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Old Sep 30, 06, 10:15 pm   #1
 
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Recliner Blocker

I recently saw an ad for a little piece of plastic designed to surreptitiously slip over or somehow attach to the recliner mechansim of the far-to-close 3rd class seat ahead of you. The passenger struggles to recline---to no avail. FA cannot help. He resigns himself to sitting upright in a "broken" seat for the next 6 hours. So now you can eat you dinner instead of wearing it. And even read the newspaper. Selfish, illegal and rude? Has anyone had an encounter with this device?
An aside. I know the airlines need every dime of revenue they can squeeze from a flyer. Cutting out 20% of coach seats to install bigger seats with greater pitch and recline would show that airlines do care about comfort and safety. But that immediately puts them at a disadvantage with competitors. Solution. A law modeled on Cruelty to Animals legislation could make it mandatory for any passenger plane travelling in American airspace to provide minimum space requirements to all humans on board. Because the law would apply to all airlines no one rogue carrier could cheat. I know this idea is simplistic and there must be a ready rebuttal but I don't what it is.
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Old Sep 30, 06, 10:47 pm   #2
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The seat blocker is banned on most airlines and the flight attendants have been trained to spot them. Use one on my seat and your $12 toy will end up in the trash and my seat will be reclined at all times, including the meal.

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Old Oct 1, 06, 2:15 am   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon888
Cutting out 20% of coach seats to install bigger seats with greater pitch and recline would show that airlines do care about comfort and safety.
That could be done right now, with a corresponding increase in fares to make up for the lost seats. Are you willing to pay more for every trip you take?
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Old Oct 1, 06, 2:25 am   #4
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Tired of the plane seat in front of you bang your knee?
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Old Oct 1, 06, 4:51 am   #5
 
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It is called the knee defender. http://www.kneedefender.com/

Works great against "recline-holes". If you get caught, there are plenty of other ways to make life miserable for the offending party.
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Old Oct 1, 06, 9:03 am   #6
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Airlines should make left side of the plane no reclining seats, right and center seats can recline.

This way, people like me who hate people who recline, and don't do it unless nobody is behind me can sit in peace and quiet.
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Old Oct 1, 06, 5:07 pm   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom911
That could be done right now, with a corresponding increase in fares to make up for the lost seats. Are you willing to pay more for every trip you take?
Admittedly the cost aspect is the primary arguement against humane treatment of coach passengers. I suspect (as a newbe here) that most members are business class and very experienced travellers. Through good fortune and some luck I have tasted the forbidden fruit of the business class. Wow, big comfy seats with lots of gadgets to entertain me and food, real food. Oh, wine as well. Sleeping is easy. When I compare my first experience in long distance coach travel to business class I realize there is no comparison---only contrast. Go back to 1978 and picture yourself on that famous carrier, Trans International Airlines "TIA" going from San Fran to Hong Kong. Cramped tiny seats, overhead luggage containers preloaded prior to boarding with someone extra bags. No toilet paper 2 hours into flight and no toilets at all after 3 hours.
Leave your seat for a few minutes and the oblivious elderly lady next to you has filled your foot space with a twine-tied cardboard box. Reclining is impossible (and this before the 'knee defender'). A landing in Alaska so hard it could be considered a controlled crash. But I digress.
Since then conditions have improved but the comfort level of coach is still scandelous. And even dangerous--think DVT.
AS a lay person and not as a business type or economist I look at the issue this way. You have revenue and expenses. Revenue must always be greater to stay in business. The only exception to this rule is the government. So if I cut out 20% of coach seats I have a loss of revenue. Bad.
I must cut costs or increase revenue or both. Lets cut out meals, snacks, beverages, earphone pillows, blankets, and newspapers. Charge extra for heavy bags and make sure there is no chance to weigh your bag prior to check-in. Charge a premium for passengers who are larger than normal based on body weight and size statistics from 1955. Dramatically increase the fines and penalties against passengers who are 5 minutes late of the 90 minute check-in because they got stuck in security. Deny boarding and sell your paid seat to a standby.
But what is really practical? Increase the fare price of a coach seat and let the market take care of the problem. Remember if all airlines are forced to provide minimum standards of comfort then none of them can complain of being disadvantaged. They are all in the same boat (or plane). People will pay more. Look at what happened with gas prices recently. Gasoline can go to $5 a gallon and people will still drive their Lincoln Navigator. Remember when smokers said:" When it goes to $1 a pack I'm quitting!"
Now here is the really controversial suggestion. Give me a minute to put on my flame proof coveralls and pre-apologise to those affected. Increase the price of business class tickets. After all most of them are paid, not by the passenger but by the employer or other corporate entity that is claiming a tax deduction. BTW if it were federal law that executives of all publicly held airlines were required to travel only by coach on any airline you would see an immediate change in attitude on their part. Yes I would pay more for a bigger, better coach seat.
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Old Oct 1, 06, 9:07 pm   #8
 
