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Global Entry - Dual Citizenship

Global Entry - Dual Citizenship

Old Feb 27, 2015, 12:42 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by TWA884
It has to be a willful misrepresentation or concealment of a material fact that affects one's eligibility to become a citizen.

Here is the relevant section of the Department of Homeland Security Policy Manual:
Yes, but what is willful misrepresentation/concealment of a requested material fact isn't necessarily judged as being the same for everyone by everyone -- it varies based on the eyes of the beholders. It has been used as leverage to make targets into "informants"/"assets"/"entrapment bait" or to get targets to plead guilty (rather than fight it out in court all the way to a jury verdict) in an effort to try to protect their (i.e., the target's) loved ones from the government-threatened removal over alleged willful misrepresentation or concealment of material facts on their loved one's/ones' immigration and naturalization documents.

Governments are no saints, and sometimes that kind of anti-saint-like extreme extrajudicial pressure alienates people enough to set them on a course to become a monster of sorts.
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Old Feb 27, 2015, 2:02 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
...Governments are no saints, and sometimes that kind of anti-saint-like extreme extrajudicial pressure alienates people enough to set them on a course to become a monster of sorts.
You really sure you really wanna' "go 'there'" in this thread/forum?
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Old Feb 27, 2015, 2:41 pm
  #63  
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Yes, but what is willful misrepresentation/concealment of a requested material fact isn't necessarily judged as being the same for everyone by everyone -- it varies based on the eyes of the beholders.
The Supreme Court of the United States set forth a clear test of what constitutes willful and false misrepresentation or concealment.
Before the court was the specific issue of whether certain misrepresentations or concealments made by Kungys in connection with his naturalization proceeding were material within the meaning of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. Specifically, whether false statements with concerning date and place of birth, wartime occupations, and wartime residence were material within the meaning of the statute.

The court held that the test of whether concealments or misrepresentations were material is whether they had a natural tendency to influence the decisions of the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

The court then determined that the misrepresentation of the date and place of his birth in the naturalization petition was not material, since those facts by themselves were not relevant to the petitioner's qualifications for citizenship.

The case was then remanded to determine whether the other misrepresentations constituted "false testimony for the purpose of obtaining" immigration or naturalization benefits.

If you can cite a United States Supreme Court case defining material misrepresentations or concealments differently for the purpose of revoking one's citizenship, I'll be more than happy to read it.
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Old Feb 27, 2015, 3:27 pm
  #64  
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Originally Posted by TWA884
The Supreme Court of the United States set forth a clear test of what constitutes willful and false misrepresentation or concealment.
Before the court was the specific issue of whether certain misrepresentations or concealments made by Kungys in connection with his naturalization proceeding were material within the meaning of the Immigration and Nationality Act of 1952. Specifically, whether false statements with concerning date and place of birth, wartime occupations, and wartime residence were material within the meaning of the statute.

The court held that the test of whether concealments or misrepresentations were material is whether they had a natural tendency to influence the decisions of the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

The court then determined that the misrepresentation of the date and place of his birth in the naturalization petition was not material, since those facts by themselves were not relevant to the petitioner's qualifications for citizenship.

The case was then remanded to determine whether the other misrepresentations constituted "false testimony for the purpose of obtaining" immigration or naturalization benefits.

If you can cite a United States Supreme Court case defining material misrepresentations or concealments differently for the purpose of revoking one's citizenship, I'll be more than happy to read it.
Of course, and just because it may work out or not work out in the Courts, doesn't mean the Executive Branch won't attempt things that may or may not work out in court. Look at the DOJ's mishandling of people that are actually US dual-citizens (or perhaps just US citizens) but were not recognized as US citizens by the US due to DOJ's misunderstanding or whatever about what legitimated means in the context of non-US-born children with some US derivative citizenship. Reference to the matter of O.S. CROSS this month.

