FlyingUnderTheRadar

I am just shaking my heads at all the people that are happy with this change. People who are happy to pay to have the security screening that everyone once had and should continue to have. TSA has become a monstrosity and forcing one to pay for respectful screening is disrespectful.

petaluma1

^^

ThreeJulietTango

^ Clueless people in the Pre✓ lane annoys both the TSA officers and the frequent fliers to no end. This is a welcome and long-overdue change.

BigOrangeTerp

Imagine the poor politician who says he wants to reform the TSA to make the Precheck security the standard rather than the exception. His next opponent will accuse him of wanting to make America unsafe, all while getting an all-expenses paid vacation from the makers of Rapiscan machines

ScottC

Respectful screening happens in every lane. The PreCheck lane provides a level of security in line with the type of passenger passing through; those who have gone through a background check, and deemed to be low risk.

Letting random people into that lane because they are old, or look nice defeats the entire purpose of the lane, and I'm happy it is ending.

The PreCheck lane also has different rules, and people using that lane who don't know those rules slow things down for everyone. The cost to get PreCheck or GE is low, and covers the cost of the enrollment staff, card production (when doing GE) and government costs of doing your background check. I for one am happy the government charges a little bit for it, because it ensures the product is paid for without too much of my tax money being spent on it.

This isn't about paying for a respectful screening, it is about allowing the government to determine your trusted traveler status, and providing an expedited screening process.

FlyingUnderTheRadar

Glad you enjoyed drinking the kool-aid. I personally do not find having my junk giggled by someone wearing gloves as being all that respectful. Rather degrading actually.

Think real hard about the security process - do you really think all of those measures are making flying any safer?

Adam Smith

Of course not. The vast majority of it is security theatre that has no impact on safety of flying. Take just one example, the knife I get to eat my dinner in business class is far more dangerous a weapon than the little 1" penknife I have on my keychain, but watch how fast they'll confisctate that if I ever leave it at home.

But I don't think that was ScottC's point. The screeners can be respectful despite the fact that they're often enforcing ridiculous policies.

Obviously it would be better if more sensible screening measures were implemented across the board, but for the time being, I'll be happy that they're making changes to make sure that those of us who've gone to the trouble of gaining eligibility for PreCheck can consistently enjoy the benefits.

mikeef

Nothing that these security measures do makes us any safer, including pre-check. It exists solely to pacify travelers. Pre-check should be the standard.

Mike

chollie

(bolding mine)

TSA has determined that individuals over 75 are low-risk - that is the government determining trusted traveler status.

Even if someone over 75 is required to pay for Pre, that individual isn't going to move any more quickly or efficiently because s/he has Pre.

I'm also not sure what you mean about the practice 'ending'. IIRC, allowing over-75's and under-12's to keep light outer wear and shoes on was in place before Pre. It has nothing to do with Pre or 'managed inclusion'. Note: ending 'free Pre' based on FF status is not necessarily the same thing as ending 'managed inclusion'.

The delays I have seen in Pre lines are primarily the fault of TSA's own inconsistency and lazy TSOs. The Pre experience is not consistent from airport to airport - or even from checkpoint to checkpoint. I have reverted to my old practice of removing my shoes, outerwear (even an open button-down shirt) and watch before the TDC because of these inconsistencies. I seem to be in the minority: most approach the Pre lane expecting/hoping for the 'full' Pre experience, only to be slowed down by TSOs randomly dictating shoes or outerwear off or requiring an NoS scan (or, in my case, a full body grope) because of a real or 'random' WMD alarm.

I move slowly - not because of age. Prior to Pre, I removed everything before the TDC to speed things up for others. I have held up a Pre line when the belt monitor forced me to put my shoes back on - and I have seen it done to other pax as well at the same checkpoint.

ScottC

That is a discussion for an entirely different thread.

chrisremo

There is a worthwhile discussion to have about transitioning the ENTIRE TSA screening process to be one similar to that of Pre-Check (in other words, one similar to pre-9/11 practices). I would be in favor of that. But if you're going to have a separate line that is specifically set aside for pre-cleared passengers who have been background checked, it kind of defeats the purpose to just let other passengers into it randomly. The absurdity of the entire system as a whole is probably not the purview of this thread.

chollie

I see nothing in the recent announcement that applies to 'managed inclusion'. Many of those folks are infrequent or first-time flyers, hence the pax being unprepared. Short of an outright ban on managed inclusion, it's still an FSD/checkpoint decision. It was supposed to be based on a case-by-case analysis - dog sniffers, swabs, 'chats', physical profiling - but as many of us have witnessed, entire lines are shifted without any of this.

The threatened tightening of rules looks like it will apply to FFers who now get Pre based on airline status. As a group, they may be more likely to know what to expect and prepare. That's a change that can be controlled by TSA HQ.

N1120A

That is complete and utter falsity. Even in Pre-Check, respectful screening doesn't always happen.

Very true. Pre-Check should be the standard and an even more simplified process should be the Pre-Check standard, like with a lifting of liquids restrictions and no "random" referral to NOS/Pat Down.

Not according to you, apparently.

Managed inclusion is supposed to be going down as well.

Carl Johnson

If the Übermenschen lanes were filled to capacity, they would make everybody safer, because people get through them faster. The TSA is not actually going to cut back on managed inclusion, because the occasional passenger is not going to go through the expense and aggravation of providing the information and showing up for the interview. I'm disappointed that there are so many passengers who think they should have access to a vast overallocation of government resources, but the Untermenschen are going to continue to "clog" the lanes just like always.

But like I was saying, the Übermenschen lanes do help reduce the only threat that exists - the threat that a couple people will roll up with AKs and spray the line. By providing a faster experience less subject to the slovenly incompetence of the clerks in the typical lane, passengers will disperse through the terminal faster.

Carl Johnson

I think you fly out of a bad airport. I have had nothing but good experiences at the Übermenschen lane (JFK and SEA, and BDL one time). Now, I will tell you that the instant I moved out of there (Terminal 1 JFK) I encountered the buzz-saw of incompetence I experienced before they put the Übermenschen lanes in there. I didn't give the idiot document checker at T1 my passport - kept asking her why, she kept repeating she needed my passport, finally called a supervisor (who called somebody on the radio for some reason, and then looked over my driving license and BP, scribbled, and handed the stuff back to me).