Will UA p.s. service come to EWR?
Sep 21, 2011, 7:13 pm
#31
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP, Hilton GLD, Marriott Plat, NEXUS/GE
Posts: 2,872
I think if P.S. moves to EWR, it's dead.
Personally, P.S. being at JFK is one of the few factors which allows me to justify continued use of them now that I don't live near IAD. Although, all the cool kids have moved to Virgin America, which I must admit would be a nice alternative.
I'd really love to see more flights move back to JFK, quite frankly. They have the gates, and now they have the aircraft. How about at least connecting to the rest of the hubs: ORD/IAH/DEN. LGA is such a pit, and EWR might as well be in Philly. It's a crying shame that the best connected NY airline seems to be Delta.
Personally, P.S. being at JFK is one of the few factors which allows me to justify continued use of them now that I don't live near IAD. Although, all the cool kids have moved to Virgin America, which I must admit would be a nice alternative.
I'd really love to see more flights move back to JFK, quite frankly. They have the gates, and now they have the aircraft. How about at least connecting to the rest of the hubs: ORD/IAH/DEN. LGA is such a pit, and EWR might as well be in Philly. It's a crying shame that the best connected NY airline seems to be Delta.
Perhaps it's odd, but my guess is that about 50k of my EQM for the year will have come from p.s. bookings (although not necessarily p.s. flights, due to some VDBing). It'd be nice to see a bigger UA presence at JFK, but I doubt that's going to happen.
^^ That said, UA's p.s. pricing tends to be worse than AA's at face value (at least for the back of the bus), but my VDBs have dropped the effective price substantially on p.s.
Sep 21, 2011, 7:22 pm
#32
Join Date: May 2006
Location: MYF/CMA/SAN/YYZ/YKF
Programs: COdbaUA 1K MM, AA EXP, Bonbon Gold, GHA Titanium, Hertz PC, NEXUS and GE
Posts: 5,839
That's interesting though -- you could imagine that with CO's European connections at EWR, it would be something to introduce to benefit West Coast folks -- although if they were happy enough with domestic F connections before, why change now.
As for rich bankers solely flying between SFO/LAX and NYC, JFK is not that holy is it? Is JFK so entrenched as the business-preferred airport? I'll admit, UA's operations at JFK are a bit more civilized than anything CO at Newark.
As for rich bankers solely flying between SFO/LAX and NYC, JFK is not that holy is it? Is JFK so entrenched as the business-preferred airport? I'll admit, UA's operations at JFK are a bit more civilized than anything CO at Newark.
Nail --> head. EWR mid-week transcons are typically in the $1,000 range, where the JFK transcons can be had for less than half of that.
Newark is a fortress hub. UACO can charge premium pricing. JFK has DL/AA/B6/VX to compete with on non-stop transcon routes. PMUA used P.S. as the differentiating product.
SunLover
Newark is a fortress hub. UACO can charge premium pricing. JFK has DL/AA/B6/VX to compete with on non-stop transcon routes. PMUA used P.S. as the differentiating product.
SunLover
1. will never happen...not enough to fill premium cabins in DC
2. could happen if rule was lifted, and i feel that would be better than JFK, and then, would pull out of JFK so i like that. but, probably won't happen.
3. will never happen, 752 i don't think can take off from BUR and make it to JFK, plus, they won't pull out of LAX and go to BUR.
we have this discussion ever year...why not DC? why not BOS? it's because p.s. is a unique product, strictly from JFK-SFO/LAX. that's it. also, NY, SF, and LA can afford the high fares that these flights demand. plain and simple, DC and BOS can't.
2. could happen if rule was lifted, and i feel that would be better than JFK, and then, would pull out of JFK so i like that. but, probably won't happen.
3. will never happen, 752 i don't think can take off from BUR and make it to JFK, plus, they won't pull out of LAX and go to BUR.
we have this discussion ever year...why not DC? why not BOS? it's because p.s. is a unique product, strictly from JFK-SFO/LAX. that's it. also, NY, SF, and LA can afford the high fares that these flights demand. plain and simple, DC and BOS can't.
