am
#48
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: eastern Europe & NC
Posts: 4,527
Do what I did - a challenge to the dAArkside.
OK, this isn't meant to be petty, but what the heck. SFO-ORD is one of the most storied routes in the legacy of United Airlines. It had always accrued 1846 miles per leg. I do this route at least twice a month. So now, after all my upcoming UA trips are re-tagged with new record locators, etc., the website says "you will accrue 1839 miles per segment" instead of the traditional 1846. To be sure, AA's AAdvantage program had always posted 1846 for this.
Just another example of how things can change. How do they recalculate this stuff, and why? Did the runways truly change? At 20 trips per year, x 14 miles per trip, that's 280 miles. Others may travel more on this route. I checked another trip from SFO-BOS coming up, a one-way route that has traditionally been 2704 per leg. Now it is listed as 2694---which is 8 miles less per segment.
I looked at an upcoming SFO-EWR, traditionally 2565---it is now 2556. I checked on an upcoming SFO-LIH. It went from 2447 to 2440. And yadda.
Ok, the reductions are about .4 or .5% per route, but, as noted above, it adds up in a huge frequent prior program with millions of flights.
My take: This is no accident. It is unnecessary and I doubt is simple incompetence.
I would hope that UA would remedy this.
Just another example of how things can change. How do they recalculate this stuff, and why? Did the runways truly change? At 20 trips per year, x 14 miles per trip, that's 280 miles. Others may travel more on this route. I checked another trip from SFO-BOS coming up, a one-way route that has traditionally been 2704 per leg. Now it is listed as 2694---which is 8 miles less per segment.
I looked at an upcoming SFO-EWR, traditionally 2565---it is now 2556. I checked on an upcoming SFO-LIH. It went from 2447 to 2440. And yadda.
Ok, the reductions are about .4 or .5% per route, but, as noted above, it adds up in a huge frequent prior program with millions of flights.
My take: This is no accident. It is unnecessary and I doubt is simple incompetence.
I would hope that UA would remedy this.
Mar 5, 2012, 2:18 am
#49
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: LAX/VNY (Hometown: CAK)
Programs: Hyatt Explorist, IHG Platinum, Bonvoy Gold, Regal Diamond
Posts: 743
Interesting thread!
I wonder if the changes were motivated by the number of passengers that travel annually on the routes. Maybe the swaps make a net zero change, but increase/decrease routes used infrequently/frequently (respectively) by Elites, or in coordination with fare classes and/or future plans for these routes.
Multiplied out over the system, and that's a lot of miles and a lot of cash liabilities.
For an upcoming itinerary:
LAX-NRT (-14)
5,451 -> 5,437
NRT-HKG (+11)
1,827 -> 1,838
HKG-SIN (+3)
1,588 -> 1,591
SIN-NRT (-4)
3,328 -> 3,324
Including my NRT-LAX return flight, I lost 18 miles. Worth noting the differences between GC mapper mileage and old/new mileages:
GC Mileage (Old Difference/New Difference)
LAX-NRT (0/-14)
NRT-HKG (-15/-4)
HKG-SIN (0/+3)
SIN-NRT (-4/0)
I wonder if the changes were motivated by the number of passengers that travel annually on the routes. Maybe the swaps make a net zero change, but increase/decrease routes used infrequently/frequently (respectively) by Elites, or in coordination with fare classes and/or future plans for these routes.
Multiplied out over the system, and that's a lot of miles and a lot of cash liabilities.
For an upcoming itinerary:
LAX-NRT (-14)
5,451 -> 5,437
NRT-HKG (+11)
1,827 -> 1,838
HKG-SIN (+3)
1,588 -> 1,591
SIN-NRT (-4)
3,328 -> 3,324
Including my NRT-LAX return flight, I lost 18 miles. Worth noting the differences between GC mapper mileage and old/new mileages:
GC Mileage (Old Difference/New Difference)
LAX-NRT (0/-14)
NRT-HKG (-15/-4)
HKG-SIN (0/+3)
SIN-NRT (-4/0)
Mar 5, 2012, 3:15 am
#50
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: LAX and LHR. UA lifetime Gold 1.9MM 1K , DL Gold Medallion, HHonors Gold, Marriott Gold, Avis President's Club
Posts: 3,592
LHR-ORD down 16 with 3937 instead of 3953
Mar 5, 2012, 4:38 am
#51
In memoriam
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: ORD & BKK
Programs: UA 1K/MM; *A Gold Life; CX Gold; Marriott Platinum LT; SPG Plat; HHonors Diamond
Posts: 343
ORD-BKK Down
ORD-NRT down 23 miles
NRT-BKK down 5 miles
Total -46 R/T Six trips a year -276 miles
NRT-BKK down 5 miles
Total -46 R/T Six trips a year -276 miles
Mar 5, 2012, 4:54 am
#52
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Portland
Programs: UA 1K, AK Gold 75K, etc. etc.