Seeking or maintaining dual/multiple citizenships has its utility; but it also may have its complications -- good or bad -- depending on the circumstances applicable to some US dual-citizens applying for GE or who are members of GE. The applicant's information provided, or not provided, and the use of that information or omission, could have unexpected consequence for some claimed dual-citizens, be they US dual-citizens or other dual-citizens applying for GE or seeking to maintain GE status. Governments aren't saints, so some dual-citizens may want to make sure, proverbially-speaking, to cross each and every "t" and dot each and every "i" in the way that best makes sense for the individual and do so by getting their own appropriate legal counsel on these matters -- not that all such lawyers are going to necessarily be informed (or care) about each and every administrative, judicial or extrajudicial possibility that may hit dual-citizens.
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Old Feb 27, 2015, 3:37 pm
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Reference to the matter of O.S. CROSS this month.
I have no ideal what you are referring to. My Google search produced no relevant results.

Until you direct me to court opinions or DOJ or DHS guidelines or policies that are contrary to what I have stated above, I stand by what I have written on the subject.
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Old Feb 27, 2015, 3:38 pm
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Originally Posted by TWA884
I have no ideal what you are referring to. My Google search produced no relevant results.

Until you direct me to court opinions or DOJ or DHS guidelines or policies that are contrary to what I have stated above, I stand by what I have written on the subject.
http://www.justice.gov/eoir/vll/intdec/vol26/3826.pdf

I stand by what you have written on the subject too, just as I stand by what I have written on the subject.
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Old Feb 27, 2015, 3:41 pm
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Totally different issue than the revocation of the citizenship of a naturalized citizen.
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Old Feb 27, 2015, 4:06 pm
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Originally Posted by TWA884
Totally different issue than the revocation of the citizenship of a naturalized citizen.
The point being that the Executive Branch can mess up or mess over dual-citizens, as indicated in the matter of Cross which I referenced above.

Originally Posted by GUWonder
Of course, and just because it may work out or not work out in the Courts, doesn't mean the Executive Branch won't attempt things that may or may not work out in court. Look at the DOJ's mishandling of people that are actually US dual-citizens (or perhaps just US citizens) but were not recognized as US citizens by the US due to DOJ's misunderstanding or whatever about what legitimated means in the context of non-US-born children with some US derivative citizenship. Reference to the matter of O.S. CROSS this month.

Seeking or maintaining dual/multiple citizenships has its utility; but it also may have its complications -- good or bad -- depending on the circumstances applicable to some US dual-citizens applying for GE or who are members of GE. The applicant's information provided, or not provided, and the use of that information or omission, could have unexpected consequence for some claimed dual-citizens, be they US dual-citizens or other dual-citizens applying for GE or seeking to maintain GE status. Governments aren't saints, so some dual-citizens may want to make sure, proverbially-speaking, to cross each and every "t" and dot each and every "i" in the way that best makes sense for the individual and do so by getting their own appropriate legal counsel on these matters -- not that all such lawyers are going to necessarily be informed (or care) about each and every administrative, judicial or extrajudicial possibility that may hit dual-citizens.
Lots of US dual-citizens have GE status, and it's most frequently neither a show-stopper nor a problem and it should be disclosed -- but not every GE applicant/member with dual-citizenship is in the same boat, even amongst those who disclose all the relevant citizenships.

Last edited by GUWonder; Feb 27, 2015 at 4:19 pm
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Old Mar 2, 2015, 4:41 pm
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Originally Posted by bocastephen
I will - as this defies what we were warned about during the naturalization process. I don't have any new citizenships to add to my collection anytime soon, but knowing I can without losing my US citizenship is useful information.
I am shocked -- shocked -- that the US government misrepresented the law to you. You should sue!


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Old Mar 19, 2015, 3:41 pm
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It looks like the process is different depending on which officer you deal with at the GE center.

I recently became naturalized and changed my Green Card info to US passport. The officer asked about dual citizenship since my German passport was listed, which I truthfully answered that I have kept my German citizenship.