I'm not so sure about DCA. There is a lot of SFO/LAX originating demand that could potentially pay a premium.
Actually, UA was literally weeks away from announcing BUR-JFK on ps in 2008 or so. The ps 752 is pretty light due to the lower density. It was apparently going to be specifically to support their Disney contract.
Actually, UA was literally weeks away from announcing BUR-JFK on ps in 2008 or so. The ps 752 is pretty light due to the lower density. It was apparently going to be specifically to support their Disney contract.
Exactly. Those 2 flights are the Disney shuttle. The fact that one is a red-eye has to say something.
Sep 21, 2011, 8:57 pm
#33
Moderator: United Airlines
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: SFO
Programs: UA Plat 1.995MM, Hyatt Discoverist, Marriott Plat/LT Gold, Hilton Silver, IHG Plat
Posts: 66,850
Sep 21, 2011, 9:18 pm
#34
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,657
It could work. But the market is more competitive to JFK and draws a premium.CO has very little competition for EWR-LAX/SFO. If Virgin America gets its way and does EWR-LAX/SFO, that could change things.
I fly this route about once a month, to LAX. I rotate between EWR and JFK where it suits me. The fare NYC->LAX allows you to fly into and out of any of the NYC or LA area airports.
Based on where I am in NYC, its way easier to get to EWR. People who love JFK often but not always, tend of live in Queens, Brooklyn or Long Island.
If you're on the West Side of Manhattan and work downtown, EWR is so, so, so much easier. And quick.
I can leave my client at 4pm (downtown), and be at my seat sipping a pre departure beverage, on the plane by 5:30-5:45PM. That is impossible to JFK.. I left the same location 4pm and arrived at JFK (by cab) almost 1 hour 15 minutes later. Yuck. I can be at Terminal C from downtown Manhattan in 40 minutes tops.
Here's how I play it
#1 Schedules and convenience matter to me
- The is no 7PM departure from JFK to LAX. There is a flight at 5PM~ and 8PM~ to LAX, so I tend to leave from EWR, which has a 7PM departure. The 737-900 is not the greatest thing in the world for long journey's. The food is comparable to p.s catering on the transcon (if not better), and sweet tooth folk get a sundae (no cookie though). Booze list is the same (if not better). The only thing not premium is the 737-900 seat.
For all intents and purposes, F on p.s is a non existant product, its exactly the same now, except for the SQ spacebed seat.
Oh, and no internet. If I know I need to work, I book p.s
- People who love red eyes from LAX-NYC, there are 2 red eyes to EWR but....
#2 Comfort matters
I wish the CO flat bed 757-200 flew on the red eye, if I have to take the red eye back from LA, I will book p.s.
I decline the snack, turn the chair into a lazy-boy, and relax in the comfy duvet and pillow, zzz all the way and wake up at JFK. I will NEVER take the red eye to EWR from LAX, because the 737-900/757-300 is awful to sleep in.
JFK has NO SHOWERS though!
The real p.s service I really want
LGA->LAX/SFO
(now we are talking premium)
I fly this route about once a month, to LAX. I rotate between EWR and JFK where it suits me. The fare NYC->LAX allows you to fly into and out of any of the NYC or LA area airports.
Based on where I am in NYC, its way easier to get to EWR. People who love JFK often but not always, tend of live in Queens, Brooklyn or Long Island.
If you're on the West Side of Manhattan and work downtown, EWR is so, so, so much easier. And quick.
I can leave my client at 4pm (downtown), and be at my seat sipping a pre departure beverage, on the plane by 5:30-5:45PM. That is impossible to JFK.. I left the same location 4pm and arrived at JFK (by cab) almost 1 hour 15 minutes later. Yuck. I can be at Terminal C from downtown Manhattan in 40 minutes tops.
Here's how I play it
#1 Schedules and convenience matter to me
- The is no 7PM departure from JFK to LAX. There is a flight at 5PM~ and 8PM~ to LAX, so I tend to leave from EWR, which has a 7PM departure. The 737-900 is not the greatest thing in the world for long journey's. The food is comparable to p.s catering on the transcon (if not better), and sweet tooth folk get a sundae (no cookie though). Booze list is the same (if not better). The only thing not premium is the 737-900 seat.
