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A thought about illicit use of the trusted traveler programs..

A thought about illicit use of the trusted traveler programs..

Old Jul 3, 2015, 9:16 pm
  #1  
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A thought about illicit use of the trusted traveler programs..

Just a thought.. if someone wanted to be a smuggler (or is a smuggler), but currently has a clean record, they could apply for a trusted traveler program and will likely be accepted, and they could then use those credentials to smuggle stuff at a much lower chance of being caught.

Like if you wanted to bring drugs from mexico into the US, all you have to do is get SENTRI and you're all set.

Seems to me that if you use a trusted traveler program for something illegal you should get hit with a perjury charge or something (eg. making a false statement on a global entry kiosk is considered perjury). Of course, it would only apply to REAL offenses like smuggling drugs or evading duties on 100K of jewelery or something. Getting fined and GE/SENTRI revoked for something stupid like bringing an apple in is punishment enough.
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Old Jul 5, 2015, 8:35 am
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Originally Posted by dasanmarco
Just a thought.. if someone wanted to be a smuggler (or is a smuggler), but currently has a clean record, they could apply for a trusted traveler program and will likely be accepted, and they could then use those credentials to smuggle stuff at a much lower chance of being caught.

Like if you wanted to bring drugs from mexico into the US, all you have to do is get SENTRI and you're all set.

Seems to me that if you use a trusted traveler program for something illegal you should get hit with a perjury charge or something (eg. making a false statement on a global entry kiosk is considered perjury). Of course, it would only apply to REAL offenses like smuggling drugs or evading duties on 100K of jewelery or something. Getting fined and GE/SENTRI revoked for something stupid like bringing an apple in is punishment enough.
Conversely, you could also go to work for the TSA & do all of the same things while in uniform safe in the knowledge that you, & your belongings, will never be searched.

Which, btw, literally thousands of them have done. Many for years.
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Old Jul 5, 2015, 9:19 am
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Originally Posted by txrus
Conversely, you could also go to work for the TSA & do all of the same things while in uniform safe in the knowledge that you, & your belongings, will never be searched.

Which, btw, literally thousands of them have done. Many for years.
This. Or become an airport LEO or baggage handler. Much easier and less risky than running the security lines.
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Old Jul 6, 2015, 11:50 pm
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Originally Posted by dasanmarco
Just a thought.. if someone wanted to be a smuggler (or is a smuggler), but currently has a clean record, they could apply for a trusted traveler program and will likely be accepted, and they could then use those credentials to smuggle stuff at a much lower chance of being caught.
Welcome to FT. I'll go easy since you're new here.

What you are really saying is that a background check, which, by definition looks at what someone has DONE in the PAST (and actually, only what someone has been CAUGHT doing), is useless for guaranteeing what that person might have THOUGHT about doing or what they might do in the FUTURE.

If you've figured that out, you're smarter than anyone at TSA. Congratulations. Not that "smarter than TSA" is much of an achievement.

Nevertheless, TSA (as noted by txrus and BSBD above) gives unlimited trusted access to its own clerks and to airport staff for secure parts of the airport on the basis of a single background check. It's fine to let a TSA clerk rummage through your checked bag or watch your laptop and wallet while you're in the body scanner; they would never steal* because "they've had a background check". Funny, huh?

*Except when they do. Then "the actions of one TSA clerk in no way reflect on the professionalism of the organization as a whole".
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Old Jul 7, 2015, 7:10 am
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That is true, criminals having an inside man in law enforcement is pretty much one of the oldest tricks in the book.

As far as TSA stealing, that mostly happens to checked luggage, as someone stepping out of the body scanner would realize their laptop/wallet just went missing and would complain immediately, and the screening area is loaded with cameras. Hence why you should never put valuables in checked luggage.
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Old Jul 7, 2015, 7:22 am
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Originally Posted by dasanmarco
That is true, criminals having an inside man in law enforcement is pretty much one of the oldest tricks in the book.

As far as TSA stealing, that mostly happens to checked luggage, as someone stepping out of the body scanner would realize their laptop/wallet just went missing and would complain immediately, and the screening area is loaded with cameras. Hence why you should never put valuables in checked luggage.
Far from it-do a little more reading around here & you'll see that. The lesson is to make sure your carryons can't be opened or their contents easily accessed while they are in the tunnel & out of your sight. And never leave anything loose in the bins as I've seen many pax do.

As far as the cameras go, there is a long & well documented history w/those never being pointed in the right direction (or broken or whatever lame excuse the TSA comes up with) to capture the sticky fingered smurf in action which is why so many of them are able to get away with this for so long. One smurf went so far as to have his wife sew hidden pockets in his uniform jacket to put his ill-gotten booty in while he continued working.

The biggest security hole in our current aviation system, in my opinion, is the TSA itself. About the only thing screeners haven't been caught doing, yet, is smuggling explosives onto an airplane.

Seriously.
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Old Jul 7, 2015, 8:19 am
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Originally Posted by RadioGirl

What you are really saying is that a background check, which, by definition looks at what someone has DONE in the PAST (and actually, only what someone has been CAUGHT doing), is useless for guaranteeing what that person might have THOUGHT about doing or what they might do in the FUTURE.
Not really - rather, the point is merely that the background check and past conduct doesn't identify the likelihood of future bad conduct with 100% accuracy. Of course that's true - people using GE still forget and bring bananas back, and may try to do so intentionally. That's just part of the program.

The hook is the penalties are more severe. And I'm not sure that the odds of successfully running a smuggling operation for something valuable are that much better. Say you're bringing drugs - if you're low risk and don't have GE you still could probably get away with it without a search. Of course, assuming the dogs or pigs or whatever sniffs out the drugs don't figure it out, and they're going to alert on the bags whether you're GE or not.

