UK Travel Logistics Recommendations
#16
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#17
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The train ride on the east coast is very picturesque at the northern end, so it does have that going for it. If you book your train tickets ~3 months out when they go on sale, you can probably get an advanced purchase 1st class ticket for about the same as a virgin little red flight. East Coast first class is very nice, assuming virgin don't break it when they take it over in a few months...
Taking a virgin little red flight + tram/bus into the city is probably quicker and less hassle, but less interesting. Getting from Heathrow to Kings Cross to take the train to Edinburgh isn't too bad outside of rush hour - direct tube in just over an hour. Use your Oyster card for yourself, just top up some PAYG credit on arrival. If the others have suitable contactless credit/debit carsd, they can use those for the same price
Taking a virgin little red flight + tram/bus into the city is probably quicker and less hassle, but less interesting. Getting from Heathrow to Kings Cross to take the train to Edinburgh isn't too bad outside of rush hour - direct tube in just over an hour. Use your Oyster card for yourself, just top up some PAYG credit on arrival. If the others have suitable contactless credit/debit carsd, they can use those for the same price
I don't think everyone in our party will have contactless debit/credit cards. My wife and I do, but my brother and sister-in-law are "one credit card" people (Chase United MPE). That's something I'll have to check into.
If you want to get to Edinburgh from LHR, then it would be a lot less hassle to fly. I can see loads of availability on BA for 5 September (and Im not logged in no status), but prices are higher than I would expect. (Is there some big sports event at Murrayfield that day???)
If you do stick with the train. Getting to Kings Cross is straightforward direct on Piccadilly Line. A single ticket on the tube (cash fare) is 6.00. If you use pay as you go on either Oyster or a contactless bank card, its only 3.10. So if youre going to need an Oyster for the London stay, you might as well use that from LHR and save.
For the stay in London. A one week zones 1/2 travelcard is 32.10. If you use PAYG (on Oyster or contactless bank card) you pay a maximum of 6.40 per day. If you know youre doing a lot of travel every day, then the weekly season ticket saves money, but if youre likely to have some low travel days, then PAYG may be cheaper.
The key message is dont buy cash fares. A single for the tube is 6. A one day travelcard issued in paper form is 12. And to reinforce the point about avoiding cash fares it isnt actually possible to pay cash on the buses.
Using Oyster is generally the simplest thing. You can load a weekly season and/or pay as you go value. The only exception is if you want to use the two four one discounts. That is only possible with a national rail ticket so to get that benefit youd buy a weekly season on paper from a national rail station. It requires a passport size photo but costs the same - 32.10
For UK citizens, using a contactless bank card is even better than Oyster. No need to obtain a separate Oyster card yet same prices as Oyster for PAYG usage. If a weekly travelcard would be cheaper the system will cap the charges to the equivalent of a weekly travelcard. However, overseas bank cards are not guaranteed to work (some do some dont) and you may be hit with foreign currency transaction fees by your bank.
For the stay in London. A one week zones 1/2 travelcard is 32.10. If you use PAYG (on Oyster or contactless bank card) you pay a maximum of 6.40 per day. If you know youre doing a lot of travel every day, then the weekly season ticket saves money, but if youre likely to have some low travel days, then PAYG may be cheaper.
The key message is dont buy cash fares. A single for the tube is 6. A one day travelcard issued in paper form is 12. And to reinforce the point about avoiding cash fares it isnt actually possible to pay cash on the buses.
Using Oyster is generally the simplest thing. You can load a weekly season and/or pay as you go value. The only exception is if you want to use the two four one discounts. That is only possible with a national rail ticket so to get that benefit youd buy a weekly season on paper from a national rail station. It requires a passport size photo but costs the same - 32.10
For UK citizens, using a contactless bank card is even better than Oyster. No need to obtain a separate Oyster card yet same prices as Oyster for PAYG usage. If a weekly travelcard would be cheaper the system will cap the charges to the equivalent of a weekly travelcard. However, overseas bank cards are not guaranteed to work (some do some dont) and you may be hit with foreign currency transaction fees by your bank.
Rail fare from London to Edinburgh.
A walk up fare (flexible any offpeak train, which includes the entire weekend) is 125.70 single or 134.20 return.
The cheaper tickets are called Advance (its a specific ticket type) and can be as low as 20 single. There is no guarantee that the very cheapest fare will be available on any particular date and indeed as September is still quite busy I wouldnt expect any of the very cheapest fares to be offered. Other fares will be offered, as the cheapest fare buckets sell out, more expensive ones will be available. These tickets are non-flexible zero zero zero flexibility you can travel on the service booked. Travel on any other train and youll be charged a walk up fare.
