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Old Oct 30, 10, 7:33 am   #1
 
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UK Departure Tax questions...

If you connect ONLY to a destination outside the UK at LHR, not clearing customs are you subject to the UK departure tax?

If you flew into LHR cleared customs, stayed for several days then left for a third non UK country paying the appropriate departure tax for the train or bus trip and are flying back from the third country with an LHR connection to USA are you subject the to UK departure tax?

Thanks
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Old Oct 30, 10, 7:37 am   #2
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These questions are more suited to the U.K. and Ireland Forum, as it is not related to any specific airline - the thread will be relocated. /JDiver, Moderator
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Old Oct 30, 10, 8:24 am   #3
 
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I'm a bit confused by your explanation of exactly what you are thinking of doing but essentially international to international connections are not liable for APD. So, if you fly Rome-London-USA, no APD is due if the flights are connected. "Connected" is defined as where the booked time of departure of the second flight falls within 24 hours of the scheduled time of arrival of the first flight. Whether you clear customs or stay overnight or not is irrelevant. Note that the connected flights must be on the same ticket to qualify
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Old Oct 30, 10, 8:32 am   #4
 
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Hi,

The HM Revenue and Customs website is a useful reference for Air Passenger Duty (APD) information.

Based on the information on the site, in regards to your questions my understanding would be that:
1) if you are connecting (outside UK) -> LHR -> (outside UK) on a single itinerary within the allowed connection times, no APD due
2) the duty applies to 'Air Passengers on Chargeable Aircraft', not to train or bus journeys. Coming back from the 'third country' (outside UK) -> LHR -> USA, no APD due, same as above.

Cheers,
J-
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Old Oct 30, 10, 10:30 am   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by electriclarry View Post
If you connect ONLY to a destination outside the UK at LHR, not clearing customs are you subject to the UK departure tax?
No, as long as your onward flight is timetabled to leave within 24 hours of the arrival of the first flight and both flights are on the same booking

Quote:
Originally Posted by electriclarry View Post
If you flew into LHR cleared customs, stayed for several days then left for a third non UK country paying the appropriate departure tax for the train or bus trip and are flying back from the third country with an LHR connection to USA are you subject the to UK departure tax?

Thanks
No, as long as your connection in Heathrow is under 24 hours, as above.

There is no departure tax on train or bus trips.
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Old Jan 16, 11, 4:18 pm   #6
 
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Originally Posted by Raffles View Post
No, as long as your onward flight is timetabled to leave within 24 hours of the arrival of the first flight and both flights are on the same booking



No, as long as your connection in Heathrow is under 24 hours, as above.

There is no departure tax on train or bus trips.

Now, the question if I arrive to LHR from ORD and then leave for DFW in less than 24 hrs, would they still collect APD?
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Old Jan 17, 11, 12:17 am   #7
 
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Originally Posted by Alex_I View Post
Now, the question if I arrive to LHR from ORD and then leave for DFW in less than 24 hrs, would they still collect APD?
As the man says - if it's on the same booking then you won't be charged APD.
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Old Jan 17, 11, 12:24 am   #8
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_I View Post
Now, the question if I arrive to LHR from ORD and then leave for DFW in less than 24 hrs, would they still collect APD?
The guidance notes from HMRC state that connections where the ultimate origin and destination of the individual journey are within the same country are not exempt from APD.

Further keep in mind that if you are on separate tickets, then you have to pay your departing APD - there is no way to reclaim or discount APD paid when you create an off-ticket connection, etc.

So, if you want to contine your line of though, I could believe that some booking system would probably be able to sell you USA-Canada (etc) VIA the UK.
Or perhaps:
USA > UK (connection sub 24 hours) > Elsewhere nearby or cheap with lower APD than UK. Then return from the elsewhere country with lower APD to the USA either direct, or connecting back through the UK (sub 24 hours).

I will resever comment on whether this would tax evasion or mere avoidance. Although I would be inclined to say the former on the basis of abuse.

[Further, I've not checked the HMRC notes for any guidance in relation to how long you would officially need to be in the other place (with lower APD) - i.e. would a same day return be eligible or would HMRC retain an interest unless it was +24h to become a stopover/destination, etc.]
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Old Jan 17, 11, 1:09 am   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David-A View Post
The guidance notes from HMRC state that connections where the ultimate origin and destination of the individual journey are within the same country are not exempt from APD.