For all intents and purposes, F on p.s is a non existant product, its exactly the same now, except for the SQ spacebed seat.
Oh, and no internet. If I know I need to work, I book p.s
- People who love red eyes from LAX-NYC, there are 2 red eyes to EWR but....
#2 Comfort matters
I wish the CO flat bed 757-200 flew on the red eye, if I have to take the red eye back from LA, I will book p.s.
I decline the snack, turn the chair into a lazy-boy, and relax in the comfy duvet and pillow, zzz all the way and wake up at JFK. I will NEVER take the red eye to EWR from LAX, because the 737-900/757-300 is awful to sleep in.
JFK has NO SHOWERS though!
The real p.s service I really want
LGA->LAX/SFO
(now we are talking premium)
Last edited by meFIRST; Sep 21, 2011 at 9:29 pm
Sep 21, 2011, 11:04 pm
#35
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: PHX & AGP
Programs: AA Lifetime PLT, Bonvoy Lifetime Titanium, Hilton Gold
Posts: 11,453
Why are you blaming UA, CO had years to do this service and never did it, and why? Now CO did an enhanced service from EWR to SAN/LAX/SFO but never did a full blown BF.
Why would UA look at BUR-JFK for the Disney contract, wouldn't BUR-MCO be the best flight?
IF AA would do thier Flagship service to either BOS or DC, you can bet your house UA will do it too.
Surprised that I can't find a thread on this (maybe I'm not doing the right search).
It seems to me peculiar that the "new UA" would continue its fancy p.s. service to California from JFK and not launch it from its major NYC hub at EWR. Has there been any hints as to what the future holds?
For purely selfish reasons, as a new 1K, I'd rather not have p.s. service from EWR if it means I lose my upgrade privileges. CO's current FC transcon service is adequate for me. The four-course dinner is actually pretty good and the better seat would only be truly useful on the eastbound red-eyes.
It seems to me peculiar that the "new UA" would continue its fancy p.s. service to California from JFK and not launch it from its major NYC hub at EWR. Has there been any hints as to what the future holds?
For purely selfish reasons, as a new 1K, I'd rather not have p.s. service from EWR if it means I lose my upgrade privileges. CO's current FC transcon service is adequate for me. The four-course dinner is actually pretty good and the better seat would only be truly useful on the eastbound red-eyes.
UACO needs capacity on hub-to-hub routes and I don't see ps fitting that bill. There are really only a couple routes that I think would work as ps besides the existing routes:
1. SFO/LAX-DCA (if UA were able to get the slot-pair)
2. SFO/LAX-LGA (if the perimeter rule was lifted, although JFK would probably go away then)
3. BUR-JFK (was supposedly almost started as part of the Disney contract, but seems unlikely given that BUR is sadly now all UX)
I think LAX/SFO-IAD/EWR wouldn't happen since they are hub-to-hub. LAX/SFO-BOS probably won't happen b/c the yields aren't great.
1. SFO/LAX-DCA (if UA were able to get the slot-pair)
2. SFO/LAX-LGA (if the perimeter rule was lifted, although JFK would probably go away then)
3. BUR-JFK (was supposedly almost started as part of the Disney contract, but seems unlikely given that BUR is sadly now all UX)
I think LAX/SFO-IAD/EWR wouldn't happen since they are hub-to-hub. LAX/SFO-BOS probably won't happen b/c the yields aren't great.
1. will never happen...not enough to fill premium cabins in DC
2. could happen if rule was lifted, and i feel that would be better than JFK, and then, would pull out of JFK so i like that. but, probably won't happen.
3. will never happen, 752 i don't think can take off from BUR and make it to JFK, plus, they won't pull out of LAX and go to BUR.
we have this discussion ever year...why not DC? why not BOS? it's because p.s. is a unique product, strictly from JFK-SFO/LAX. that's it. also, NY, SF, and LA can afford the high fares that these flights demand. plain and simple, DC and BOS can't.
2. could happen if rule was lifted, and i feel that would be better than JFK, and then, would pull out of JFK so i like that. but, probably won't happen.