The railway industry generally doesnt release advance fares until 10/12 weeks before travel date.
A walk up fare (flexible any offpeak train, which includes the entire weekend) is 125.70 single or 134.20 return.
The cheaper tickets are called Advance (its a specific ticket type) and can be as low as 20 single. There is no guarantee that the very cheapest fare will be available on any particular date and indeed as September is still quite busy I wouldnt expect any of the very cheapest fares to be offered. Other fares will be offered, as the cheapest fare buckets sell out, more expensive ones will be available. These tickets are non-flexible zero zero zero flexibility you can travel on the service booked. Travel on any other train and youll be charged a walk up fare.
The railway industry generally doesnt release advance fares until 10/12 weeks before travel date.
Just a thought but why not do your 8 nights in London first then go to Edinburgh and then head to Paris?
You don't say who you are flying TATL with but if it's AA, I believe they will protect you if you miss the BA flight to Scotland even if it's on a separate ticket.
That tube ride from Heathrow to Kings Cross will take an eternity if you're tired.
You don't say who you are flying TATL with but if it's AA, I believe they will protect you if you miss the BA flight to Scotland even if it's on a separate ticket.
That tube ride from Heathrow to Kings Cross will take an eternity if you're tired.
1) We arrive at LHR just before 6AM. The earliest I could potentially get "early check-in" at our hotel would probably be noon. We'll be tired and have all our luggage. While I'm sure the hotel would hold our luggage until check-in, we'd still be exhausted and probably just wanting to kick back. IF we were planning to take the train to Scotland at some point, why not just get it out of the way right then, where we could sit and relax, nap a bit (way easier than on a plane), enjoy the countryside, and get into Edinburgh at a convenient time to check in to a hotel?
2) We could fly from EDI to LCY, open-jaw 9 days, and then LHR to CDG on BA for 4500 Avios + ~$10. That saves a pile over train + Eurostar, although it adds some complication over the simplicity and ease of the Eurostar.
That said, the only thing set in stone right now is our originating flight into LHR on the morning of the 5th and departing CDG the afternoon of the 19th. Everything else is negotiable, so far.
I'll have to look into that. Our party has three iPhones (5) and two Nexuses (Nexi) -- brother has personal and work. I think his work phone is international, as they send him to Finland twice a year.
#18
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Thank you! That is all very helpful information. I can just use my previous Oyster card (I'm assuming even though it's 4 years old, I can just top it up again?). My brother and sister-in-law have a credit union and the Chase UA MPE card, so I'm fairly certain they would need to get Oyster cards. My Citigold debit card is contactless and has no FTFs, so that might work for my wife. Maybe we could use those, I could give my Oyster card to my brother, and then we'd only need one?
Given that you say you will also be spending 8 days in London later in your then I'd say get oyster cards rather than use your contactless cards all the time just in case there are any fees imposed by your card holder (which would mount up after several trips)
More info on contactless on the TFL website and there is a table here om which cards are accepted.
#19
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For UK citizens, using a contactless bank card is even better than Oyster. No need to obtain a separate Oyster card yet same prices as Oyster for PAYG usage. If a weekly travelcard would be cheaper the system will cap the charges to the equivalent of a weekly travelcard. However, overseas bank cards are not guaranteed to work (some do some dont) and you may be hit with foreign currency transaction fees by your bank.
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To clarify TFL will only apply the weekly cap on a Monday to Sunday basis unlike a travel card which can start on any day of the week.
#20
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Op only you can make the call here on value but what about getting one room at the mercer from the day before? I just think you are wasting time for the sake of it on the first day and with a young one in tow it won't be fun for you or anyone else on that train.
You may evenue find the later dates in Edinburgh are cheaper for hotels which would offset the extra cost in London.
You may evenue find the later dates in Edinburgh are cheaper for hotels which would offset the extra cost in London.
#21
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Op only you can make the call here on value but what about getting one room at the mercer from the day before? I just think you are wasting time for the sake of it on the first day and with a young one in tow it won't be fun for you or anyone else on that train.
You may evenue find the later dates in Edinburgh are cheaper for hotels which would offset the extra cost in London.
You may evenue find the later dates in Edinburgh are cheaper for hotels which would offset the extra cost in London.
#22
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This could end up being worthwhile. I'll price out some options and see how it looks. If we start the trip in London and then go up to Edinburgh, does it make more sense to fly from EDI > CDG or to train + Eurostar? I'm sure the travel time would obviously be lower for the flight, and I believe I could still use Avios (but not direct?).
