drzoidberg

Nice TR! Am I missing something? CX F served Balik salmon but no caviar? This seems like a more ideal combination.

Annalisa12

Loved your report. The Cathay Pacific Business class lounge at Vancouver looks pretty boring.

ordogg

Another oddity worth mentioning to report about our stay involved the restaurant immediately across the street from the Westin Hotel: The Osteria Laguna. The restaurant was Zagat and Michelin guide rated. It offered great food and nice Italian wine list. During our dinner, my wife paid. When she was in the washroom after the meal, the waiter came back to ask if everything was okay with the meal? I said yes – to which he told me that the minimum tip was 15%. I told him that my wife paid which led to a mini stand off as I didn’t have any cash on me smaller than a $20 USD bill. Apparently he was not satisfied with the $15 tip ($135 Check). Not knowing how to answer this, I told him that we’d leave some money on the table afterwards – but after I thought about it it was a pretty strange experience – or at least the first time it’s ever happened to me that the waiter has challenged me / us on the size of the tip. Looking at Trip Advisor after the fact, it appears this happens on a regular basis (other reports reflect the same thing). I wasn’t to impressed by it at the time. It was a sure method of making sure your guests don’t return. Either way, the abruptness of the incident was an interesting welcome to New York.

My only guess is that a lot of foreigners aren't used to the tipping customs in America. Generally, before I visit another country, I research the local tipping customs. My rule of thumb is 15% on pre-tax total for standard service and more (usually around 20%) for great service. I won't hesitate to tip below 15% for bad service.

Did you have bad service which warranted the less than 15% tip or were you unaware of American tipping customs?

Annalisa12

I love first class travel but I am just not a fancy eater. I don't like the options available 'up front'. Your trip report reminded me I have to book the cook for my next First trip so I can get something simple. I'm not a drinker either, but I'll have a Krug too just to say I've had one!

roastpuff

This is only on the YVR-JFK route - no caviar as it is a semi-longhaul service.

scottsam66

Great report, and I get "for principle" , but the 5 dollar off car service and leaving a poor tip is odd behavior IMHO. I served in my younger days (college) and can completely understand the server's reaction. in US 15% is borderline low. Servers make $2.12 per hour plus tips. You didn't say service was bad IIRC either.

CMK10

Very much enjoying this report so far and looking forward to the rest of the NY pictures.

I flew CX F JFK-YVR a couple years ago so it was nice to relive the experience with you. It looks like dessert has been "enhanced" though. When I flew it, there was a slice of cake instead of a small carton of ice cream.

DanielW

Great TR, worldtraveller73.

Ahh, the convoluted & ambiguous 'service fee' culture of the US!

If there is a minimum tipping rate, they should add it automatically to your bill. Not send the server over to intimidate and shake you down afterwards if you are not up to speed on the dark arts of tipping in the US.

DanielW

That's the federal minimum. Its $5 in New York.

offerendum

Still not much. Of course you must inform yourself before a trip and it was the first think I learned before eating in the US. Tip isn`t an ad on like in other countries, it`s a charge

Kagehitokiri

great report!

same category >
sheraton tribeca (369 rooms)
four points chelsea (158 rooms)
four points soho (150 rooms)

JMNMEL

I'm travelling to NY in January - what would your first choice have been?

hairpeace

worldtraveller73

Thank you tng11.

For the most part, CX rolled out the royal treatment for the CX F passengers on this route. The only complaint is that the experience is rather short. It's sort of like having a 20 minute full body massage. Once you've just gotten into it, the flight is over and you have to book another segment to get back into relaxation mode.

Hi ordogg, scottsam66, DanielW and offerendum,

Obviously some valid and legitimate points raised here, on both sides of the equation.

Regarding Dial 7: We were encouraged to book with them thanks to a discount voucher. Unfortunately, the experience wasn't pleasant. The car was old, the driver got lost (despite a GPS) and what we booked wasn't honoured at the quoted rate. Call me old school, but my opinion are that tips are earned. When your driver is refusing to acknowledge what you booked, when you have to call the Dial 7 dispatcher to get your original reservation honoured, then have to re-challenge the driver AFTER that call had occurred did not make for an experience that would want me to re-book with them again, nor recommend their services. In this case, I particularly don't think that a tip is warranted since nothing worked out. I'd go so far to suggest that his previous fares were likely accustomed just to forget about the $5 and pay the higher rate. I think that makes the situation worse for others down the road by promoting dishonest trading. It's also not taking care of your customers very well either.