3. will never happen, 752 i don't think can take off from BUR and make it to JFK, plus, they won't pull out of LAX and go to BUR.
we have this discussion ever year...why not DC? why not BOS? it's because p.s. is a unique product, strictly from JFK-SFO/LAX. that's it. also, NY, SF, and LA can afford the high fares that these flights demand. plain and simple, DC and BOS can't.
Last edited by iluv2fly; Sep 22, 2011 at 5:43 am Reason: merge
Sep 21, 2011, 11:05 pm
#36
Join Date: Feb 2008
Programs: 6 year GS, now 2MM Jeff-ugee, *wood LTPlt, SkyPeso PLT
Posts: 6,526
And that is a big shame. They really need to add them, and it would be ultra competitive. Its the one big advantage AA has...
Sep 22, 2011, 12:12 am
#37
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NY
Programs: GP plat, SPG plat
Posts: 289
I don't see the need for UA/CO to offer p.s. on the EWR (to SFO?) service since that flight is currently packed with business travelers as it is. For example, I think the Thursday afternoon SFO-JFK flight is always sold out and about 75% of the people on the plane are 1k/CO-elite or above (or at least that's what it seems like based on boarding priority).
Adding p.s. to this route would only lower the capacity. While p.s. flights may be more desirable, I doubt UA can increase the price much since travelers (even business ones like myself) may be forced to migrate to another airline
Adding p.s. to this route would only lower the capacity. While p.s. flights may be more desirable, I doubt UA can increase the price much since travelers (even business ones like myself) may be forced to migrate to another airline
Sep 22, 2011, 12:15 am
#38
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Miami/NYC
Programs: United Global Services, UA Million Miler, Marriott Lifetime Platinum, HHonors Gold, Hyatt Platinum
Posts: 337
Based on where I am in NYC, its way easier to get to EWR. People who love JFK often but not always, tend of live in Queens, Brooklyn or Long Island.
If you're on the West Side of Manhattan and work downtown, EWR is so, so, so much easier. And quick.
I can leave my client at 4pm (downtown), and be at my seat sipping a pre departure beverage, on the plane by 5:30-5:45PM. That is impossible to JFK.. I left the same location 4pm and arrived at JFK (by cab) almost 1 hour 15 minutes later. Yuck. I can be at Terminal C from downtown Manhattan in 40 minutes tops.
If you're on the West Side of Manhattan and work downtown, EWR is so, so, so much easier. And quick.
I can leave my client at 4pm (downtown), and be at my seat sipping a pre departure beverage, on the plane by 5:30-5:45PM. That is impossible to JFK.. I left the same location 4pm and arrived at JFK (by cab) almost 1 hour 15 minutes later. Yuck. I can be at Terminal C from downtown Manhattan in 40 minutes tops.
The truth is, I don't know anyone who is based in Manhattan who prefers going out to JFK. Particularly the FiDi-based "rich banker" types that people have referred to - the majority of the folks in my firm (myself included) and the army of consultants who fly in and out every week from Goldman/AMEX/ML/etc. prefer the trip to EWR over JFK.
I have 4 employees/consultants on my team who are SFO-based, most of which do the Sunday redeyes out to NYC and the Thurs evening flights back to SFO. The only time they purposely go out to JFK is when they want a p.s. seat. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard one of them say, "I wish there were p.s. flights out of EWR", I'd be able to fund the EWR-SFO route myself...
Sep 22, 2011, 12:17 am
#39
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,657
EWR is in NJ, but it has the most non stops to just about anywhere from the NYC area. It's the convenience that wins out for me. AA + DL's operation from JFK doesn't even come close.
Why bother going through ORD/LAX/SFO, when I can go non stop?. To : HKG/PVG/PEK/BOM/DEL, etc, etc, etc. Even Omaha! (a very popular flight from NYC from BRK has their annual meeting)
Since its the same distance from JFK-Manhattan (roughly) , and takes less time to get to, its a no brainer.
As I said earlier, bets are off if you're departing from Queens/Brooklyn.