Edinburgh to Paris could be done nonstop on easyjet, FlyBe or Air France. The former of those two are LCCs so will charge you for bags (even though FlyBe and Air France codeshare - it's complicated...)
Anyway, easyjet have seats around the 45 mark EDI-Paris for September. Add c. 20 per checked bag.
Or you can use Avios - two options here - route through London and spend a whole day doing the trip with the low taxes, or pay full taxes and go on FlyBe.
My call would be save the avios and go on easyJet. Train & eurostar from Edinburgh probably doesn't make sense with the little one as it'll take a full day, although you do miss out on a nice journey (but you can offset that by going up on the train).
#23
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It looks like 3 offers a 15 PAYG plan that gives 3K texts, 300 minutes, and unlimited data. That seems like a pretty solid option to me, as I foresee data being the primary use needed. With iMessage, we don't even really need the texts, but they don't seem to have customizable plan setups for PAYG. When I lived there in 2010, I just walked into a Tmobile store on Oxford street and got my SIM that way. Does it make sense to pre order the SIM so we're good to go when we land?
#24
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If I've ready correctly, you don't have kids - it's your niece/nephew. Hell hath no fury like a tired child (or something like that). I have three. I have the battle scars
Edinburgh to Paris could be done nonstop on easyjet, FlyBe or Air France. The former of those two are LCCs so will charge you for bags (even though FlyBe and Air France codeshare - it's complicated...)
Anyway, easyjet have seats around the 45 mark EDI-Paris for September. Add c. 20 per checked bag.
Or you can use Avios - two options here - route through London and spend a whole day doing the trip with the low taxes, or pay full taxes and go on FlyBe.
My call would be save the avios and go on easyJet. Train & eurostar from Edinburgh probably doesn't make sense with the little one as it'll take a full day, although you do miss out on a nice journey (but you can offset that by going up on the train).
Edinburgh to Paris could be done nonstop on easyjet, FlyBe or Air France. The former of those two are LCCs so will charge you for bags (even though FlyBe and Air France codeshare - it's complicated...)
Anyway, easyjet have seats around the 45 mark EDI-Paris for September. Add c. 20 per checked bag.
Or you can use Avios - two options here - route through London and spend a whole day doing the trip with the low taxes, or pay full taxes and go on FlyBe.
My call would be save the avios and go on easyJet. Train & eurostar from Edinburgh probably doesn't make sense with the little one as it'll take a full day, although you do miss out on a nice journey (but you can offset that by going up on the train).
So, all this is pointing towards maybe beginning in London for the 9 days, head up to Scotland via train, and then easyJet to Paris (CDG, yes?). My biggest concern remains the 6-9 hours after arrival during which we wouldn't have a hotel...but booking for the 4th might solve that. No issues booking the 4th and not checking in until ~8AM on the 5th, as long as their aware?
Thanks for all the help so far!
#25
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#26
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#27
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Yes, easyjet is into CDG.
Flight times for the day I looked at were rather good as well - leaves EDI about 1pm, 2hr flight and 1hr time change has you in Paris about 4pm.
If you decide to do that, I would suggest booking ASAP.
Flight times for the day I looked at were rather good as well - leaves EDI about 1pm, 2hr flight and 1hr time change has you in Paris about 4pm.
If you decide to do that, I would suggest booking ASAP.
#28
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Never heard of the Yotel...seems pretty cool. At the rates I saw plugging in a few hour stay (x2 for for other couple), we'd probably do just as well to book the 4th at the Mercer. Good to remember though! Thanks!
Wed 16 September 2015
Edinburgh
to Paris Charles de Gaulle
Dep 13:25 - Arr 16:15
Flight EZY6955
4 Adults
4 x 34.99
1 Infant (under 2 years)
1 x 22.00
Subtotal flights and options for all passengers: 161.96
Plus 20/bag x 4. Not too shabby!
#29
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It would have been even worse, but they changed the dates of the Festival in 2015 - it should have finished that weekend, but actually, it's finishing the previous week.
However, it's also possible the algorithms the booking engine uses just recognises the first weekend of the September (the traditional last weekend of the Festival for years) as peak time and block out reward availability automatically. And also, domestic availability is really poor on BA months out
#30
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Oyster cards expire after two years of non-use. They can be reactivated at a ticket office but you'll need to wait in line.
Foreign contactless cards may not work on TfL and even if they do, unless you've got a no-fee one, the foreign usage fees will tot up quickly.
Mark me down as recommending flying to EDI somehow.
Foreign contactless cards may not work on TfL and even if they do, unless you've got a no-fee one, the foreign usage fees will tot up quickly.
Mark me down as recommending flying to EDI somehow.