The future of Comfort Class
Jun 10, 2013, 6:07 pm
#91
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Worldwide
Posts: 12,949
[KVS Availability Tool 7.1.0/Platinum - Amadeus: Timetable/NL-BCDF]
Code:
IST Istanbul Metro / Ataturk TR = IST SAW [LTBA] CGK Jakarta Soekarno-Hatta Intl ID [WIII] THU 28 Nov 2013 - 05 Dec 2013 Carrier Flight From Depart To Arrive A/C St Frequency | Dur'n | Dep T | Arr T | Effect | Ending | Exceptions --------- ------ ---- -------- ---- -------- --- -- ---------------------------------------------------------------- TK 66 IST 00:40 CGK 19:15 333 1 1234567 13:35 I 2 28 Oct 30 Mar
[KVS Availability Tool 7.2.0/Diamond - Operational Info: TK 66/01 Dec 2013]
Code:
Planned Flight Info
Segment Departure Arrival Duration
------- --------- --------- --------
IST-SIN 00:40/Sun 17:20/Sun 10:40
SIN-CGK 18:25/Sun 19:15/Sun 01:50
Segment Flight Note
------- ---------------------------------------------------------------------
SIN-CGK A/ NO LOCAL TRAFFIC
IST-SIN DEPARTS TERMINAL I
SIN-CGK DEPARTS TERMINAL 1
IST-SIN ARRIVES TERMINAL 1
SIN-CGK ARRIVES TERMINAL 2
IST-CGK CLASSES SHOWN CDKJRYBMHSEQTLVPWNG
ENTIRE FLT- 9/ NON-SMOKING
ENTIRE FLT- ET/ ELECTRONIC TKT CANDIDATE
DEPARTS TERMINAL I
ARRIVES TERMINAL 2
Jun 11, 2013, 10:30 am
#92
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: ARN
Programs: AC UA TK FI DL
Posts: 800
http://www.businesstraveller.com/new...conomy-seating
It had been rumoured for months. But Turkish Airlines CEO Temel Koti confirmed at last week's IATA AGM that his airline will eliminate Comfort Class from its fleet of B777-300ERs.
The product - the carrier's premium economy brand - will be missed by cost-conscious passengers seeking extra room.
Turkish's Comfort Class boasted lots of space and legroom, more than other global carriers, as one reader found when he sampled the product between Istanbul and Hong Kong (see our forum).
By comparison with other carriers, Turkish's seats were disposed seven across (2-3-2) and were 19.5 ins wide. Legroom was a generous 46 ins according to seatplans.com.
New planes delivered from Boeing will be configured for business and economy only (Turkish does not offer first class) while existing B777-300ERs will be retrofitted.
But when other carriers around the world are busy adding premium economy cabins in various forms (see Bridging the Gap, April 2013).
Why did Comfort Class fail?
What it shows is that the demand for premium economy varies depending on where in the world you are.
Turkish Airlines draws many of its passengers from neighbouring Middle Eastern and Gulf countries where there is a lack of awareness about what the product stands for.
Look at the major carriers in that part of the world. Not a single one provides passengers with a premium economy cabin – even the world's largest carrier (in terms of flown mileage), Emirates, has so far shunned the concept.
In addition, a 63-seater cabin was probably too large for the potential demand. Maybe Comfort Class would have fared better with fewer seats to sell like the layouts seen at British Airways, Air France, Cathay Pacific and so on.
Lack of consistency is another reason. European passengers understand the concept. But when they travel long-haul with Turkish via Istanbul they wonder why Comfort Class is on one flight but not on another.
But nothing is set in stone in the airline business. If the Gulf carriers eventually go down the premium economy route then Turkish must surely reconsider its decision.
It had been rumoured for months. But Turkish Airlines CEO Temel Koti confirmed at last week's IATA AGM that his airline will eliminate Comfort Class from its fleet of B777-300ERs.
The product - the carrier's premium economy brand - will be missed by cost-conscious passengers seeking extra room.
Turkish's Comfort Class boasted lots of space and legroom, more than other global carriers, as one reader found when he sampled the product between Istanbul and Hong Kong (see our forum).
By comparison with other carriers, Turkish's seats were disposed seven across (2-3-2) and were 19.5 ins wide. Legroom was a generous 46 ins according to seatplans.com.
New planes delivered from Boeing will be configured for business and economy only (Turkish does not offer first class) while existing B777-300ERs will be retrofitted.
But when other carriers around the world are busy adding premium economy cabins in various forms (see Bridging the Gap, April 2013).
Why did Comfort Class fail?
What it shows is that the demand for premium economy varies depending on where in the world you are.
Turkish Airlines draws many of its passengers from neighbouring Middle Eastern and Gulf countries where there is a lack of awareness about what the product stands for.
Look at the major carriers in that part of the world. Not a single one provides passengers with a premium economy cabin – even the world's largest carrier (in terms of flown mileage), Emirates, has so far shunned the concept.
In addition, a 63-seater cabin was probably too large for the potential demand. Maybe Comfort Class would have fared better with fewer seats to sell like the layouts seen at British Airways, Air France, Cathay Pacific and so on.
Lack of consistency is another reason. European passengers understand the concept. But when they travel long-haul with Turkish via Istanbul they wonder why Comfort Class is on one flight but not on another.
But nothing is set in stone in the airline business. If the Gulf carriers eventually go down the premium economy route then Turkish must surely reconsider its decision.