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Airline seats are, if anything, more roomy than seats on many other modes of medium and long-distance mass transit. Has anyone around here ever Gone Greyhound? I haven't measured, but bus seats seem smaller, closer together with less recline than airline seats. They don't seem as comfortable, either, yet thousands travel 6, 10 or even 12+ hours on them each day.

Airlines offer two classes for those who want to pay more for more room and more amenities, so there's an option available for those who would like it. Most people would rather pay less for less room. The airlines configure their planes based on market demand.

At least in the case of single-class airlines, the executives do enjoy the same level of comfort as their customers.

There are as many or more families of four trying to make it to their destination and paying out of pocket as business travelers with employers or clients picking up the tab. Even a $50 increase in ticket prices adds up to $200 for four seats. That's a lot for most people. Half that would be a deal breaker for many.

Just my two pennies (or 8 for four seats)
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Old Oct 2, 06, 12:20 pm   #9
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragon888
Admittedly the cost aspect is the primary arguement against humane treatment of coach passengers.
...[snip]...
I must cut costs or increase revenue or both. Lets cut out meals, snacks, beverages, earphone pillows, blankets, and newspapers. Charge extra for heavy bags and make sure there is no chance to weigh your bag prior to check-in. Charge a premium for passengers who are larger than normal based on body weight and size statistics from 1955. Dramatically increase the fines and penalties against passengers who are 5 minutes late of the 90 minute check-in because they got stuck in security. Deny boarding and sell your paid seat to a standby.
Aren't they doing a lot of that already?
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Old Oct 2, 06, 12:38 pm   #10
 
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Airborne pay toiets

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajalan
Aren't they doing a lot of that already?
They could do more. Today and here in this forum I am starting the rumour that the toilets in coach are being fitted with coin mechanisms. Expected revenue is $400 on a flight of less than 3 hours. Occupancy times are limited to 3 minutes after which the door automatically unlocks. Under the standing rules of journalism this completely groundless urban legend becomes a "true story" if re-posted on other forums more than 3 times.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 1:18 pm   #11
 
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As this isn't truly travel tech I'm moving it to TravelBuzz.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 2:06 pm   #12
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Recline-holes? I like the phrase drama queen much more and it is applicable to your reaction. Your seat reclines too. If you want the space back then recline yours. Otherwise, find an airline that doesn't have reclining seats, walk or get the bus. You don't HAVE to fly. People who want to take advantage of the options of their seat are free to do so. Your ticket does NOT rent the space around you. It gives you the right to sit in a certain seat. Any whining about people moving their seats back is just childish.

I've flow coach plenty and it isn't that disruptive. I've been able to eat meals just fine. From the way you hear people talk on FT sometimes you'd swear that they tearing ACL's from the damage.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 2:14 pm   #13
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Oh, come on, I got a little chuckle out of "recline-hole".

cordelli's idea is a great one, BTW. A choice for reclining or non-reclining seats sounds like a great way to defuse this long-standing argument.

As for the Knee Defender, that thing has been around for a few years and made enough of a run in the mainstream media that most airlines took notice and specifically banned it. Although I think the tool was an interesting idea, I don't think I'd personally have the stones to use it.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 2:21 pm   #14
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pinniped
Oh, come on, I got a little chuckle out of "recline-hole".
Don't forget "shade-hole" - the person who refuses to lower their shade even after the FA's request it during movie time.

Also, "express-hole" - person in the grocery store express checkout line with 50 items.

I never fly coach anymore unless it is a short LGW-AMS hop and then I have enough status to get bulkhead seats. I have had too much dandruff fall in my food to deal with recline-holes anymore.
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Old Oct 2, 06, 2:56 pm   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibison
I have had too much dandruff fall in my food to deal with recline-holes anymore.
OMG! Where is that puking emoticon?

But I'm with planemechanic....
If the jacka$$ behind me uses one of those, I'm calling the FA who'll most likely confiscate it (or at least should) and I'm gonna recline fully for EVERY possible minute during the flight even though I don't normally recline much at all - just out of spite.

That might seem petty but I'm sure a lot of people use those knee defenders on the seat in front of them and then recline themselves.
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