Why bother going through ORD/LAX/SFO, when I can go non stop?. To : HKG/PVG/PEK/BOM/DEL, etc, etc, etc. Even Omaha! (a very popular flight from NYC from BRK has their annual meeting)
Since its the same distance from JFK-Manhattan (roughly) , and takes less time to get to, its a no brainer.
As I said earlier, bets are off if you're departing from Queens/Brooklyn.
Sep 22, 2011, 5:44 am
#40
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: PSM
Posts: 69,232
Sep 22, 2011, 6:48 am
#41
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP, B6 Mosaic, UA Platinum, others
Posts: 1,270
I have 4 employees/consultants on my team who are SFO-based, most of which do the Sunday redeyes out to NYC and the Thurs evening flights back to SFO. The only time they purposely go out to JFK is when they want a p.s. seat. If I had a dollar for every time I've heard one of them say, "I wish there were p.s. flights out of EWR", I'd be able to fund the EWR-SFO route myself...
- Getting TO Newark and getting TO JFK both can be done via a regional rail train) NJT vs LIRR plus Airtrain, however JFK also can be done easily via subway if one is positioned in the right place (Fulton Street or 51st and Lex) it's faster.
- Getting FROM Newark via cab is a nightmare: their cabs don't natively take credit cards and the voucher system is a PITA. It's also much more expensive:
$45 flat to Manhattan for JFK, at least $70 to Manhattan from EWR.
- Car service to EWR is about $10 more than JFK. I've found from midtown, the best-case to JFK is faster than best-case to Newark, although worst-case for both is pretty dismal period. Having a few choices to Queens (Triboro, Midtown Tunnel, 59th Street Bridge, Williamsburg Bridge, Brooklyn Bridge) versus basically just Lincoln and Holland tunnels means when things go south, you have choices.
- Security at JFK T7 is considerably faster than anything I've experienced at Newark.
- Baggage claim at JFK T7 is also considerably faster than what I generally experience at Newark.
That said, either of them blow compared with LGA. Personally, now that the new program is disclosed, the main thing standing between me and UA seems to be their belief that EWR should be the only airport in the NY area with meaningful service.
How's that, exactly? They both have fairly good service to meaningful destinations, and are even chasing the 757 to timbuktu destinations CO seems to be so proud of. And, there are still more than a few unique destinations not covered out of EWR that are covered out of JFK (Amman, to name one).
Last edited by iluv2fly; Sep 22, 2011 at 11:11 am Reason: merge
Sep 22, 2011, 7:12 am
#42
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Summit County UT
Programs: Delta PM Hilton Diamond Bonvoy Ti/LTP Hertz PC
Posts: 636
I don't see the need for UA/CO to offer p.s. on the EWR (to SFO?) service since that flight is currently packed with business travelers as it is. For example, I think the Thursday afternoon SFO-JFK flight is always sold out and about 75% of the people on the plane are 1k/CO-elite or above (or at least that's what it seems like based on boarding priority).
Sep 22, 2011, 9:56 am
#43
Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,657
How's that, exactly? They both have fairly good service to meaningful destinations, and are even chasing the 757 to timbuktu destinations CO seems to be so proud of. And, there are still more than a few unique destinations not covered out of EWR that are covered out of JFK (Amman, to name one).
Delhi, Bombay, Shanghai and Beijing all require stop on both DL and AA (heck, some of those destinations are not even served)
It's non stop from EWR, on CO. That wins my business.
Last edited by meFIRST; Sep 22, 2011 at 10:01 am
Sep 22, 2011, 11:48 am
#44
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: The World.
Programs: UA MP/UC - "RIP Tulip Plat"
Posts: 1,225
If they could ever do LGA it would be golden! Minus how irop prone it is, that would be sooo convenient, Darn restrictions.
Sep 22, 2011, 12:05 pm
#45
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: NYC
Programs: AA EXP, B6 Mosaic, UA Platinum, others
Posts: 1,270
If they don't, I propose killing off the fairly pointless JFK-IAD flights first. 50 seat CRJ200s are a waste of a JFK slot anyway and what exactly are they there for? Heck, make the LGA-IAD frequencies a little higher if you really want to. Just don't make me go to NJ.