Regarding Osteria Laguna: Our dinner service was late - a 10:30 PM seating on a Saturday night. The restaurant was mostly quiet. The food and service were average, the food had obviously been sitting on the counter for a while prior to it being brought out. I'd use the term for this meal over all as "forgettable". I can't speak for MrsWT73 and how she decided to calculate the tip amount. I personally know that we don't normally tip on tax in Vancouver - and I believe tax is about 5% in New York State. This turns out to a 12% tip in the end.

There are strong opinions on this on both sides of the circumstance. I can appreciate that tips are required to recognize good service. We always leave a tip for housekeeping when we stay at hotels. I can say that we are regular visitors to the United states and frequent travellers. MrsWT73 clocked in 106,000 tail in seat miles last year, and I've been fortunate enough to surpass 55 worldwide countries visited. Armed with a Lonely Planet guidebook to most of the places we visit, I can say that the New York guide doesn't suggest or emphasize that tips should be any higher in New York than anywhere else in the USA. We've come to accept this as 15-25% as standard. I don't believe that travellers, especially those on this forum that put miles on like crazy, have to know the intricacies of the compensation market for service workers in NYC. Although if what DanielW says is true, the wage amount is shockingly low.

What I do find interesting is the attitude amongst several (not all) of service workers, predominantly in the USA, that expect tips for very average service. This experience indeed was an unusual experience in that in thirty years of dining out and all the miles around the world, that it's the first time that I've been "confronted" on the matter. It is also unusual as once you leave the USA, you realize that most of the other places in the world, don't have the same expectations. Australia - not a tipping culture. France - usually included in the bill or not at all. SE Asia - appreciated in small amounts but not the norm every time you turn around. Africa - they'll take what they can get out of you but if you say "no", it's not expected as a matter of course. Do those experiences jade you? Sure they do. In this case, based on the overall experience at the restaurant, and the pretty average food, a decision was made not to leave a greater amount, nor a greater amount after we've been challenged. Maybe that makes us bad people, but it wasn't a place I'd recommend my friends to dine at.

Thanks Annalisa12. MrsWT73 is also not a fancy eater. She enjoyed the western pasta option on the flight out, and found the food quite fresh. She also enjoyed selecting a la carte from the menu, and the freedom of not being tied to the full 4 course menu.

Thank you roastpuff. I believe the Cathay YVR-JFK-YVR route is the only long haul route without the caviar (unless it's been enhanced off the other route with the menu re-organization).

Thanks CMK10. If I recall correctly, there was also a cake offering. I did fancy the lighter Haagen Daz ice cream after all that food and the late hour. It was about 1:30 AM Pacific Standard Time prior to finishing up.

Thank you Kagehitokiri and JMNMEL,

I think if we were to stay next time on SPG reward points, at this category level, we would aim for the Four Points Chelsea or the Sheraton Tribeca (for the neighborhood).

If on a paid stay, cost no object, and staying with SPG, we'd probably aim for the W Union Square or the Chatwal. These both seem to be in much nicer neighbourhoods than the Plain Jane, closed after dark, Westin Grand Central.

As forty something travellers, the Westin Grand Central neighbourhood was pretty average and a bit of a no man's land after regular business hours. Perhaps we were looking for a little more charm - something we didn't find in Mid Town East.

Hairpiece - what I meant to say here was that the contents for both the men and women amenity kits were exactly the same, despite being packaged in different packages. Ermenegildo Zegna case for men, Trussardi for the women, contents of each identical.

worldtraveller73

New York
Memorial Day Weekend, 2014

We had a great 6 days in New York. As we all do, we often get the opportunity to talk about the United States amongst travelers around the world. This is an especially interesting topic for me, being Canadian.

Throughout my world travels, I’ve always encouraged those that I have happened to meet that want to visit the US to visit two cities – New York and San Francisco. These two locations in the US are the greatest across the continent. Sure the drive to Key West from Florida is interesting, sure Telluride, Colorado remains my favorite ski area in the USA, and sure it’s tough to beat the beauty of Jenny Lake in Grand Teton National Park, Wyoming. Despite this, there is something about New York and San Francisco. My opinions after this visit haven’t changed. New York is still one of the greatest cities in the world.

























New since my last visit is the terrific Highline in the Chelsea neighborhood. Starting in the Meat Packing District, the Highline are old railway tracks converted into green space. They even have their own wine bars and chair loungers. It’s a great place to get away for a short walk.