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Passport Heads Up - Don't Get Too Close To Expiration Date

Passport Heads Up - Don't Get Too Close To Expiration Date

Old Feb 3, 2008, 2:38 pm
  #31  
 
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Why the rule anyway?

Originally Posted by CurlyKrakow
For domestic travel in the US, I think acceptability of expired ID's should be more flexible ...

But for international travel, I think that there are plenty of good reasons that passports should expire. As someone familiar with consular work, the potential for passport/visa fraud -- already a booming business the world over -- would increase even more significantly if valid PPTs never expired. The second-hand market in stolen or exploited PPTs, especially with previously issued visas, would be extremely lucrative. 10 year validity (at least for US passports) seems like a pretty workable compromise between valid security issues and potential renewal hassle for any individual traveler.


...
OK, let's accept that PPT expirations is a good idea. Maybe the holder died in the interim. Maybe the holder is not a citizen of that country any more. Maybe it will make things harder for fraudsters and terrorists since they will only be able to use them during the first 9.5 years of their validity.

And, perhaps it is reasonable that a country forbids entry with an expired passport. Maybe you are not who you were any more.

Now, can anyone explain why a passport that is valid at the time of travel suddenly makes one unwelcome in a country once the expiration date has passed? Since this seems to be a near-universal practice there must be a very good reason for this policy. What is it?

Perhaps they fear you won't be able to leave, i.e., being barred from every other country? But, it seems your home country is likely to let you back in. And, if one has a return ticket (often another policy item) where will they go wrong?

This must be simple but I seem to be missing something.
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Old Feb 3, 2008, 2:48 pm
  #32  
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Originally Posted by RickR
Perhaps they fear you won't be able to leave, i.e., being barred from every other country? But, it seems your home country is likely to let you back in.
That's the reason behind at least some of these policies.

There are a number of countries that agree to extend the validity of the passports for six months beyond expiration for the purposes of readmission. These are members of the so-called 'six-month club'. http://foia.state.gov/masterdocs/09fam/0941104X1.pdf

The US, for example, will admit otherwise admissible nationals of six-month club countries for a stay up until the expiration of their passport. Otherwise, they will not admit nationals within six months of the passport expiration.

Some info:
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/87474.pdf
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Old Feb 4, 2008, 8:25 pm
  #33  
 
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This is why it's important to always check entry requirements for the country where you are traveling. Some countries require passport expiration limits, while some even demand that you have so many blank pages in your passport. I've even seen reference to countries not providing visas to anyone who has a certain country's endorsement in their passport (including an entry or exit endorsement).
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Old Mar 12, 2008, 9:24 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by T/BE20/G
I accompanied a friend of mine who did this in September - he had fallen below the required validity for our late September trip to Oktoberfest and Prague. You can make an appointment at any of the passport agency offices by calling 877-487-2778. We made the appointment only 2 days before, though you can even make it same day if there's availability. They do ask for evidence of travel in the next 2 weeks, then we just dropped off the completed application and came back in about 3 hours to pick up the new passport... simple as could be! I don't know why anybody who has convenient access to a passport office would renew by mail - the expedite fee is the same as in person, but in person you have the security of having the passport back right away - no waiting for days.

The offices are available in the following cities:
Boston
Chicago
Aurora, CO
Norwalk, CT
Honolulu
Houston
LA
Miami
New Orleans
New York
Philadelphia
San Francisco
Seattle
DC

You really have a lot of choices!

travel.state.gov
You left out Denver! I got mine done four weeks ahead of my scheduled travel because I had trips to China and Vietnam, which both require visas. Called on Monday (Labor Day!) on the automated line. Showed up Tuesday at 12:30 and picked up my passport the following morning at 09:30. Could have had it the same day, but no need as I was still waiting for the China invitation letter to include with my visa applications. Expedite fee was $60 all in.

Forgot to mention, when the agent saw my passport he asked how many pages I wanted (the old one had six sets of extra pages in it). Told him as many as he could fit and he made sure there were four sets in it to begin with. Probably won't need additional pages for at least 3-5 years depending on the continued extent of my Asia travel.
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Old Mar 12, 2008, 11:33 pm
  #35  
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This thread really has little to do with Delta Air Lines and the SkyMiles frequent flier program.

More importantly, this thread contains information that should be shared with other FlyerTalk members and not solely Delta forum FlyerTalk members, which is why the new home of this thread is now the TravelBuzz! forum.

Thank you.

