Aborted landings. How common are pull-ups?
#46
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: ATL
Programs: DL GM,2MM [3.37TMM]
Posts: 305
My worst was a DL 3-holer every seat full, landing at ATL at night - we slammed the runway so hard that we bounced maybe 30 feet back up - whereupon the cockpit firewalled it and we staggered - literally staggered up - sucking up the gear and landing flaps and went around. The cabin was full of teenagers - sports teams of some sort - and there was a lot of yelling and screaming while we were climbing.
When we finally deplaned, the cockpit was not standing at the door saying "bu-bye"
#47
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Programs: UA 1KMM, HH-Diamond, Marriott-Gold, Hertz 5*
Posts: 458
250kts is the maximum speed allowed below 10,000', it is not an approach speed. No airliner flies it's final approach at anything anywhere near 250kts. An MD80 with a complete flaps/slats failure would fly final at around 190kts.
The ground speed is higher landing at a high-elevation airport because of the lower density of the air. The airspeed is the same as at lower-elevation airports but that same 140kts, for example, produces a higher ground speed at higher-elevation airports. 140kts at sea-level would be 154kts at 5,500'.
The ground speed is higher landing at a high-elevation airport because of the lower density of the air. The airspeed is the same as at lower-elevation airports but that same 140kts, for example, produces a higher ground speed at higher-elevation airports. 140kts at sea-level would be 154kts at 5,500'.
That would really be scary!
#49
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: LON, RUH and DXB
Programs: BA Bronze, GF, EK, WY
Posts: 2,607
Zero aborted landings in 50+ segs in the last 6 months, but colleagues had an "aborted" take-off last week on KL AMS-LHR. Captain thought he might have grounded the tail, so flew around for 45 mins to burn off fuel then landed back in Schiphol. They got an overnight hotel - hopefully with a free drink to calm the nerves.
I assume 737s can't dump fuel - or the North Sea is too busy with shipping ...
I assume 737s can't dump fuel - or the North Sea is too busy with shipping ...
#52
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Seattle, WA, USA
Posts: 2,009
I've only had one landing where the wheels were on the ground before we took off again. It was probably a 737 into BLI with a 6700 ft runway. We were about wheels down when there was wind sheer that lifted the plane up a little. It just put us too far down the runway to land sucessfully. The pilot gunned it and we took off again. The second attempt we landed hard, but stayed on the ground.
I'm guessing I have flown 500-750 lifetime segments, no idea for sure. Other than that one I have had one or two go arounds, but never where we were fully engaged in the landing attempt.
I'm guessing I have flown 500-750 lifetime segments, no idea for sure. Other than that one I have had one or two go arounds, but never where we were fully engaged in the landing attempt.
#53
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: BNA
Programs: HH Gold. (Former) UA PP, DL PM, PC Plat
Posts: 8,133
I assume 737s can't dump fuel - or the North Sea is too busy with shipping ...
#54
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: SZG, Austria
Programs: LH(OS) HON, IC RA
Posts: 33,194
In my last 7 years of flying I had only 2 aborted landing. One was because of bad weather conditions, another one was because the runway was blocked by a landing airplane before us.
#55
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 254
The latter example is the most typical, and it's usually a case of misjudgment in the relative speeds between two landing aircraft, or the aircraft on the ground taking just a little too long exiting the runway. The tower controller can direct the landing aircraft to "go around" or the pilot can unilaterally make the decision.
A bad weather go-around due to visibility or ceiling in the US is rare, and in theory due to regs, should never happen. Part 121 (scheduled air service, i.e. airlines) operations have very strict conditions under which they can even attempt an instrument approach. Part 91 (private, non-scheduled, non-revenue generating flights) are allowed to attempt any approach under which they are qualified, and therefore may "have a look" at the conditions at the end of the approach. I can't speak to the JAA/CAA regs or those in other parts of the world.
Winds would be an example of weather causing a go-around.
#56
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 254
If the voices are a little shaky, its because when we do a go-around, its all elbows and @ssholes in the cockpit. Even though we train every year to do a go-around, it is still an abnormal condtion and things become very hurried. So if you hear a shaky voice its because we (the capt or the f/o) remembered to pick up the mike and say something over the PA, not because we a scared
Airline flying is very professional, and the rigorous approach to training is why these operations are both rare and not often-reported on.
In the private-flying world, go-arounds aren't practiced enough. The operation can throw off a pilot's routine and cause him to miss a checklist item as he prepares for the next landing. In a complex aircraft, this can be a serious issue.
#57
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 355
Once had 2 in one day trying to fly into BRW due to limited visibility as the fog was rolling in off of the Arctic Ocean. Close enough to the ground to see the cracks in the runway number paint as we blew past them coming from the south. And close enough to see the individual waves hitting the breakwater coming in from the north.
Also a three-attempt day flying into JNU. A few other places too, but I've lost track.
Also a three-attempt day flying into JNU. A few other places too, but I've lost track.
Last edited by seat17D; Mar 10, 2007 at 12:11 am
#58
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: PHX
Programs: AS MVP, HH Diamond
Posts: 3,259
#59
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dumaguete/Philippines
Programs: PPS Krisflyer, Miles and More
Posts: 59
In my career as a Flight Attendant I had only about 3 aborted landings with Swissair.
But later, on a vacation in the Philippines, I had two scary ones in a row. During a typhoon in Manila, the captain made 2 go-arounds and I was really scared the first time in a plane. How many times you read that a plane crashes during bad weather after trying to land 2 times and the 3rd try was the crash. I think he just had to bring that plane to the ground as he probably had not enough fuel left to try again. The runway was full of water and it splashed like a waterfall while landing. He could stop that plane about 20 metres before the end of the runway...
But later, on a vacation in the Philippines, I had two scary ones in a row. During a typhoon in Manila, the captain made 2 go-arounds and I was really scared the first time in a plane. How many times you read that a plane crashes during bad weather after trying to land 2 times and the 3rd try was the crash. I think he just had to bring that plane to the ground as he probably had not enough fuel left to try again. The runway was full of water and it splashed like a waterfall while landing. He could stop that plane about 20 metres before the end of the runway...
#60
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: YYZ
Programs: BA Gold/Marriott Gold/HH Diamond/IC Plat Amba
Posts: 5,979
I've been on 9 flights that I can recall over the last 25 years that aborted landings. 6 at YYZ all because of either another plane still on runway in front of us or because of birds(geese) being hit by another plane on it's takeoff and the maintenance crews had to go clean up their remains off the runway. Best one of these was on a BA 747 when we were almost on the ground when the pilot just gunned the engines and we went round(the thrust was amazing ,much more noticeable than on a conventional takeoff). 1 at MAN on a 737 due to wind shear and that was scary the way the plane was being tossed around prior to aborting. The other 2 have been at LHR due to another plane still on the runway and PIT for the same reason.