DYKWIA

Is photography frowned upon on the Underground?

I was at Picadilly Circus earlier today, and a group of girls were standing on the platform around one of the station signs, having their photo taken. It wasn't busy, so they weren't blocking the platform.

A grumpy TfL employee growled at them that is 'was not allowed'. Fortunately they were foreign, and they didn't understand his equally pidgin English.

The photo was taken, and the flash went off. He came back ranting and raving at them. They just looked bemused, and walked off.

Welcome to London...

David-A

Absolute NO flash photography at platform level, nothing bulky like a tripod etc without full permission an no doubt escorting and crowd management.

But other than that, I think personal photography is essentially unrestricted.

Some stations (eg Lhr) fall within areas covered but other legislation as well.

stut

Yup, it's the flash photography that's banned - you don't really want a driver temporarily blinded.

That doesn't stop people from trying to prevent you taking photographs, whether it's because your SLR is "obviously professional" or for "security". I've been stopped by PCSOs for taking photos two streets away from Kings Cross because there was a "security threat to the station". Those PCSOs were very strongly put in their place.

However, Tube stations are not a public area. So, although it may be TfL's policy to prevent photography, that doesn't mean you will always be permitted to by staff.

railways

Just as a matter of interest, what is appropriate etiquette in these circumstances - how did you do it without getting apprehended/ having your camera confiscated/ being roughed up?

This photography thing and the belief of "officials" that they have a right to act as Big Brother wardens really gets my goat.

stut

When it comes to those with authority, or a semblance of such, I use the "Columbo" approach. Appear to go along with it (i.e. comply) and then ask, just as a "by the way" what it is that prevents me from doing so, so I don't make the same mistake again. Then you can pick into details, and you generally find their argument falls apart, and they will occasionally make enquiries and find out they're wrong.

At that point, you can visibly take their badge numbers and note that it's "interesting" that they're attempting to enforce a law that they're not in the slightest familiar with.

If the retaliation is a stop & search, you can of course withhold name and address, and insist (for now) on a receipt. This is less and less the case these days. Of course, you remain impossibly polite throughout.

Now, if it's private security guards on public land, once I've established I'm on public land (not always easy in London - thanks, councils) I just carry on as I was, pretty much ignoring them. The police in London are pretty clued up about this now, and come down on the photographer's side if called.

meester69

Tell them that they are breaking the law and they will appear in the press for restricting your right to freedom of speech. Don't mess around with these idiots.

stut

Sadly, it's not that straightforward in the UK.

A lot of open space has fallen into private hands, and they are within their rights to restrict photography in that area.

There are also provisions under the anti-terrorism and SOCA laws which could at best get your camera confiscated, at worst see you arrested for "anti-social behaviour" if you don't play it correctly.

The papers (well, some of them) are full of stories of photographers being treated in this way - rarely does anything come out of it.

Even the C4 series "Coppers", aiming to depict the best of UK policing, managed to portray as many "respect ma authoritah" thugs as it did professional upholders of the law.

So I would personally advise against this course of action.

railways

stut - very enlightening, thanks.

Clearly, the private/public land issue is significant.

OverThereTooMuch

How common is it for police in London to rough someone up? I thought that was strictly an American sort of thing.

stut

Generally, not common. If the police these days complain about the level of paperwork and scrutiny they face, it's because of problems with this in the past.

What's more common is mob-handed arrest (particularly at peaceful protests) and arrest for "breach of the peace" where, for refusing to comply, you will spend a good half a day being processed through with an endless parade of drunken halfwits.

Silver Fox

Yes if you temporarily blind the driver they could swerve and hit someone on the platform. Be very careful.

Jimmie76

Someone did actually explain to me in graphic detail why it is very bad to have the driver facing flash photography. Sadly I can't remember a damn thing about it as I was very tired at the time.

ajax

David-A

If someone falls or jumps in front of the train there is no option to slam on breaks.

Jimmie76

That's one of them, there was another as well.