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Risk of buying $1 DVDs in China?

Risk of buying $1 DVDs in China?

Old Jul 29, 2004, 9:33 am
  #1  
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Risk of buying $1 DVDs in China?

Hi, All,

My brother's currently in China for a few weeks and picked up about 15 bootleg DVD's at $1 each. Is he likely to encounter any trouble with US Customs? Should he declare explicitly on the Customs form, or leave them off? He'll also be shipping a globe home separately, should he include them with that instead?

Thanks!

Bill
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 9:46 am
  #2  
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I have imported bunches of $1 DVDs from China and Viet Nam without any trouble. Customs generally allows one per title (multiples is another story - as it makes one look like a reseller and not a tourist). I just list the dollar value on my declaration form; don't the instructions on the back say to list items only if they exceed the allowance?

Of course your brother knows that they won't work on a Region 1 DVD player, right? Gotta have a multi-region player to watch those.
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 10:07 am
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Thumbs up should be OK

I got a whole bunch in Shanghai. All DVDs worked fine for me (region 1 dvd player). ^ Some of the newer movies were recorded from a movie theater and the sound was a little bad. The older movies should be fine.

If your brother is shipping a globe back to the States anyway, why doesn't he just throw the DVDs in there. The DVDs won't make it that much heavier.
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 10:11 am
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Hi Bill - I brought about 50 DVD's back from China last year without any problem so your brother should be fine. One thing to keep in mind is that regardless of what the packaging on the DVD says you may or may not get the same thing inside! e.g. one of the movies (Chicago, I believe) was dubbed with a different movies sound track, another (Jackie Chan's medallion) was in still in Chinese with English sub-titles but the sub-titles were not from the movie we were trying to watch (It looked like the sub-titles belonged to Pirates of the Caribbean quite funny overall although a tad annoying - then again what do you expect for a buck a piece! :-)
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 11:46 am
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I used to get excited about bootleg DVD's from China, but eventually realized they're a complete waste of money.

The packaging is often inaccurate. The quality is typically roughly equivalent to VHS at best (and all too often is camcorder-in-the-theater). US movies are usually region 1 or no-region, but movies from other parts of the world (especially Europe) are often encoded for other regions or sometimes even PAL (most Chinese DVD players are multiregion and tv's are dual-system PAL/NTSC).

And I can't tell you how many bootleg DVDs I've seen that stopped working 10 minutes before the movie ended.

When I lived in China, it wasn't such a problem, because many of the local bootleggers would accept returns of defective discs (seriously). But when you're buying in bulk to return to the U.S., odds are you're going to get a lot of crappy ones, which increases the price-per-workable-disc quite a bit.

For my money, I'd rather pay $2 and rent DVD's at my local video store. If they don't work I can get my money back, and the picture and sound are actually DVD quality. Plus I'm supporting local small business instead of international pirates.

But if you insist on bringing some bootlegs back, you probably won't have a problem as long as you aren't bringing multiples of the same title. I wouldn't ship them, though, and keep in mind that they're really not legal.
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 3:03 pm
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Why don't you just go to your local video store and steal the DVD's instead? Purchasing a bootleg version is exactly the same, the people who made the movie don't get a dime either way. Seems it would be much more efficient then traveling all the way to China to steal the movies.
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 3:05 pm
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Do you do those sappy commercials before the previews start too? I bought a couple of DVD's in Beijing, but they are the wrong region, even though they were labeled for North America. I do not advise buying DVD's in China. Also, the CD's are of particularly poor quality.

Originally Posted by CG
Why don't you just go to your local video store and steal the DVD's instead? Purchasing a bootleg version is exactly the same, the people who made the movie don't get a dime either way. Seems it would be much more efficient then traveling all the way to China to steal the movies.
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 3:07 pm
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Originally Posted by CG
Why don't you just go to your local video store and steal the DVD's instead? Purchasing a bootleg version is exactly the same, the people who made the movie don't get a dime either way. Seems it would be much more efficient then traveling all the way to China to steal the movies.
My thoughts exactly. Why ever would you think it OK to buy bootleg movies?
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 3:29 pm
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Originally Posted by CG
Why don't you just go to your local video store and steal the DVD's instead? Purchasing a bootleg version is exactly the same, the people who made the movie don't get a dime either way. Seems it would be much more efficient then traveling all the way to China to steal the movies.
Bad analogy. Assuming you're referring to a truly "local" video store and not Blockbuster, if you steal, the store loses both the sunk cost of the disc and the associated potential revenue stream. And if they choose to replace the disc, the movie company actually _makes_ money (while the store loses even more).

Buying a bootleg may deprive the movie producers (and actors with a revenue-sharing agreement) of revenue they _might_ have earned if you'd paid to see the movie in a legit fashion. But it also supports the hard-working DVD pirates who produce the actual physical disc (and may have added value like subtitles).