He raised his eyebrows and told me (not very friendly) that I renounced my German citizenship when I became naturalized. So he deleted my German passport details and now there are only the US details in the GOES system. I didn't argue the issue as it seems irrelevant - I will never enter the country with the German passport in hand anyway.

If any immigration officer asks about it, I can tell him my friendly encounter.
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Old Apr 9, 2015, 7:30 pm
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In my case it took a few months because I live in a location that does not do interviews, and I had to coordinate business trips and layovers to finally end up in DFW at the same time as an interview opening. Before that, the approval process too several weeks...3 or so.
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Old Apr 13, 2015, 5:12 am
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Originally Posted by DerSchnelleFlieger
It looks like the process is different depending on which officer you deal with at the GE center.

I recently became naturalized and changed my Green Card info to US passport. The officer asked about dual citizenship since my German passport was listed, which I truthfully answered that I have kept my German citizenship.

He raised his eyebrows and told me (not very friendly) that I renounced my German citizenship when I became naturalized. So he deleted my German passport details and now there are only the US details in the GOES system. I didn't argue the issue as it seems irrelevant - I will never enter the country with the German passport in hand anyway.

If any immigration officer asks about it, I can tell him my friendly encounter.
I would not be surprised if a CBP employee doing these interviews would mistakenly assume that Germany currently prohibits all its citizens from holding dual-citizenship.

CBP hires a lot of former US military personnel. And plenty of US citizens with a history of being stationed in Germany for the US military under SOFA (or of being affiliated with and talking about this with those who have been there under SOFA) have been under the impression that Germany requires German citizens to surrender German citizenship if naturalizing in another country, specifically if naturalizing to become a US citizen.

But all that said, look at the current naturalization oath:

http://www.uscis.gov/us-citizenship/...states-america

While there are certain allowances for waivers or modifications in the oath, there is no such thing allowed when it comes to renunciation of foreign allegiance for those required to take the oath to become naturalized.

Whether or not the foreign state acknowledges such naturalization as an act of renunciation, well that may vary. Some countries that used to prohibit dual-citizenship but now allow for dual-citizenship have allowances for their former citizens who naturalized abroad to rather easily re-attain their former citizenship. Talk about a roundabout way to deal with such naturalization oaths.

Last edited by GUWonder; Apr 13, 2015 at 5:23 am
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Old Jul 24, 2015, 8:04 pm
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Originally Posted by William S
Dual citizenship is allowed by US law, but US citizens and nationals must always enter/exit the United States on their US passport (well no exit controls in the USA so it is defacto just enter).
Dual citizenship is NOT recognized nor allowed under US law.

In fact, when aliens naturalize here, they are required to renounce their former nationality.

Also, when Americans naturalize abroad, they lose their US citizenship.

Unless something has recently changed?
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Old Jul 24, 2015, 8:17 pm
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Originally Posted by UNGGOY
Also, when Americans naturalize abroad, they lose their US citizenship.
That's is incorrect.

In 1967 the Supreme Court held, in the case of Afroyim v. Rusk, that Congress has no power under the Constitution to divest a person of his United States citizenship absent a voluntary renunciation.
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Old Jul 24, 2015, 8:19 pm
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Originally Posted by UNGGOY
Dual citizenship is NOT recognized nor allowed under US law.

In fact, when aliens naturalize here, they are required to renounce their former nationality.

Also, when Americans naturalize abroad, they lose their US citizenship.

Unless something has recently changed?
This is completely incorrect. When a resident naturalizes in the US, they renounce allegiance to other countries, but this is not renouncing citizenship...totally different concepts. The US absolutely DOES recognize dual citizenship provided the other country does as well. There are thousands if not tens of thousands of dual citizens here including myself, and many of us carry two passports.

The only way to lose US citizenship if you're American born is to formally renounce it. The only way to lose US citizenship if you're foreign born (naturalized) is to be found to have lied on your naturalization application, or failing that, formally renounce it.
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