Posts: 1,660
maybe they are planning on flying at lower altitude--less flight miles, NOT
Mar 5, 2012, 6:48 am
#53
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Here Today, There Tomorrow
Programs: 2.96MM DL DM, Hyatt Globalist, AA Plat Pro, UA Silver, HH Lifetime Diamond, Marriott TE
Posts: 1,318
it is called different databases -- for the UA folks, we are now using the CO database. UA numbers had been diferent than Co and other airlines.
from earlier today, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...shrinkage.html
from earlier today, http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/unite...shrinkage.html
Mar 5, 2012, 6:55 am
#54
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: IAH
Programs: UA 1K, NEXUS, Global Entry
Posts: 145
I'd guess that the distances have been in static tables for a long time for both PMUA and PMCO. And a new unified platform that corrects some long time deficiencies is now active. And that may be based on more recent datum and/or prepared for future GPS routings.
Mar 5, 2012, 7:03 am
#55
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: DAY
Programs: UA 1K 1MM; Marriott LT Titanium; Amex MR; Chase UR; Hertz PC; Global Entry
Posts: 10,159
Adding to the list....
Just checked on an existing itinerary.
ORD-NRT went from 6,274 down to 6,256
NRT-BKK went from 2,887 down to 2,882
Too funny.
EDIT: dfe beat me to it....
Just checked on an existing itinerary.
ORD-NRT went from 6,274 down to 6,256
NRT-BKK went from 2,887 down to 2,882
Too funny.
EDIT: dfe beat me to it....
Mar 5, 2012, 7:17 am
#56
Join Date: Mar 2010
Programs: United 1K MM, Marriott Gold
Posts: 417
New UA's motto
We make the world smaller, literally.
We make the world smaller, literally.
Last edited by Neil35; Mar 5, 2012 at 7:41 am
Mar 5, 2012, 7:46 am
#57
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: CAK/CLE
Programs: UA Plat/AA,DL Dirt/HH Diamond,Hyatt Something-ist/Hz Prez,Avis Pres Club
Posts: 674
Interesting thing about the timing of this. It seems that it may not have changed the mileages right away at the cutover, or maybe the changes didn't percolate through immediately. Friday night I had email copies of reservations sent to myself, for one last email from Continental, and then Saturday morning I had the reservations emailed again (same "from" address but now with UA logos and verbage). The mileage did not change. Last night, the mileages had changed! This is all for one PMCO reservation on CO, UA, and ExpressJet metal.
_______when res viewed_
---------3/2--3/3--3/4
CLE-LAX 2053 2053 2045 (−8)
SAN-ORD 1723 1723 1717 (−6)
ORD-CLE 0316 0316 0314 (−2)
_______when res viewed_
---------3/2--3/3--3/4
CLE-LAX 2053 2053 2045 (−8)
SAN-ORD 1723 1723 1717 (−6)
ORD-CLE 0316 0316 0314 (−2)
Last edited by UAzip; Mar 5, 2012 at 7:48 am Reason: clarified CO res on mixed metal
Mar 5, 2012, 7:59 am
#58
Join Date: May 2007
Location: WAS
Programs: UA 1K, AA EXP, WN A+, Hyatt Glob, Marriott Amb, Hertz PC
Posts: 1,126
I checked after the system integration and saw additional miles. This morning, I'm seeing several less miles per segment. Not pleased. As others have mentioned, reductions of 0.3% over the system is a lot of miles.
DCA-DEN: 1476 -> 1470 (-6)
DEN-ORD: 888 -> 885 (-3)
ORD-DCA: 612 -> 609 (-3)
DCA-DEN: 1476 -> 1470 (-6)
DEN-ORD: 888 -> 885 (-3)
ORD-DCA: 612 -> 609 (-3)
Mar 5, 2012, 8:05 am
#59
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: SFO, LAX
Programs: AA (ExecPlat.), UA, DL, Hertz (Club Gold), Avis, Hilton (Diamond VIP), Starwood, Marriott
Posts: 374
Not 100% related to the thread, but I can't find where this might be addressed. At PMUA, as a 1K flyer I earned 500 EQMs, as well as 500 FF miles + a 500 mile FF bonus for flights between SFO and LAX. Will that still be the case at the new United? The website indicates that I will only receive 338 miles.
Mar 5, 2012, 8:25 am
#60
Join Date: May 2008
Location: New York, NY
Programs: Delta Diamond, Hyatt Diamond, SPG Gold, Hertz Prez; Former UA GS
Posts: 313
Wow this is absurd.
I too just noticed that JFK-SFO is now 2577 instead of 2586. It's always been 2586. WolframAlpha says 2586. AmericanAirlines says 2586.
I'm starting to really lose faith in this airline. It keeps getting worse. I hope this is a bug that will get fixed. Otherwise, this really is a new low.
I'm starting to really lose faith in this airline. It keeps getting worse. I hope this is a bug that will get fixed. Otherwise, this really is a new low.