Regards,

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Co-Moderator, Delta forum
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 3:40 am
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by Boston_Bulldog
That's one of the reason(s) WHY we have U.S. embassies and U.S. consulates abroad ...
In fact, thats not actually true. Ive been told at more than one embassy that they "are not here to help Americans traveling abroad, we are here to look out for American interests in the country of whatever"

Its been my exp. that the Canadian embassy is more likely help to Americans traveling overseas than the US Embassy. Although I doubt there is much they can do for an expired US passport. My advice would be:

1. Get it in order before you leave beyond even a slightest doubt.
2. Take a photcopy of at least the first 2 pgs. and store it in a different place than wherever you keep your ppt.

Happy Trails.
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 4:12 am
  #37  
 
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And note that some countries are flexible on their requirements. A colleague and I were traveling to Singapore last year, and when we got to JFK to check in, the UA agent said that she wouldn't be able to enter Singapore because her passport expired in less than 6 months. We boarded our JFK-SFO flight not knowing if she would be able to board the SFO-SIN flight. Upon arrival at SFO, a very helpful agent in the SQ lounge called the Singaporean consulate and was told that my colleague could enter for 2 reasons, 1. (the official reason) my colleague had proof of forward travel from Singapore only 3 days after arrival, and 2. (unofficial) that this rule is used primarily to prevent vagrants from entering Singapore and not leaving.

Upon arrival in Singapore, my colleague's passport was scanned, stamped and she was allowed in with not a single mention of the expiration date being less than 6 months away (and we didn't mention it either ).

I didn't care which of the reasons was behind her being permitted into and out of Singapore, I just cared that the process was smooth!
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 6:11 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by RobertS975
The whole passport thing is a bit of beaurocracy at its finest. I mean one can cross borders by land all over Europe without so much as anyone even stopping you.

And what is so magical about an expired passport? It just means you didn't pay your $$$ to your government. Do you suddenly cease to exist if your passport is expired?

And visas are another way of extracting $$$ from the traveler.
I know of at least three major world players that will refuse their own citizens if they do not have a valid passport.

Originally Posted by avflyer
Just yesterday, I ran into a colleague flying on another airline BOS-AMS and her expiration date is the same as mine. She was not denied boarding so this is obviously only enforced if they bother looking at the local rules during checkin (which the DL agent did do). She agent did point out that not only might the airline get fined (heavily) if authorities in AMS catch this, but that at DL now, the attending agent will be singled out for the infraction so you can't really blame them for looking.
From what I understand, Delta has a kind of cool check in system behind the counter that prompts them for required documents and they have to enter the information as they go along in order to prevent getting fined.
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 9:17 am
  #39  
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Originally Posted by HangingOver
In fact, thats not actually true. Ive been told at more than one embassy that they "are not here to help Americans traveling abroad, we are here to look out for American interests in the country of whatever"
Yes, looking out for American interests is the goal of the State department.
Yes, some foreign service officers have no interest in consular services, though almost all are forced to spend time doing so at the beginning of their career.
However, services for US citizens are absolutely a part of the mission of the State department. See Strategic Goal 7:
http://www.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/doss...html/82957.htm
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Old Mar 14, 2008, 1:57 pm
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The fact is that US citizens can enter the US with an expired passport. We live overseas and my wife was to start a sabbatical at a US university at the end of September. On Labor Day she realized that her US passport had expired and went running the next day to the local US Consulate for a renewal. Her travel plans did not qualify for an emergency passport and she was told that all passports are prepared only in the States so that it would take at least a month to get a new passport (no expedited passport from overseas). To make a long story short, all the explaining and cajoling did no good, but when she started to cry (loudly) in the waiting area, the consul told her that, as as a US citizen, she only had to prove her citizenship to enter the US and an expired passport is proof of citizenship. She asked if LY was aware of this and would they let her board, so he copied the relavant pages for her to show them. She had to tell this story to every supervisor along the way, including passport control at JFK, but she was allowed in. A month later her new passport caught up with her.
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Old Mar 15, 2008, 1:41 am
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Originally Posted by soitgoes
Yes, looking out for American interests is the goal of the State department.
Yes, some foreign service officers have no interest in consular services, though almost all are forced to spend time doing so at the beginning of their career.
However, services for US citizens are absolutely a part of the mission of the State department. See Strategic Goal 7:
http://www.state.gov/s/d/rm/rls/doss...html/82957.htm
It very well be mandated that way, and I found your link very interesting. As with most branches of govt. however --- what they are supposed to do, what they feel they should do and what they actually do ---- are all completely different concepts.

It has been made clear to me (and I may be the only one) that embassy personel (and they may not all feel this way) dont believe that helping American travelers is on their "to do list." --- regardless of what the US govt has mandated....

