Mileage Between Some City Pairs is Different After System Integration-Resolved by UA.
Mar 6, 2012, 11:51 pm
#151
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2002
Programs: UA Platinum MM; DL Silver; IHG Diamond Ambassador; Hilton Gold; Marriott Gold
Posts: 24,248
As part of combining our two loyalty programs, we did a side-by-side comparison of the mileage calculations used by Continental and United. Of course, we found differences. Most commonly, these differences in calculations were found in locations where airports have physically moved (e.g. DEN, HKG, SIN, etc.). Other differences were found in markets where, when Continental or United added service, the mileage amount chosen was simply set to match other carriers already servicing the market as opposed to doing a new calculation.
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
Mar 7, 2012, 12:06 am
#152
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: May 2006
Location: SEA or BGR, Lower Earth Orbit
Programs: UA 1K
Posts: 17,217
well this is interesting.
Gate display tonight showed ORD-MKE as 67, BP showed it as 66...
Gate display tonight showed ORD-MKE as 67, BP showed it as 66...
Mar 7, 2012, 12:28 am
#153
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SFO
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 97
Hi Everyone, in true FlyerTalk form, your detailed thought and research on this topic are worth talking about. And as usual, we have a pretty boring explanation for what really happened.
As part of combining our two loyalty programs, we did a side-by-side comparison of the mileage calculations used by Continental and United. Of course, we found differences. Most commonly, these differences in calculations were found in locations where airports have physically moved (e.g. DEN, HKG, SIN, etc.). Other differences were found in markets where, when Continental or United added service, the mileage amount chosen was simply set to match other carriers already servicing the market as opposed to doing a new calculation.
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines
As part of combining our two loyalty programs, we did a side-by-side comparison of the mileage calculations used by Continental and United. Of course, we found differences. Most commonly, these differences in calculations were found in locations where airports have physically moved (e.g. DEN, HKG, SIN, etc.). Other differences were found in markets where, when Continental or United added service, the mileage amount chosen was simply set to match other carriers already servicing the market as opposed to doing a new calculation.
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
Shannon Kelly
Director, Customer Insights
United Airlines
Mar 7, 2012, 12:36 am
#154
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 134
So it is pettiness. Thanks, UAInsider for confirming that hypothesis. I think I am more disappointed by this mileage shrinkage than by any other of the new UA features that I am supposed to like. The total mileage isn't much, but there is a principle at stake here. You blew this one.
Mar 7, 2012, 12:56 am
#155
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Las Vegas
Programs: DL Platinum, AA Lifetime Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Platinum, Radisson Premium
Posts: 6,638
This is a little bit bizarre. But I hope they realize that their competitors can now argue that their EQM and even RDM are now more valuable than UA's. SkyPesos included at this rate.
Mar 7, 2012, 2:31 am
#156
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
Programs: Some of this 'n some of that
Posts: 17,263
This is insane. Yet another blatant cost saving measure which strikes me as nothing more than petty.
Pathetic.
Pathetic.
Mar 7, 2012, 3:50 am
#157
Join Date: Jan 2009
Programs: UA 1K, EL Al ???, HHonors Diamond, Marriott Gold
Posts: 182
EWR-TLV -19
NOT COOL 
This is just another example of hitting the frequent travelers the hardest.
At very least mileage should not change on tickets purchased before the merge.
EWR and TLV have moved 19 miles closer together. This on one of UA's most profitable routes. None of the airports have moved.
So here are my calculations for RT loss:
38 PQM
76 Redeemable miles (100% bonus)
10 (25% chase card bonus).
I do this trip 10x per year so I am losing 380 PQM and 860 redeemable.
We can't allow this to pass quietly.
MASSIVELY NOT COOL
This is just another example of hitting the frequent travelers the hardest.
At very least mileage should not change on tickets purchased before the merge.
EWR and TLV have moved 19 miles closer together. This on one of UA's most profitable routes. None of the airports have moved.