A better analogy would be paying a third party to steal the disc from Blockbuster. Blockbuster stores don't own the DVDs (the movie studios do), so the store suffers less damage from the theft, and the thief makes a buck. But even then, there's a cost of reproducing the physical good of the disc, not just the content.

That said, I am certainly not an advocate of buying pirated DVDs. In China, people do so for a variety of reasons. Many good movies are still at least nominally banned--unavailable through official channels. Or they are unavailable with Chinese subtitles (value added by the pirates). And the $15 pricetag of a "cheap" DVD in the US is equivalent to a week's salary for many Chinese.

Here we have the luxury of freedom of speech and press, of relatively good rental networks, and of having the cash in the first place to help support the "artists" in Hollywood who make the movies.

I'm not an advocate of piracy. As stated above, I think it's stupid to buy bootleg DVDs not just because it's illegal, but because you don't get your money's worth. But to say that buying a bootleg is tantamount to stealing from my neighborhood store... Maybe I just like to nitpick.
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 3:38 pm
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Knowingly buying stolen merchandise is theft. Senator Breaux gave a speech at a DNC event in which he condemned exactly this type of behavior the other day.

The work product of artists -- whether painters or actors or musicians or novelists -- should not be stolen simply because thieves have thought up new methods of stealing.

Last edited by fastflyer; Jul 29, 2004 at 3:40 pm
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 4:39 pm
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Originally Posted by fastflyer
The work product of artists -- whether painters or actors or musicians or novelists -- should not be stolen simply because thieves have thought up new methods of stealing.
"Intellectual Property" is a very new concept and is not the same as Property. We invented a system for rewarding creativity that was abstractly designed to resemble physical property law. But it's not the same thing, because when you copy a movie you are making a copy, not stealing the original.

I agree that Intellectual Property has value and shouldn't be abolished entirely. But new technology calls for new ways of thinking about the world. When VCRs first hit the market, Hollywood threw a tantrum and tried to make them illegal. The Supreme Court had to stand up and say they were okay. Today Hollywood makes a fortune off of DVDs and VHS that wouldn't exist if their idea of what was "theirs" to control had prevailed.

Art adapts. The world adapts. And if senators' campaign contributions came from the artists instead of the distributors, we wouldn't have laws like the Mickey Mouse Protection Act, the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, or the proposed Inducing Infringement Act.

Again, I don't advocate theft (and I especially discourage wasting your money on bootleg DVDs). But I do advocate thinking about these issues before making conclusions about them.
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 5:17 pm
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Interestingly enough, the US Customs Service _permits_ individuals to bring in counterfeit DVDs. From the US Customs Service website (http://www.cbp.gov/xp/cgov/travel/le...oreu_go.xml#15):

Articles bearing marks that are counterfeit of a federally registered trademark are subject to seizure and forfeiture. Additionally, the importation of articles bearing counterfeit marks may subject an individual to a civil fine if the registered trademark has also been recorded with CBP. Articles bearing marks that are confusingly similar to a registered trademark that has also been recorded with CBP, and restricted gray market articles (goods bearing genuine marks not intended for importation into the United States and for which CBP has granted gray market protection), are subject to detention and seizure.


However, passengers arriving into the United States may be permitted an exemption and allowed to import one article of any type, which must accompany the person, bearing a counterfeit, confusingly similar or restricted gray market trademark, provided that the article is for personal use and is not for sale. This exemption may be granted not more than once every thirty days. The arriving passenger may retain one article of each type accompanying the person. For example, an arriving person who has three purses, whether each bears a different infringing trademark, or whether all three bear the same infringing trademark, is permitted only one purse. If the article imported under the personal exemption provision is sold within one year after the date of importation, the article or its value is subject to forfeiture.


In regard to copyright infringement, articles that are determined by CBP to be clearly piratical of a federally registered copyright, i.e., unauthorized articles that are substantially similar to a material protected part of a copyright, are subject to seizure. Articles that are determined to be possibly piratical may be subject to detention and possible seizure. A personal use exemption for articles for the private use of the importer and which are not for sale or distribution, similar to that described above also applies to copyrighted articles.
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 6:13 pm
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I have never bought bootleg movies/music, but for the sake of research, I borrowed a couple of concert DVDs that were bought in Shenzhen. Both are the same Hong Kong concert - Alan Tam/Hacken Lee 2003. And I compared them to the official set that I have. Here are the observations:

1. Picture Quality. Both bootleg copies are about equivalent to VCD quality, which is about half the horizontal resolution of DVD, and about the same as VHS.

2. Sound Quality. Both are crap. The DD 5.1 tracks are actually 2.0, with no signal in the other 4 channels. One set retains the DTS logo of the real thing, but when you choose "DTS" in the menu, nothing happens.

3. Compatibility. One set will play on about 3 of my 4 Region 1 NTSC DVD players. Another set only plays on one, if I remember correctly.