Further keep in mind that if you are on separate tickets, then you have to pay your departing APD - there is no way to reclaim or discount APD paid when you create an off-ticket connection, etc.

So, if you want to contine your line of though, I could believe that some booking system would probably be able to sell you USA-Canada (etc) VIA the UK.
Or perhaps:
USA > UK (connection sub 24 hours) > Elsewhere nearby or cheap with lower APD than UK. Then return from the elsewhere country with lower APD to the USA either direct, or connecting back through the UK (sub 24 hours).

I will resever comment on whether this would tax evasion or mere avoidance. Although I would be inclined to say the former on the basis of abuse.

[Further, I've not checked the HMRC notes for any guidance in relation to how long you would officially need to be in the other place (with lower APD) - i.e. would a same day return be eligible or would HMRC retain an interest unless it was +24h to become a stopover/destination, etc.]
as long as you get ticketed as such (transit at LHR, stopover at others)then that's ok.
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Old Jan 18, 11, 2:20 pm   #10
 
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Originally Posted by kaka View Post
as long as you get ticketed as such (transit at LHR, stopover at others)then that's ok.
Sorry, are you confirming my final paragraph? [That HMRC are fine with sub 24 hours outside UK before return transit through UK back to origin country as exempt from APD?]

Otherwise, I don't understand your post....
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Old Jan 19, 11, 11:51 am   #11
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex_I View Post
Now, the question if I arrive to LHR from ORD and then leave for DFW in less than 24 hrs, would they still collect APD?
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanR View Post
As the man says - if it's on the same booking then you won't be charged APD.
According to Para 4.3.1 of the official HMRC guidance, two flights are not regarded as connected if your second flight is back to the same country you've just come from and APD is therefore due whether the flights are on the same booking or not.

4.3.1 Flights arriving from and departing to the same country

For international connections where the airport of arrival of flight B is in the same country as the airport of departure of flight A, the flights are not regarded as being connected. For example:

Paris to London, then London to Marseille this flight would not be regarded as being connected and £11 or £22 APD would be due depending on class of travel occupied between London and Marseille (Band A).
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Old Jan 19, 11, 12:56 pm   #12
 
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Originally Posted by David-A View Post
Further keep in mind that if you are on separate tickets, then you have to pay your departing APD - there is no way to reclaim or discount APD paid when you create an off-ticket connection, etc.
Not quite accurate. A savvy ticketing agent is quite capable of pricing and issuing tickets without charging the GB tax for passengers who meet the criteria for exemptions but cannot be ticketed on a single ticket for various reasons. I have personally issued hundreds if not thousands of such tickets over the years.
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Old Jan 20, 11, 1:37 pm   #13
 
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Originally Posted by B747-437B View Post
Not quite accurate. A savvy ticketing agent is quite capable of pricing and issuing tickets without charging the GB tax for passengers who meet the criteria for exemptions but cannot be ticketed on a single ticket for various reasons. I have personally issued hundreds if not thousands of such tickets over the years.
By 'separate tickets' I meant tickets that are 'separate' from each other, i.e. do not relate or refer to each other, and are not in the same booklet or booking etc. As such, I think 'separate bookings' might be clearer as it keeps the emphasis on the 'separate' (from each other) part, and avoids confusion due to strict meaning of 'tickets'

I think have added a few extra paragraphs of further clarification/classification to the guidance notes section since I last read it, but it is still quite clear, things that are wholly 'separate' are not acceptable for exemption:
Quote:
4.4 Tickets
In addition to the time related criteria, the agreement for carriage must be evidenced by a ticket which must show the:

airport from which the passenger intends to depart
date and time of his intended departure, and
airport at which he intends to arrive
The connected flights must be detailed on the same ticket or conjunction tickets to qualify for the exemption. Tickets can only be regarded as conjunction tickets if:

a. they are in one booklet, or

b. where they are in separate booklets:

each refers to the other and states that they are to be read in conjunction, or
there is a summary of the flights constituting the passengers journey including the flights in question.
c. where the tickets are purchased online, they are purchased at the same time through the same portal.

Although the flights may meet all the other criteria for determining whether two flights are connected, they will only qualify for the exemption if the connection is evidenced on the ticket or a flight summary.
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