So here are my calculations for RT loss:
38 PQM
76 Redeemable miles (100% bonus)
10 (25% chase card bonus).
I do this trip 10x per year so I am losing 380 PQM and 860 redeemable.
We can't allow this to pass quietly.
MASSIVELY NOT COOL
Last edited by ElieW; Mar 7, 2012 at 4:00 am
Mar 7, 2012, 5:35 am
#159
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: RIC
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 3,386
In an effort to begin using a single source for all mileage calculations, we refreshed all of our calculation data. The source against which this new mileage is calculates is a standard Great Circle Map (GCM) table. As many of you know, there are several sources for GCM data, and, while they don’t match perfectly, they are also rarely ever off by more than a mile.
Mar 7, 2012, 5:46 am
#160
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: body: A stone's throw from SFO, mind: SE Asia
Programs: Some of this 'n some of that
Posts: 17,263
OK, that was facetious. Charging for a special meal... the few situations where they're still available? Not that I want to give SMI/J any ideas.
Small ball.
I will be pressing for for the mileage that was stated when my tickets were purchased.
Mar 7, 2012, 5:53 am
#161
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: RIC
Programs: UA 1K MM
Posts: 3,386
Me too. I've dug all the receipts out of my archived email folders and have already drafted the note to "Customer Care." It's almost 150 EQMs spread across my existing 5 pre-integration itineraries.
Mar 7, 2012, 8:03 am
#162
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 203
any routes INcrease??
amazing that 99% of the routes magically are lower on UA than any other calculation tool or mainline carrier displays. i have only seen one example where the "recalibration" increased the mileage. the nickel and dime-ing isn't over, it has just begun. i too will be requesting through all available channels the mileage announced at ticketing... i hope they're staffing extra CS reps for the next 12 months or so
i normally would throw out here that i am ready to status-match and switch to another carrier, but just as they do with all these fare increases the other major carriers are likely to follow suit.
they can say "it's just a couple of miles here or there!" for each individual but the bottom line is it's a huge windfall for the carrier. trimming elites, giving away less "free" miles... but in the end losing immeasurable respect from their travelers.
and UA, I call BS on these "new calculations". how about some transparency, want to show us your single program that provided these revisions... or did you likely choose the lowest value for each route from all available methods?
i normally would throw out here that i am ready to status-match and switch to another carrier, but just as they do with all these fare increases the other major carriers are likely to follow suit.
they can say "it's just a couple of miles here or there!" for each individual but the bottom line is it's a huge windfall for the carrier. trimming elites, giving away less "free" miles... but in the end losing immeasurable respect from their travelers.
and UA, I call BS on these "new calculations". how about some transparency, want to show us your single program that provided these revisions... or did you likely choose the lowest value for each route from all available methods?
Last edited by jnb_tx; Mar 7, 2012 at 8:14 am
Mar 7, 2012, 8:29 am
#163
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Washington, DC
Programs: United Premier 1K 1MM; AA Plat Pro; Hyatt Globalist; Marriott Platinum; Avis President's Club
Posts: 2,528
I appreciate UAInsiders insights but I find the rationale curious. IAD-LAX used to be 2288 award miles. It has now dropped to 2280. However, GCM would seem to indicate that it should remain 2288.
Mar 7, 2012, 8:29 am
#164
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Detroit, MI
Programs: MileagePlus: 1k 2012; Continental Platinum 2010-11
Posts: 39
If there was a difference between mileage accrual for old United and old Continental customers, I could understand this change...at least the excuse for change. Any people who flew both United in the past on similar legs notice a difference in mileage accrual under the old system. Perhaps SFO-HNL or something along that nature?
Mar 7, 2012, 9:02 am
#165
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: LAX
Programs: DL-PM | UA-1K | HH-Gold
Posts: 938
If this explanation is valid, then why did IAD-SAN change from 2,253 to 2,245? GCM keeps the mileage at 2,253: http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=iad-san. Explanation?
Sending this thread over to the FI guy at the Chi Trib and the Travel guy at the WSJ.