Will UA p.s. service come to EWR?
Sep 21, 2011, 2:13 pm
#16
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Not necessarily. They also rotate them at the far end in many cases or put them on shorter hops between hubs depending on the utilization needs. It could go either way. But unless they have sufficient capacity to ensure that every flight will have the service then marketing it that way is a bad plan. And unless you're marketing it that way you don't have the ability to drive the revenue premiums.
Sep 21, 2011, 2:16 pm
#17
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Yes, if you only look at UA/CO - UA having gotten rid of SFO-CDG etc. However, if you look at the whole of *A, there are very few if any European destinations of any importance that don't have a premium class product with a one-stop connection either with UA through LHR/FRA, or with LH or LX through FRA/MUC/ZRH, or even with TK through IST (OK, so C seats on intra-European routes suck, but that's another story...).
Sep 21, 2011, 2:20 pm
#18
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I actually prefer EWR over JFK-the station is much nicer and its a much quicker trip into Manhattan for me. However, considering how inflated fares to EWR are, I'd like to say I'd rather PS stay at JFK.
It's a pain navigating around JFK with the airtrain etc..where as the experience at EWR seems a lot faster.
I don't think UA would want to give up its slots at JFK like CO did. PS is probably very O&D limited, atleast ex-East coast
It's a pain navigating around JFK with the airtrain etc..where as the experience at EWR seems a lot faster.
I don't think UA would want to give up its slots at JFK like CO did. PS is probably very O&D limited, atleast ex-East coast
Sep 21, 2011, 2:31 pm
#19
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Newark is a fortress hub. UACO can charge premium pricing. JFK has DL/AA/B6/VX to compete with on non-stop transcon routes. PMUA used P.S. as the differentiating product.
SunLover
Sep 21, 2011, 2:33 pm
#20
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I don't think UA would want to give up its slots at JFK like CO did. PS is probably very O&D limited, atleast ex-East coast
Sep 21, 2011, 2:38 pm
#21
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Three year old article, but still relevant (maybe a bit less with the new SAG contract)
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121728185716790977.html
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121728185716790977.html
Sep 21, 2011, 3:51 pm
#22
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It is really, really not difficult to change that. Jeff will give a thought of that, coz currently CO 752 transcon is the best in the business. They can easily change the First and market it as P.S., then they are good to go. My guess is they will also determine if EWR-SFO should be marketed as P.S. as well. I don't see why you just touch LAX but not SFO.
Sep 21, 2011, 4:33 pm
#23
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Interesting comments.
Has anyone specifically heard that p.s. service makes money?
Seems like something of an odd product given its limited reach. I'm wondering if CO's EWR transcon service would be more profitable out of JFK. But it does seem like Smisek has decided to keep ps, at least for now. As someone noted, they are retrofitting for 2-class service.
Has anyone specifically heard that p.s. service makes money?
Seems like something of an odd product given its limited reach. I'm wondering if CO's EWR transcon service would be more profitable out of JFK. But it does seem like Smisek has decided to keep ps, at least for now. As someone noted, they are retrofitting for 2-class service.
Sep 21, 2011, 4:55 pm
#24
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Many more E+ seats and fewer E- seats. I'm pretty sure they also committed to keeping wifi on the p.s. fleet while awaiting the broader deployment on the rest of the domestic fleet.
Sep 21, 2011, 5:48 pm
#25
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UACO needs capacity on hub-to-hub routes and I don't see ps fitting that bill. There are really only a couple routes that I think would work as ps besides the existing routes:
1. SFO/LAX-DCA (if UA were able to get the slot-pair)
2. SFO/LAX-LGA (if the perimeter rule was lifted, although JFK would probably go away then)
3. BUR-JFK (was supposedly almost started as part of the Disney contract, but seems unlikely given that BUR is sadly now all UX)
I think LAX/SFO-IAD/EWR wouldn't happen since they are hub-to-hub. LAX/SFO-BOS probably won't happen b/c the yields aren't great.
1. SFO/LAX-DCA (if UA were able to get the slot-pair)
2. SFO/LAX-LGA (if the perimeter rule was lifted, although JFK would probably go away then)
3. BUR-JFK (was supposedly almost started as part of the Disney contract, but seems unlikely given that BUR is sadly now all UX)
I think LAX/SFO-IAD/EWR wouldn't happen since they are hub-to-hub. LAX/SFO-BOS probably won't happen b/c the yields aren't great.
2. could happen if rule was lifted, and i feel that would be better than JFK, and then, would pull out of JFK so i like that. but, probably won't happen.