Jun 11, 2013, 4:43 pm
#94
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DTW
Programs: TK E+, WY, Radisson R
Posts: 2,360
Not surprised, although still disappointed. From business perspective, this is the right choice in the near term. I still believe they need a class/cabin between coach and business because there's just too much gap in terms of cost/space/comfort between the 2, especially if they decide to go 10 seats a row in 777. Now it's time to scramble to get to E+ before Comfort is completely gone. Hopefully it will still be around within 6 months.
Jun 12, 2013, 12:25 am
#97
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DTW
Programs: TK E+, WY, Radisson R
Posts: 2,360
They could re-introduce a premium economy class (different name) in the future with fewer seats, from 21 in A330/A340 (2-3-2) to perhaps 32 in 777 (2-4-2), plus down to just 2-3 rows in narrow bodies by blocking middle seats. Some airlines did re-introduce Y+ to reflect the demand (EVA AIR).
I'll probably look into LH's Y+ in the future when I don't have vouchers to upgrade to J and need status miles to maintain E+ across the Atlantic.
FYI, at the moment, the closest product to Comfort Class (price and seat) is Icelandair's Saga Class. I don't really consider this a J product but it's priced at around $2200 JFK-CDG (you can do a stopover in KEF at no charge). Also for a little less, Norwegian has a premium product on 787 with 2-3-2 seating, priced around $1800 restricted fares.
http://www.icelandair.us/information...es/saga-class/
I'll probably look into LH's Y+ in the future when I don't have vouchers to upgrade to J and need status miles to maintain E+ across the Atlantic.
FYI, at the moment, the closest product to Comfort Class (price and seat) is Icelandair's Saga Class. I don't really consider this a J product but it's priced at around $2200 JFK-CDG (you can do a stopover in KEF at no charge). Also for a little less, Norwegian has a premium product on 787 with 2-3-2 seating, priced around $1800 restricted fares.
http://www.icelandair.us/information...es/saga-class/
Last edited by vincewy; Jun 18, 2013 at 11:44 pm
Jun 12, 2013, 1:20 am
#98
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: DSS
Posts: 827
They could re-introduce a premium economy class (different name) in the future with fewer seats, from 21 in A330/A340 (2-3-2) to perhaps 32 in 777 (2-4-2), plus down to just 2-3 rows in narrow bodies by blocking middle seats. Some airlines did re-introduce Y+ to reflect the demand (EVA AIR).
I'll probably look into LH's Y+ in the future when I don't have vouchers to upgrade to J and need status miles to maintain E+ across the Atlantic.
FYI, at the moment, the closest product to Comfort Class (price and seat) is Icelandair's Saga Class. I don't really consider this a J product but it's priced at around $2200 JFK-CDG (you can do a stopover in KEF at no charge)
http://www.icelandair.us/information...es/saga-class/
I'll probably look into LH's Y+ in the future when I don't have vouchers to upgrade to J and need status miles to maintain E+ across the Atlantic.
FYI, at the moment, the closest product to Comfort Class (price and seat) is Icelandair's Saga Class. I don't really consider this a J product but it's priced at around $2200 JFK-CDG (you can do a stopover in KEF at no charge)
http://www.icelandair.us/information...es/saga-class/
When it comes to miles I wouldn't hang my hopes to high. E.g. LH P Fare is not eligible for miles on M&S since 2012.
I think you might earn a max.of 100% at the most for M&S but definitely not 150%.
Jun 12, 2013, 3:00 am
#99
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: BER
Programs: LH FTL
Posts: 278
I don't have high expectations regarding the LH Y+ and doubt that it will come close to TK's CC. I fear it will be rather something like UA or SK Y+ with a few centimetres more legroom and slightly better catering for a significant surcharge.
Jun 12, 2013, 8:58 am
#100
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DTW
Programs: TK E+, WY, Radisson R
Posts: 2,360
Now, if it's more like Icelandair's Y+, no thanks, I'll just fly economy during non-peak periods and have an empty middle seat or even 3 seats for myself.
Last edited by vincewy; Jun 12, 2013 at 12:22 pm
Jun 13, 2013, 3:59 am
#102
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Asheville, NC
Programs: United 1K, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 18
If TK is doing away with CC, why are they still offering it on their JFK-IST run in mid-late Dec 2013. I have tickets for Dec.19-30 in CC . Will we have an option to upgrade to J or just be thrown back to E with no refund?
Jun 13, 2013, 8:05 am
#104
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: DTW
Programs: TK E+, WY, Radisson R
Posts: 2,360
If your fare class is either O or U then you can just change the date for free, I was ready and willing to move to a different date and pay the change fee (since I'm in A fare) but seeing additional flights getting downgauged to A330 I'm holding off until the schedules are more concrete.
As of now all Sunday flights (IST-JFK and vice versa) got downgauged to A330 but I'm expecting more changes coming, a week ago it was only Dec 1st.
You can still book Comfort Class well into spring next year but I won't be booking it until 3-4 months prior, JFK, PEK, and NRT should be the last. GRU is downgauged to A340/A330.
Jun 14, 2013, 1:55 am
#105
Join Date: Jul 2012
Programs: TK E+
Posts: 37
I am checking Expertflyer for some time to get a BC upgrade from CC (i.e. J class availability). On 2 different occasions, 2 different TK call center staff said there was either no availability (where EF showed J2), or 1 availability (where EF showed J4).
Did anyone have a similar experience with the KVS tool?
Did anyone have a similar experience with the KVS tool?