Like many people here I've been through customs many dozen times. I don't recall being searched more than once or twice (including once with GE). Why? Probably because I have nothing suspicious in my background, including suspicious travel patterns (e.g., weekly flights to Colombia), my travels generally haven't been to countries known for smuggling, and perhaps some luck. GE hasn't really changed that - just that I can skip the lines.
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Old Jul 7, 2015, 6:58 pm
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Originally Posted by dasanmarco
That is true, criminals having an inside man in law enforcement is pretty much one of the oldest tricks in the book.

As far as TSA stealing, that mostly happens to checked luggage, as someone stepping out of the body scanner would realize their laptop/wallet just went missing and would complain immediately, and the screening area is loaded with cameras. Hence why you should never put valuables in checked luggage.
I caught a TSA screener reaching into my wifes purse just as it was exiting the x-ray. Suspected target a pouch with jewelery. I called him on it and he then pretended the purse had to go back through x-ray. Complaints lodged and no one at TSA did anything including the FLL FSD, at the time a Mr. Tim Lewis.

Nothing is safe around TSA employees!

Ask me what I think of TSA.
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Old Jul 8, 2015, 1:48 am
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Originally Posted by drewguy
Not really - rather, the point is merely that the background check and past conduct doesn't identify the likelihood of future bad conduct with 100% accuracy.
But if 0.01% of people with a clean record are planning "future bad conduct" (by which I mean terrorism, drug-running, gun-running, not a banana) then the background check can be 99.99% accurate in predicting future conduct while still missing all the actual Bad Guys. It's exactly the 0.01% that the background check misses that we should be worried about.
Originally Posted by drewguy
Of course that's true - people using GE still forget and bring bananas back, and may try to do so intentionally. That's just part of the program.
There's a big difference between "forgot a banana" and "intentionally smuggled bananas". The first is jetlag or ignorance or lack of attention; the second is deliberately breaking a law. Also, I'm guessing that people rarely forget a whole box of fruit or intentionally smuggle a single piece, so the quantity is probably a good test of intent.
Originally Posted by drewguy
The hook is the penalties are more severe.
Only if they find something. And it only really penalizes the forgetful. Do you think the serious agricultural smuggler, or drug mule or gun runner or guy with bomb, thinks "Rats, there goes my GE status!" if they get caught?
Originally Posted by drewguy
And I'm not sure that the odds of successfully running a smuggling operation for something valuable are that much better. Say you're bringing drugs - if you're low risk and don't have GE you still could probably get away with it without a search. Of course, assuming the dogs or pigs or whatever sniffs out the drugs don't figure it out, and they're going to alert on the bags whether you're GE or not.
And here's the key point - if someone without GE can get away with smuggling drugs as easily as someone with GE, then what's the point of GE? If (most) non-GE passengers aren't searched, and if dogs will alert on GE and non-GE alike, then why not treat everyone as GE instead of pretending that those who pay for GE are somehow special?

Similarly for TSA and PreCheck. If the security screening that PreCheck passengers receive - including the random element of occasional deeper scrutiny - is sufficient for those who have passed a background check but may be planning something nefarious in the future, or for those who are randomly sent to the PreCheck line, why not make that the standard screening for everyone?
Originally Posted by drewguy
Like many people here I've been through customs many dozen times. I don't recall being searched more than once or twice (including once with GE). Why? Probably because I have nothing suspicious in my background, including suspicious travel patterns (e.g., weekly flights to Colombia), my travels generally haven't been to countries known for smuggling, and perhaps some luck. GE hasn't really changed that - just that I can skip the lines.
I think you're making my point for me. You were searched once with GE and (perhaps) once - or (perhaps) never - before you had GE. GE does not exempt anyone from random searches, nor, it appears, does lack of GE guarantee more frequent searches, all else being equal. CBP can (and I'll bet they do) still decide to place a higher scrutiny on someone with "suspicious travel patterns" whether they have GE or not.

Out of well over 100 passes through customs/immigration in countries around the world, I've only been searched once (and that was just my luggage). I was entering the USA on a US passport and the CBP guy took personal offence to the fact that I had chosen to live in Another Country Which Is Not America. I'm reasonably confident that Patriotic CBP Guy would send my luggage for the full treatment even if I had GE.

So, if every passenger knew they had a random chance of being searched, what is the benefit of GE (to the passenger)? What is the additional risk (to the country) of treating everyone the same?
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Old Jul 8, 2015, 6:49 am
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Maybe in the future TSA can develop a PreCrime Investigation Unit. Similar to what was portrayed in Minority Report.

"Thought crimes".
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Old Jul 8, 2015, 7:32 am
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Originally Posted by DaveBlaine
Maybe in the future TSA can develop a PreCrime Investigation Unit. Similar to what was portrayed in Minority Report.

"Thought crimes".
Not to worry - the are working on it!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/check...n-airport.html
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Old Jul 8, 2015, 7:45 am
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Originally Posted by petaluma1
Not to worry - the are working on it!

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/check...n-airport.html
That's a start, but let me know when the Precogs show up.
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Old Jul 8, 2015, 11:56 pm
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Originally Posted by DaveBlaine
That's a start, but let me know when the Precogs show up.
At TSA they're "Noncogs." Close enough.
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Old Jul 9, 2015, 12:16 am
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The idea of TSA/DHS doing this gives me the same reaction as the "sick sticks" used in that movie.

Originally Posted by DaveBlaine
That's a start, but let me know when the Precogs show up.
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