3. will never happen, 752 i don't think can take off from BUR and make it to JFK, plus, they won't pull out of LAX and go to BUR.
we have this discussion ever year...why not DC? why not BOS? it's because p.s. is a unique product, strictly from JFK-SFO/LAX. that's it. also, NY, SF, and LA can afford the high fares that these flights demand. plain and simple, DC and BOS can't.
Sep 21, 2011, 6:20 pm
#26
Join Date: Feb 2006
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1. will never happen...not enough to fill premium cabins in DC
2. could happen if rule was lifted, and i feel that would be better than JFK, and then, would pull out of JFK so i like that. but, probably won't happen.
3. will never happen, 752 i don't think can take off from BUR and make it to JFK, plus, they won't pull out of LAX and go to BUR.
we have this discussion ever year...why not DC? why not BOS? it's because p.s. is a unique product, strictly from JFK-SFO/LAX. that's it. also, NY, SF, and LA can afford the high fares that these flights demand. plain and simple, DC and BOS can't.
2. could happen if rule was lifted, and i feel that would be better than JFK, and then, would pull out of JFK so i like that. but, probably won't happen.
3. will never happen, 752 i don't think can take off from BUR and make it to JFK, plus, they won't pull out of LAX and go to BUR.
we have this discussion ever year...why not DC? why not BOS? it's because p.s. is a unique product, strictly from JFK-SFO/LAX. that's it. also, NY, SF, and LA can afford the high fares that these flights demand. plain and simple, DC and BOS can't.
Actually, UA was literally weeks away from announcing BUR-JFK on ps in 2008 or so. The ps 752 is pretty light due to the lower density. It was apparently going to be specifically to support their Disney contract.
Sep 21, 2011, 6:30 pm
#27
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I'm not so sure about DCA. There is a lot of SFO/LAX originating demand that could potentially pay a premium.
Actually, UA was literally weeks away from announcing BUR-JFK on ps in 2008 or so. The ps 752 is pretty light due to the lower density. It was apparently going to be specifically to support their Disney contract.
Actually, UA was literally weeks away from announcing BUR-JFK on ps in 2008 or so. The ps 752 is pretty light due to the lower density. It was apparently going to be specifically to support their Disney contract.
and because of all of the low government fares, and a lot of the tech/consulting firms up the dulles corridor, you get more business out of IAD. DC just can't support the fares that p.s. demands, because if it could, it would be there.
Sep 21, 2011, 6:45 pm
#28
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I think if P.S. moves to EWR, it's dead.
Personally, P.S. being at JFK is one of the few factors which allows me to justify continued use of them now that I don't live near IAD. Although, all the cool kids have moved to Virgin America, which I must admit would be a nice alternative.
I'd really love to see more flights move back to JFK, quite frankly. They have the gates, and now they have the aircraft. How about at least connecting to the rest of the hubs: ORD/IAH/DEN. LGA is such a pit, and EWR might as well be in Philly. It's a crying shame that the best connected NY airline seems to be Delta.
Personally, P.S. being at JFK is one of the few factors which allows me to justify continued use of them now that I don't live near IAD. Although, all the cool kids have moved to Virgin America, which I must admit would be a nice alternative.
I'd really love to see more flights move back to JFK, quite frankly. They have the gates, and now they have the aircraft. How about at least connecting to the rest of the hubs: ORD/IAH/DEN. LGA is such a pit, and EWR might as well be in Philly. It's a crying shame that the best connected NY airline seems to be Delta.
Sep 21, 2011, 6:53 pm
#29
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The fact UA runs anything at all on the route, and that they ran 2-class planes with F when to everywhere else ex-MCO they ran TED, amount to their concessions to the Disney business market...
Sep 21, 2011, 6:58 pm
#30
Join Date: May 2001
Location: IAD
Posts: 6,148
Interesting comments.
Has anyone specifically heard that p.s. service makes money?
Seems like something of an odd product given its limited reach. I'm wondering if CO's EWR transcon service would be more profitable out of JFK. But it does seem like Smisek has decided to keep ps, at least for now. As someone noted, they are retrofitting for 2-class service.
Has anyone specifically heard that p.s. service makes money?
Seems like something of an odd product given its limited reach. I'm wondering if CO's EWR transcon service would be more profitable out of JFK. But it does seem like Smisek has decided to keep ps, at least for now. As someone noted, they are retrofitting for 2-class service.
http://www.aviationplanning.com/DataMinerFlash1.htm
Scroll to February 9, 2009 or search for JFK-LAX.
Summary: UA's ticket yield was 24 cents, AA was 14, DL 10, and VX 9.5.