Conclusion - These aren't even copied from the DVD. Instead, the material is lifted out of the VCD releases, and burn onto DVD. I believe it's probably the same with many bootleg movies. Since you can buy the official VCDs in Hong Kong or elsewhere for only about US$3, I wouldn't even bother with getting the bootlegs to save US$2, and letting the bootleggers profit, and making yourself nervous/uneasy, and worry about the discs not playing.

Last edited by rkkwan; Jul 29, 2004 at 10:21 pm
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 6:49 pm
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Originally Posted by rkkwan
I have never bought bootleg movies/music, but for the sake of research, I borrowed a couple of concert DVDs that were bought in Shenzhen. Both are the same Hong Kong concert - Alan Tam/Hacken Lee 2003. And I compared them to the official set that I have. Here are the observations:

1. Picture Quality. Both bootleg copies are about equivalent to VCD quality, which is about half the horizontal resolution of DVD, and about the same as VHS.

2. Sound Quality. Both are crap. The DD 5.1 tracks are actually 2.0, with no signal in the other 4 channels. One set retains the DTS logo of the real thing, but when you choose "DTS" in the menu, nothing happens.

3. Compatibility. One set will play on about 3 of my 4 Region 1 NTSC DVD players. Another set won't play on any.

Conclusion - These aren't even copied from the DVD. Instead, the material is lifted out of the VCD releases, and burn onto DVD. I believe it's probably the same with many bootleg movies. Since you can buy the official VCDs in Hong Kong or elsewhere for only about US$3, I would even bother with getting the bootlegs to save US$2, and letting the bootleggers profit, and making yourself nervous/uneasy, and worry about the discs not playing.
I also picked up a couple of bootlegs in Shenzhen (as research -- I'm an intellectual property litigation attorney and I collect amusing knock-offs.). Specifically, I found Band of Brothers and the second Harry Potter film (this while it was still in initial release in theaters). The Band of Brothers bootleg was impeccable -- perfect transfer with all features, in a high-quality slip case printed in English and Chinese. Harry Potter was a "screener," a review/Academy copy that is distributed by the studios and flashes a "Property of Parmount Pictures" subtitle every 10 minutes or so. Again, the quality of the transfer was perfect. The slip case, however, was rather funny -- though, at first glance, it looked legitimate, it bore large blocks of English text that _looked_ like reviews but, in reality, were simply gibberish (I sent the Harry Potter DVD to Paramount's counsel).

Both DVDs played on my Region 1 DVD player, and both had a good 5.1 surround sound track. I guess you didn't go to the right store. The place where I found these was incredible -- very classy, brightly lit with hundreds of titles for sale. It didn't have the slightest feel of "back alley" to it.
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Old Jul 29, 2004, 8:23 pm
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1) As stated above, if you only have one copy of a title, no one is going to bust you.

2) To the last poster. Paramount is more than aware of the situation and has been for the last 10 years or so (VCD's before DVD's). The MPAA has offices that do nothing but monitor this.

3) DVD piracy in China is a bit different than other countries as far as the studios are concerned. You see, the Chinese government only allows ten official theatrical releases of Hollywood films each year. Therefore there is a great pentup demand among Chinese young people to see western films. That added to the fact that certain titles would never be allowed in China (like Richard Gere films) helps explain the popularity, and the "lack" of studio action.

4) Only newbies and foreign teenagers buy the absolute latest releases. Why? Because as stated above, many are DV cam versions of the films in question and are total garbage. Those that want good quality either wait until the real DVD release comes out (at which point copies are perfect), or better yet, but the DVD9 versions which are more expensive.

5) 1$ is way too much, the going rate in China is about 80 cents.

6) While the whole IP thing is a real argument, as noted above, it is not as long as its the Chinese are buying them and they stay in China. If a million copies of Kill Bill are sold in China, it has no effect whatsoever on the bottom line of the studio, because there are absolutely NO LEGAL SALES whatsoever of the film. 1) Because it is too violent for their censors, 2) Because it wouldn't make it past the quota even if it were not too violent (Studios would prefer to release safer things like Shrek 2 or Troy), and 3) due to the low real per capita income in China (appx $980 pp) they don't even bother releasing these things at real prices (yeah, there may be a store for foreign diplomats in PEK that sells them, but that is about it).

7) An interesting note. In Russia they let this stuff run loose for years and last year a couple of studios started marketing Russian version DVD's for about $4 a piece. They are grabbing huge market share. In Turkey the studios did the same thing with the VCD market. The point I am trying to make is that believe it or not this grows market share and the plan is only screwe when they are "exported".

8) Last note. many of the HK pirate discs ( Meaning HK movies, Canto-pop, etc. -DVD's, VCD's and CD's) are actually pirated with the complicity of their record companies or producers. They guys are often "connected" and conspire to knock off product in order to screw the artists and the tax man at the end of the day, much like what occurred in the US in the sixties with LP's and singles.
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