I just wouldnt rely on consulate services overseas. My advice is go "prepared" and dont expect help from the USA once you leave it.
Another thing to keep in mind is that when going to an embassy you RARELY will deal w/ and American. The people that are hired to deal with this are locals. If the people inside the building dont FEEL like its their job to help you ---- ummmmm.....good luck.

Last and most definitely least is:

I was at the US Embassy in Cairo once getting extra pages for my passport (and it actually worked out alright for me --- but who knows what happened to the next guy) and some American dude walked up to the window and said "Hi, my name is John Wagner and I am an American citizen. I just wanted to stop in and let you know Ill be in Egypt for about 3 months."

Classic. I think he expected confetti and balloons to drop from the ceiling and free drinks all around.

Cheers.
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Old Mar 15, 2008, 2:17 am
  #42  
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There are some countries that require a certain number of BLANK pages be available too. I have filled up 46 of 48 pages and with plans to go to South Africa, was told by Embassy they want 6 blanks to enter!
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Old Mar 15, 2008, 2:55 am
  #43  
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Originally Posted by HangingOver
I was at the US Embassy in Cairo once getting extra pages for my passport (and it actually worked out alright for me --- but who knows what happened to the next guy) and some American dude walked up to the window and said "Hi, my name is John Wagner and I am an American citizen. I just wanted to stop in and let you know Ill be in Egypt for about 3 months."

Classic. I think he expected confetti and balloons to drop from the ceiling and free drinks all around.
Actually, travel registration is a standard consular service. One can register online or in-person.

From http://travel.state.gov/travel/tips/...tion_1186.html:
Registration at the U.S. Embassy or Consulate (in the country you are visiting) makes your presence and whereabouts known, in case it is necessary for a consular officer to contact you in an emergency. During a disaster overseas, American consular officers can assist in evacuation were that to become necessary. But they cannot assist you if they do not know where you are.

Registration is particularly important for those who plan to stay in a country longer than one month, or who will travel to:
*A country that is experiencing civil unrest, has an unstable political climate, or is undergoing a natural disaster, such as an earthquake or a hurricane.
*A country where there are no U.S. officials. In such cases, you should register at the U.S. embassy or consulate in an adjacent country, leave an itinerary with the Consular Section, ask about conditions in the country that you will visit and ask about the third country that may represent U.S. interests there.
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Old Mar 15, 2008, 3:55 am
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You would have found that story funnier had you ever been to US Embassy in Cairo. Only Egyptians work up front and the entire place was looking at him like he was insane. The service may be "standard" but I doubt many people try to take advantage of it in person. Online is the way to go. I get emails from the US embassies in several of the cities that I travel to frequently. Its good to be up on the current vibe but I dont think walking in the front of an Embassy the size of Cairo's is going to quite get you the type of attention you're looking for.

My original point was that passports are incredibly important. Make sure they are current, have plenty of empty pages, arent worn or damaged and are valid for at least 6 mo. before heading out. Expecting to deal with this kind of stuff while on the road can ruin a trip. Case in point:

I was robbed in Asuncion, so there I was in Paraguay w/o a passprt. First I was interrogated. Then I was ingnored. Then I got the run around. Then I was asked for things there was no way I would have. Then I was interrogated again. It dragged on for days and days. It was an unbelievable hassel and a total nightmare. The people I spoke to there didnt seem to care that I was an American citizen, and didnt seem to care I had to get back to the US.

at one point:

me: I dont understand why I am not receiving more help here

he: We are not here to assist American travelers in South America

me: Why are you here then?

he: We are here to look after the interest of the American govt and American businesses located here.

I eventually got what I needed but it was miserable. I am not trying to say that all embassies and counsulates are out to screw Americans. I am just saying that it can be a very unpleasant experience.

Whew....why am I writing all this? I dont even care this much!
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Old Mar 15, 2008, 7:44 am
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by EchoVictor
FYI, you can get your passport renewed and completely reissued in Manhattan in about 2-3 hours. Cost is $120 which is only $60 more than normal. Federal building at West Houston & Hudson.
I did this in Boston in 2003. I had my new Passport issued on Feb 13th around 4:00pm, I was on a 7:00pm flight from BOS to LHR.

I did get questioned by Immigrations at LHR on why my passport was less than 24hrs old, weird question. I answered something like I had a sudden urge for a Cadbury Crunchie Bar, the agent laughed and I was on my way.

Just the other day I had a colleague in Canada, with a British Passport, call me about his expired passport and the need to travel to the US. He found a solution, but watching your expiration date is important. I just wrote about this the other day on my blog for traveling photographers
http://flyingwithfish.blogspot.com/2...nt-paying.html

Last edited by sefrischling; Mar 15, 2008 at 7:59 am
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